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An honest question to those on the left.
page: 1share:
Each side of the political issue well knows the views of the other.
The current administration has taken us down a road that, obviously, the right disagrees with.
It's the Obama's methods that I ask you about. Do you support Obama's use of executive orders/ constitutional violations?
That is my question to you. Is there even a thought or a concern about it on your part?
Is this the "ends justify the means" and it's the "right" thing to do? Do you see no consequence down the road to these actions?
Do you support the notion that the EPA and others can make new regulations without congressional approval? I.E. apparently 80% of wood burning stoves are banned nation wide as of Jan.3 and fireplaces are the next target for banning?
Are you even aware of these issues as the "mainstream" media has, at best, minimized them?
I guess I'm looking for a deeper understanding of the right as I've seen almost lockstep support for Obama's methods, top to bottom, in the Democrat party. Do you see no collateral damage to your party by these actions?
Sorry. It started out being one question and ended up with a few more.
Any downsides or totally righteous?
The current administration has taken us down a road that, obviously, the right disagrees with.
It's the Obama's methods that I ask you about. Do you support Obama's use of executive orders/ constitutional violations?
That is my question to you. Is there even a thought or a concern about it on your part?
Is this the "ends justify the means" and it's the "right" thing to do? Do you see no consequence down the road to these actions?
Do you support the notion that the EPA and others can make new regulations without congressional approval? I.E. apparently 80% of wood burning stoves are banned nation wide as of Jan.3 and fireplaces are the next target for banning?
Are you even aware of these issues as the "mainstream" media has, at best, minimized them?
I guess I'm looking for a deeper understanding of the right as I've seen almost lockstep support for Obama's methods, top to bottom, in the Democrat party. Do you see no collateral damage to your party by these actions?
Sorry. It started out being one question and ended up with a few more.
Any downsides or totally righteous?
reply to post by nwtrucker
From another country: Obama tries to steer a country against a reluctant congress, see "Shutdown".
As the POTUS has more and more direct ways to lead the country and the legislative than for example the chancellor in Germany, I suppose he just decided to use his powers to bring even a small number of his projects on their ways without interference of his political adversaries.
From another country: Obama tries to steer a country against a reluctant congress, see "Shutdown".
As the POTUS has more and more direct ways to lead the country and the legislative than for example the chancellor in Germany, I suppose he just decided to use his powers to bring even a small number of his projects on their ways without interference of his political adversaries.
reply to post by nwtrucker
It’s a condition known as Moral Relativism and it occurs on both ends of the political spectrum. The ends justify the means. Most people don’t have a problem imposing their morality on others. Politicians exploit this weakness.
It’s a condition known as Moral Relativism and it occurs on both ends of the political spectrum. The ends justify the means. Most people don’t have a problem imposing their morality on others. Politicians exploit this weakness.
You have asked some very valid questions, It will be interesting to see the response...if there are any.
Correction, if there are any from true Obama followers.
Correction, if there are any from true Obama followers.
edit on 11-2-2014 by Battleline because: (no reason given)
reply to post by nwtrucker
Each side of the political issue well knows the views of the other.
This is where it went off the rails.
Lose the assumption which you hold closest to your heart and you will discover the path of truth.
The US political system is designed to be perfectly polarized. The lesser of two evils. You can't possibly believe that anyone agrees with everything their preferred candidate does or says even on inauguration day. If you want to group people up, try the % of people that end up regretting their votes regardless of party affiliation.
Make no mistake about this, the left/right illusion is what keeps THEM in power by dividing THE PEOPLE. Oldest tactic in the book, and centuries
later, people are still falling for this.
reply to post by InverseLookingGlass
I agree. Yet to pose this question, it requires a broad-stoke approach.
I'm looking as much for a consensus of thought on this issue in general. Much like pollsters.LOL.
At the least, thought provoking.....
I agree. Yet to pose this question, it requires a broad-stoke approach.
I'm looking as much for a consensus of thought on this issue in general. Much like pollsters.LOL.
At the least, thought provoking.....
nwtrucker
Is this the "ends justify the means" and it's the "right" thing to do?
The left say 'the ends justify the means' when it's their guy doing it.
The right say 'the ends justify the means' when it's their guy doing it.
And both sides are wrong. The checks and balances are there for a reason.
That's what I've observed from watching the talking heads on tv.
Let's see what happens on your thread ....
reply to post by poloblack
To be honest, I expected this response. Not you personally.
I consider it not germane to the topic. Frankly, I couldn't care less about the "string pullers" or the lack thereof.
In a way I'm thankful that there is an elite! Looking at the cretins running our gov'ts and corporations we need someone to run this mess....
To be honest, I expected this response. Not you personally.
I consider it not germane to the topic. Frankly, I couldn't care less about the "string pullers" or the lack thereof.
