Social programming + the collapse of religion and values.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Do you know what I have witnessed....

That the World has turned very ugly and weird! Technology has a part to play in this.... PORN is rampant on the net, its all there on display and you can't ignore it for long even if you tried. I'm not saying porn is a bad thing, in fact it can help some people but there really is some evil , sadistic and weird people out there all trying to say that this is normal when in fact its the total opposite.

I dont think I need to tell you what is normal and what isnt but it seems the Agenda here is to get everyone to accept all the immoral and weird things people get up to...

Also dont know if the World is becoming more 'Evil' in a way.

Things have definately changed 'Religiously' too.... a lot more people are leaving Religion.... is this a good thing? Yes, in a way but do we really want 'Evil' ruling the World?

One other thing for me is it seems the 'Evil' conspirators of the World want everyone working until they drop dead.... earning more cash for those at the top! 7/24 is and was a bad idea IMO... a lot has gone downhill since this came in.... Peoples well-being, family life, long lasting relationships... its all gone downhill

sk0rpi0n

@ mOjOm.... couldn't the changes be attributed also to the increase of information,

Then what is the 'source' of the information that gets broadcasted to the masses? And WHO is in charge of moderating that information... that apparently causes people to change their views to adopt strange new ones ? Were they elected by the public to receive the power they happen to wield over the quality of information? Or have Americans allowed unelected powers to rewrite the norms of their societies?

edit on 12-2-2014 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

I'm not going to read this whole thread, but I think you are very perceptive.

Clearly, you see the same patterns that I do.

There are some who attribute this to a purposeful infiltration by communists. Breaking down the family and destroying our faith in order to degrade two of those things that made us strong and unified and resolute as a people were to be part of the means of destroying us internally.

I personally think it's part of the tools to wear us down and destroy our independent spirit so that we'll accept the coming NWO. If they can isolate us, destroy or families, our neighborhoods, and our faith communities, then we have only one place left to turn - to the government. When that happens, they own us.

That so many see these things as signs of liberation rather than degredation ... well, it's sad. And, yes, technology does help it spread. So many think that because we can look up anything it makes us somehow smarter, but actually when you can look anything you want up, it makes you lazy. Looking something up doesn't make you smarter. You don't learn anything from it because you don't have to. All that information is just lying there waiting for you to pick it up so you never internalize it and own it ... really learn it. So many young, dumb idiots walking around with smartphones and empty heads thinking they are so much more evolved than those bronze age shepherds who had to know how to live off the land and couldn't just look it up ... Truly amazing when you think about.

The holy books predict this decline.

Nothing new under the sun.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


families, religion, social institutions are not dissolving under the weight of natural processes. they are being systematically destroyed.
there were abuses, inconsistencies, and corruption in the old order. this allowed an opening for ideas coalescing around the philosophy of nietzsche. these ideas were explored by some, and exploited by others. they developed into ideas for building a new world, from the ground up. in order to build their utopia, all of the old institutions must go. they have unlimited money-they control the central banks. with that power they have promised anyone and everyone something to sit at the big table when the time comes. they have bought the education system. grants, fellowships, endowments. with that, they gained control of the future generations and turned who would have been the guardians of the past into its destroyers. with their money they have bought governments. with their money they have bought the media.the funny thing is the new world they are promising, is really just a big leap back to the old world of feudalism. when they finally take over overtly, vast armies of malcontents will find they were nothing but stooges and useful idiots. and the uncomfortable morality that was imposed by social institutions will be seen as gentle guidance compared to the murderous tyranny to come. that is for those still left capable of independent critical thinking. want to know the intended future? just turn to huxleys "brave new world"

sk0rpi0n
To add to the OP, one way this mysterious ''programming'' has manifested in would be the general mass outrage that is voiced against countries that have strict laws against homosexuality, for example Iran and Russia. You wouldn't want the Iranians telling you how to live, so on what basis can you object to how Iranians run their country? And consider the recent demonizing of Vladmir Putin and calls to boycott the Sochi games because of Russian laws to curb homosexuality. Again the Russians are only running their country by their laws that they deem fit for their society. So why do people start parroting injected ''values'' onto others.

Just as the masses have no business telling others how to run their respective countries, so too should the christians not force their beliefs on others. And since you bring it up, who's to say these so called christians aren't the ones who are programmed?

reply to post by robobbob


I agree, these changes happen slowly like erosion, hard to notice, especially when you are busy making ends meet or should I say serving the bank (not all but many). In addition, all the perceptual beacons of flashing liquid crystals or LED lights, delicious "natural flavors", new car smells or communication devices are distracting us, keeping our attention focused on him, her, it, that, this all more deserving than the other, competing for your sense of touch, smell, taste, sight and your minds; your souls.