In a way I'm thankful that there is an elite! Looking at the cretins running our gov'ts and corporations we need someone to run this mess....
reply to post by ManFromEurope
Well... if a Chancellor nowadays tried to pull some of the # Obama did our streets would be burning.
Well... if a Chancellor nowadays tried to pull some of the # Obama did our streets would be burning.
While I believe in a more liberal policy I do not feel the Democrats nor the Republicans support the general population. As far as executive
orders Obama is way behind Ronald Regan on the number of executive orders each has issued. Me I hate politics and the phony
politicians that both sides cater to!
source
NWTrucker:
Do you believe our taxes should go to Banks, oil cartels and the Koch brothers?
I do not think the problem is not one party or the other but rather the system is broken. or bought.
Just last week Fox News contributor Dr. Ben Carson warned that Obama administration was “acting like the Gestapo.” Andrew Napolitano penned an opinion article for Fox News.com last month titled, “Executive order tyranny.” Napolitano concluded the article with the ominous question about Obama’s use of executive orders: ”Will this deliver us to tyranny?” Of course, a former judge like Napolitano is no doubt aware that Obama has issued fewer executive orders than any modern-day president—including Ronald Reagan. But facts don’t seem to matter when the right is playing to its base.
source
NWTrucker:
Do you believe our taxes should go to Banks, oil cartels and the Koch brothers?
I do not think the problem is not one party or the other but rather the system is broken. or bought.
reply to post by FlyersFan
I agree, both sides are culpable. Yet, never before so blatant-matter of factly, said in the State of the Union address-, the door is now wide open for a collapse of the American political system.
Is the Constitution, in general, more important than any political agenda or is it not?
Even the right's main spokesperson, Limbaugh, has oft stated, "the Constitution is not a suicide pact"....
I agree, both sides are culpable. Yet, never before so blatant-matter of factly, said in the State of the Union address-, the door is now wide open for a collapse of the American political system.
Is the Constitution, in general, more important than any political agenda or is it not?
Even the right's main spokesperson, Limbaugh, has oft stated, "the Constitution is not a suicide pact"....
seabag
reply to post by nwtrucker
It’s a condition known as Moral Relativism and it occurs on both ends of the political spectrum. The ends justify the means. Most people don’t have a problem imposing their morality on others. Politicians exploit this weakness.
Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule — and both commonly succeed, and are right...The United States has never developed an aristocracy really disinterested or an intelligentsia really intelligent. Its history is simply a record of vacillations between two gangs of frauds.
Mencken years ago.
en.wikiquote.org...
edit on 11-2-2014 by neo96 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by AlaskanDad
People are so quick to jump on the left right divide with out any thought,
The right conservative idol that is Ronald Ragaen, small government party, was responsible for the largest government overreach and stepping on our rights we have ever seen.
Funny it all came after he ran on small government, what a difference an assassination attempt makes,
Brady bill, war on drugs, some of the more destructive fascist policy, came from the right.
Left/ right, it's all the same side of the same dirty theiving treasonous back stabbers.
People who still fall for this division are marching the country to destruction.
People are so quick to jump on the left right divide with out any thought,
The right conservative idol that is Ronald Ragaen, small government party, was responsible for the largest government overreach and stepping on our rights we have ever seen.
Funny it all came after he ran on small government, what a difference an assassination attempt makes,
Brady bill, war on drugs, some of the more destructive fascist policy, came from the right.
Left/ right, it's all the same side of the same dirty theiving treasonous back stabbers.
People who still fall for this division are marching the country to destruction.
edit on 11-2-2014 by benrl because: (no reason given)
poloblack
Make no mistake about this, the left/right illusion is what keeps THEM in power by dividing THE PEOPLE. Oldest tactic in the book, and centuries later, people are still falling for this.
It's no illusion, brother. There is definitely a left and right side mentality in 'the people' and it will always be there. Some people won't take what they haven't earned ... and some are always standing there with their hands out for the freebies.
reply to post by AlaskanDad
I believe the door for the potential of a dictatorship is wider than it was before Obama.
As far as executive orders by Reagan, Hmmm, please enlighten me where Reagan issued any E.O.s that contradicted a law which he engineered, was passed by congress and signed by Himself. The current count as of a couple of days ago for Obama and the A.C.A, is sixteen...
I get your point on taxes. My purpose for this thread is the method and apparent new level that has been reached.
Taxes, corruption by both parties, so on, have been well covered in other threads. Yes, all are inter-related and it's difficult to separate all the strings, but...nevertheless, I view this latest as the most telling and damaging to date.
I LIKE to think that I'd be of a different mindset if I had "my" kind of guy in office or if I held the reins for a couple of years. BUT, I've had similar thoughts of ramming my views down others throats because I "knew best".
Perhaps we all have that impulse and perhaps that's why gridlock may be less damaging than E.O.s. as the Constitution mandates.