This way of living in a way was allowed and made possible by lending money......at a small price. Usury is at large the enabler which gave birth to the middle class, to give a chance for those who didn't have the means. However, those who enable are sly and have convinced us that it is the moral thing to do in a society. That all we see today is the proof that lending money at interest is what caused the apogee of our existence.

The only living documents that oppose usury are............

The holy books.

Wonder why they want those gone?
Those who say that these books are made by us to control us don't see that the very vehicle you claim is freeing you from the previous one is even more controlling. Once upon a time, it seems that having a soul carried a moral price, now it carries a monetary value. Which would you prefer?

reply to post by DexteramLucifer


I don't think anyone said they weren't. Ever watch The Book of Eli? There's some truth there. The Bible is the Bible. The truths in it are the truths. The only thing that changes around it are the intentions of those who would use it.

Seed76
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

If the collapse of religion and age-old traditional values did not occur by accident, then it would have had to have been achieved by mysterious forces working behind the scenes to program the masses into accepting strange new ideas. If so, then who or what is it? And what do they stand to gain from rewriting social norms and diminishing religion? Could it all be a decoy to take attention away from somthing far more sinister?

I wouldn´t say sinister. But in a Technological advanced and progressive society, religion has no place. Simple as that. It started slowly, and today reached to a point were those people who believe in God are labeled from media more often as "Backwards", "Mentally Ill", "Unscientific", "Illogical" etc.

Also i would like to add that, in my opinion those labels on religious people have lead many to abandon their religion. But this is another thema for another thread.

Peace

edit on 12-2-2014 by Seed76 because: (no reason given)

Science have a blind spot when it comes to telepathy, intention manifestation (like Reiki), spiritual practices, effects of meditation/prayer/signing on the consciousness. I will not reject a religious boxed view that most abrahamic religious priest preach to me, for a boxed view of science. My problem with man made religions is not that I do not believe that god do not exists. My problem is that I think the people preaching are miss representing god and deviating from the golden rule.

Seed76
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

If the collapse of religion and age-old traditional values did not occur by accident, then it would have had to have been achieved by mysterious forces working behind the scenes to program the masses into accepting strange new ideas. If so, then who or what is it? And what do they stand to gain from rewriting social norms and diminishing religion? Could it all be a decoy to take attention away from somthing far more sinister?

I wouldn´t say sinister. But in a Technological advanced and progressive society, religion has no place. Simple as that. It started slowly, and today reached to a point were those people who believe in God are labeled from media more often as "Backwards", "Mentally Ill", "Unscientific", "Illogical" etc.

Also i would like to add that, in my opinion those labels on religious people have lead many to abandon their religion. But this is another thema for another thread.

Peace

edit on 12-2-2014 by Seed76 because: (no reason given)

And I would say this is merely an opinion.

I'm not sure why technology makes religion unnecessary. Does your iPad tell you the meaning of life or give you a reason why you are here? IMO, it's the answering of these philosophical questions that give religion its value and place. Science certainly can't address those anymore than it can prove or disprove the existence of God.

When I want to know how something works on any level. I go to a scientist.

When I want to know why something is ... I go to religion.

reply to post by ketsuko


I like the sound of that. Makes sense.

ketsuko
reply to post by DexteramLucifer

 

I don't think anyone said they weren't. Ever watch The Book of Eli? There's some truth there. The Bible is the Bible. The truths in it are the truths. The only thing that changes around it are the intentions of those who would use it.

Yes I've seen that movie but that's just it ketsuko, those are your truths and anyone else's who chooses to believe them, not mine. And yes, every time christians claim their book and their god to be the absolute truth they say anyone who contradicts them is being programmed by the Devil to turn from god or just outright calls them a godless heathen or some other meaningless tripe. That is why I ask is it not really the christians who are programmed (to believe in god) and everyone else is just getting the blame for their view on life not playing out the way they thought it would.

reply to post by ketsuko

The Bible is the Bible. The truths in it are the truths.

As it's been pointed out the OP is a Muslim. So lets look at that position.

The Quran is the Quran. The truths in it are the truths.

Why should we believe the Bible over the Quran when all either of your groups do is this...

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


There are a few things in both those books that are held in common.

Yes I've seen that movie but that's just it ketsuko, those are your truths and anyone else's who chooses to believe them, not mine. And yes, every time christians claim their book and their god to be the absolute truth they say anyone who contradicts them is being programmed by the Devil to turn from god or just outright calls them a godless heathen or some other meaningless tripe.