I believe the door for the potential of a dictatorship is wider than it was before Obama.
As far as executive orders by Reagan, Hmmm, please enlighten me where Reagan issued any E.O.s that contradicted a law which he engineered, was passed by congress and signed by Himself. The current count as of a couple of days ago for Obama and the A.C.A, is sixteen...
I get your point on taxes. My purpose for this thread is the method and apparent new level that has been reached.
Taxes, corruption by both parties, so on, have been well covered in other threads. Yes, all are inter-related and it's difficult to separate all the strings, but...nevertheless, I view this latest as the most telling and damaging to date.
I LIKE to think that I'd be of a different mindset if I had "my" kind of guy in office or if I held the reins for a couple of years. BUT, I've had similar thoughts of ramming my views down others throats because I "knew best".
Perhaps we all have that impulse and perhaps that's why gridlock may be less damaging than E.O.s. as the Constitution mandates.
OP, if you are claiming that any EO is against the Constitution, then I disagree. The Executive Order has become an important mechanism in the
administration of the Executive Branch in the last 80 years or so (i.e. the time that most of us have been alive).
As long as an EO does not abuse Constitutionally-protected rights of the People or directly negate a specific power of one of the other two Branches, I don't find those actions to be against the Constitution.
As far as your alleged "overreach" of Federal agencies, these groups are charged with enforcing our laws. Sometimes this means establishing specific regulations in line with existing legislation. When these actions are out of line, there are appropriate channels (i.e. the Judiciary) to address or redress real wrongs.
Every level of government will seek to assume more power than it is given. That is the nature of government. Any government, any where, any time. There is no split between right and left.
Of note, the sing-song about "the left" being the sole Takers and "the right" being the sole Makers is mere partisan rhetoric.
Your mileage may vary.
As long as an EO does not abuse Constitutionally-protected rights of the People or directly negate a specific power of one of the other two Branches, I don't find those actions to be against the Constitution.
As far as your alleged "overreach" of Federal agencies, these groups are charged with enforcing our laws. Sometimes this means establishing specific regulations in line with existing legislation. When these actions are out of line, there are appropriate channels (i.e. the Judiciary) to address or redress real wrongs.
Every level of government will seek to assume more power than it is given. That is the nature of government. Any government, any where, any time. There is no split between right and left.
Of note, the sing-song about "the left" being the sole Takers and "the right" being the sole Makers is mere partisan rhetoric.
Your mileage may vary.
edit on 10Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:28:20 -060014p102014266 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Snarl
If only political ideology was so simple as that, but that is a naive simplistic narrative fit for the MSM.
It could easily be said there are those who think it is there right to take what is not theirs from the rest.
And those that oppose it,
Is it businesses right to ship American jobs oversea?
Is it right for corporate America to carry a lesser tax burden while doing so?
Is it right to reap record profits off the poverty of your fellow Americans?
The left right polarization is a dangerous ignorant path walked by blind sheep lead astray by those who are to greedy and lazy to take their resposibity as citizens seriously.
I used to be a dem, than I was a rep, finally I took the blinders off and saw that neither is for our people our nation.
If only political ideology was so simple as that, but that is a naive simplistic narrative fit for the MSM.
It could easily be said there are those who think it is there right to take what is not theirs from the rest.
And those that oppose it,
Is it businesses right to ship American jobs oversea?
Is it right for corporate America to carry a lesser tax burden while doing so?
Is it right to reap record profits off the poverty of your fellow Americans?
The left right polarization is a dangerous ignorant path walked by blind sheep lead astray by those who are to greedy and lazy to take their resposibity as citizens seriously.
I used to be a dem, than I was a rep, finally I took the blinders off and saw that neither is for our people our nation.
edit on 11-2-2014 by benrl because: (no reason given)
FlyersFan
nwtrucker
Is this the "ends justify the means" and it's the "right" thing to do?
The left say 'the ends justify the means' when it's their guy doing it.
The right say 'the ends justify the means' when it's their guy doing it.
And both sides are wrong. The checks and balances are there for a reason.
That's what I've observed from watching the talking heads on tv.
Let's see what happens on your thread ....
I agree. Both sides are acting in a vaccum that they think their policies are 100% right. There is no room for accommodating the other side at all. Compromise is a dead term in Modern Politics in America.
Its as if modern politicians think they are wiser than our Founding Fathers. Our Founding Father had unlimited power, yet CHOSE to set in place things to limit that power. I seriously doubt either Modern Party would place curbs on their power. Current evidence proves me right.
reply to post by nwtrucker
I think the bigger question is should presidents have the power of executive order. Bush used them too and I didn't hear any of the blowhards decrying their use when it served their purposes.
I think the bigger question is should presidents have the power of executive order. Bush used them too and I didn't hear any of the blowhards decrying their use when it served their purposes.
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