Interesting. Have I done that?

Also, I'm not sure you got my point in referencing Eli. I was referring to how people attempted to build systems around the book to suit themselves. The book itself did not change, never changed. It was what it was. It was the people around it who attempted to use it to suit themselves.

In other words, the message is there. What will you or anyone else make of it? Some will see the beauty and truth inherent in it. Others will see a means to gain power. Still others see something they hate or resent and spend all their lives fighting against apparently.

That is why I ask is it not really the christians who are programmed (to believe in god) and everyone else is just getting the blame for their view on life not playing out the way they thought it would.

edit on 12-2-2014 by DexteramLucifer because: changed a few words

Considering that it is far more common for a human being to believe in some kind of faith than it is for a human being to believe in nothing ... I would argue that it seems faith is the more likely default than absence of faith.

It even takes faith to be an atheist since you have to have faith that eventually it will be proven that there is, in fact, no God or deity of any kind. Therefore, you must also believe in something that takes faith.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

1) To say that it is a fact that most atheists were formerly religious is unquantifiable and thus not factual

Honestly not sure the polls are even necessary.

It should be common sense. The majority of the nation is Christian. Therefore the majority of parents are Christians. It's not a big leap to think a large percentage of Atheists/Nonreligious would have been raised by those Christian parents. You had to convolute that point to say they didn't really ever believe. That's definitely undermining the power of indoctrination of children. You should familiarize yourself with that. It's religion's best weapon.

All that said. The original point was that Christian minds are being changed to non-belief. That's what you said wasn't happening. How many do I need to demonstrate that's in error?

Here is a great video of a prominent atheist who was an evangelical preacher for 19 years. He's not Christopher Hitchens but he's pretty awesome. He even talks about preachers who are closet atheists that still preach! O_O

2) In order to properly discuss the OP we should define if morality is relativistic or absolute

I can't help but think what you really mean to say is.

Objective morality is true. It's true because god exists. We know what that morality is because we have the Bible.

For one we don't have proof of god's existence therefor no proof for that objective morality. Lets not get ahead of ourselves on that idea.

Not sure what you're asking me? Do I understand the OP's point of view if in fact objective morality exists and that morality comes from his god? Sure. That being the case his OP makes sense. Deviating from 'god's word' is a bad thing.

Fortunately we have no proof god actually despises homosexuals as many religious would want to believe.

Do I think there could be a god? Could be an objective morality? Sure I am definitely open to that. However it's quite clear the world operates under moral relativism.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Why do you feel that Christian values and Christian morality is somehow better than the current progression?

Christianity segregates, creating a barrier between believer and non-believer. By doing this, Christianity can cause a schism within families, based on gender, political stance, or sexual affiliation. Rather than teaching acceptance and community, Christianity teaches one to discriminate against his or her community. In my experience, if you're looking for a just, moral, and ethical community to join, you shouldn't look to Christianity.

Further, all of those elements you see as having been broken down (like the nuclear-family, and the no-longer closeted homosexuals) are not bad things. America is the land of freedom and individuality. Freedom to love whatever man or woman you're attracted to is freedom. Being forced to love someone against your heart's desire is not.

The nuclear-family model only makes sense in depopulated areas, where there is a need for more children. In filled-up cities and densely populated suburbs there is no need for the nuclear-family to keep popping out youngsters. What is needed are loving homes for abandoned youngsters to go to.

If those homes happen to have 2 mommies or 2 daddies, well, that's no better or worse than a home with just a mom, just a dad, or a mom and dad who don't care for the child. Homosexual couples are just as good at raising adopted children as heterosexual couples are at raising their biological ones (sometimes the homosexual couple is even better for the child).

The real problem is that you're an extremely bigoted and prejudiced individual.

What America needs is not less homosexuals and non-Christians; America needs less people like you.


~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by ketsuko

There are a few things in both those books that are held in common.

There are things within the Bible that are found in the teachings of Confucius and he was a Taoist.

What are you driving at?

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by ketsuko

 

There are a few things in both those books that are held in common.

There are things within the Bible that are found in the teachings of Confucius and he was a Taoist.

What are you driving at?

I would say that God speaks.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Just being raised in a tradition is no reason to assume that it has been internalized or even felt in a real way.

Just because someone goes and sits in a pew every Sunday is any guarantee that they are actually feeling the faith.

reply to post by ketsuko

I would say that God speaks.

The idea that god is speaking through all these books renders him rather schizophrenic considering they make contrary truth claims about reality and suggest different teachings of morality.

That logic doesn't work. Nor does the logic you posited a moment ago with the circular reasoning 'Bible is true because it's the BIble'.