Atlantis finally found?

AngryCymraeg

MichiganSwampBuck
Here is a link to (in my opinion) a good overall Atlantis website:

www.atlantisquest.com...

From their website . . .

There is little attempt to pursue every myth and legend (worldwide) which might relate to the lost civilization: other web sites do an excellent job of that. I have centered my efforts on presenting scientific facts from reputable sources in order to illustrate that Plato's story can be taken seriously by professionals. Scientific sources are provided throughout so that the reader may check on "controversial" material. Great care has been taken throughout to insure that all information here presented is accurate.

This is another website with an interesting theory, one I don't think I really believe, but cool to read about.

www.atlantisbolivia.org...

Here is their idea about the lost continent . . .

The lost continent of Atlantis is still there opposite the Pillars of Hercules (Strait of Gibraltar) only now it has been re-named South America. The key to the mystery of Atlantis is that Plato is describing both a large continent and a small volcanic island of the same name. Plato tells us that the continent had a large, level rectangular plain at its centre and that in the centre of the plain was the small volcanic island which later became the city of Atlantis.

edit on 12-2-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: Added last qoutes

Does it perchance explain how their main enemy was Athens?

Not sure, but I believe that the Atlantis as Bolivia website doesn't address that, but the Atlantis quest does. Like I said, I don't really go for the Bolivia theory, but it couldn't hurt if you looked into it, I did provide the links for that purpose.

reply to post by Blaine91555


ETOPO1 is an integrated land/ocean terrain model - it has both. The drawback to it is that it is only 1 arc minute in resolution, which come out to around 1800 meters between height measurements. It's going to be hard to find higher resolution bathymetry over wide areas.

reply to post by Stari


Your "building" is pretty large for a building - it's around 22 miles on a side. It's only 70 or 80 miles off the coast of Puerto Rico, though, so go have a look!

I've heard a lot of things about atlantis, it is most likely if that existed that it was in Cannaries or Azores, because those are way closer to the romans than the Caribbean, the reams simply didn't have the tech to sail high in the sea, or at least as far as we know.

Stari, you stated;

I have been studying Atlantis for over 20 years. I have proof that it was once was in the Caribbean Sea. The Dr. Little's have found the harbor where Atlantis had their main ships come in and out. But they still have not found the main area where Atlantis was located.

If you have 20 years of experience researching Atlantis, then you would or should know that when the island of Atlantis sank, it blocked the straits of Gibraltar with mud. Now how do suppose any site near the Americas would be Atlantis and be able to block the straits with mud 3000 miles away?

This is the problem with most Atlantis researchers, they don't follow what Plato wrote in the Timaeus or Critias dialogue.

Evanor1
Stari, you stated;

I have been studying Atlantis for over 20 years. I have proof that it was once was in the Caribbean Sea. The Dr. Little's have found the harbor where Atlantis had their main ships come in and out. But they still have not found the main area where Atlantis was located.

If you have 20 years of experience researching Atlantis, then you would or should know that when the island of Atlantis sank, it blocked the straits of Gibraltar with mud. Now how do suppose any site near the Americas would be Atlantis and be able to block the straits with mud 3000 miles away?

This is the problem with most Atlantis researchers, they don't follow what Plato wrote in the Timaeus or Critias dialogue.

I actually agree with that because some people believe that atlantis may have been in the pacific, now my question is how the hell latin or greek people did have access to the pacific, or the caribbean anyways.

reply to post by silveringking


silveringking asked;

I actually agree with that because some people believe that atlantis may have been in the pacific, now my question is how the hell latin or greek people did have access to the pacific, or the caribbean anyways.

The Atlanteans themselves would have sailed all over the world and would have passed on their knowledge to other cultures, especially since they also ruled Europe upto and including Italy, and Africa upto Egypt. Most cultures seem to "wake up" aroud 3000.bC with the Minoans,Egyptians,Pboenicians and Sumerians. The early Greeks aka Pelasgians seem to wake up around 2000.bC. According to Dartmouth University's Aegean studies, the Greeks were sailing through the pillars of Gibraltar in search of Tin as far as the Cassiteride islands near England around 1900.bC.

Moreover, the war between the Atlanteans and the Greeks is thought to have taken place ca.9570.bC, which reveals that they were in contact with each other and that the early Pelasgian Greeks may have known about the Pacific Ocean also. I believe they referred to it as the Erythranaen Sea, which is the Indian Ocean.

In any case, when Solon brought back the story from Egypt to Greece ca.570.bC, the Egyptian priests told him that the island of Atlantis was also the "stepping stone" to another "boundless" continent on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, sic the Americas.

Generally Ships appear on the scene around 3500.bC while boats or floating crafts are far older to around 60,000.bC. I presume that the Erythranaean Ocean or Indian Ocean was the extent of Greeks travelling either through the pillars of Hercules and following the coastline around south Africa or down the Nile to the Red Sea. Personally, I am not aware of any stories detailing the Greeks travelling to the Pacific.

Evanor1
reply to post by silveringking

 

silveringking asked;

I actually agree with that because some people believe that atlantis may have been in the pacific, now my question is how the hell latin or greek people did have access to the pacific, or the caribbean anyways.

The Atlanteans themselves would have sailed all over the world and would have passed on their knowledge to other cultures, especially since they also ruled Europe upto and including Italy, and Africa upto Egypt. Most cultures seem to "wake up" aroud 3000.bC with the Minoans,Egyptians,Pboenicians and Sumerians. The early Greeks aka Pelasgians seem to wake up around 2000.bC. According to Dartmouth University's Aegean studies, the Greeks were sailing through the pillars of Gibraltar in search of Tin as far as the Cassiteride islands near England around 1900.bC.

That would be the Phoenicians, with whom the Greeks traded for tin.

Evanor1 Moreover, the war between the Atlanteans and the Greeks is thought to have taken place ca.9570.bC, which reveals that they were in contact with each other and that the early Pelasgian Greeks may have known about the Pacific Ocean also.

Absurd, as Athens didn't even exist then.

Evanor1 I believe they referred to it as the Erythranaen Sea, which is the Indian Ocean.

Sorry, but no. The Erythraean Sea is today known as the Red Sea, and "erythra" means "red" in Greek.

Evanor1In any case, when Solon brought back the story from Egypt to Greece ca.570.bC, the Egyptian priests told him that the island of Atlantis was also the "stepping stone" to another "boundless" continent on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, sic the Americas.

There exists no evidence whatsoever that Solon brought any story at all back from Egypt.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Harte,
I'm surprised that someone as broadly knowledgeable as you are takes such a simplistic view of the early bronze age med.
The tin trade was started by the iberians, specifically the maritime bell beaker culture, they inturn took up relations with the minoans, who conveyed the products east.
Over time the minoans took control of the tin mines in Iberia and cut out the iberians by building fortified trade towns, and what appear to be military barracks, in the mining regions.
The minoans dominated the trade in the med from the mid 3rd millennium through the mid 2nd. They had been so influential in the med they had outpost in Egypt itself, and had built towns along the levantine coast and their culture
P2P infuenced the earliest caananite city states, ie the phonecians, who adopted their pottery, a version the Minoan alphabet. The minoans and their Greek client states ,the Myceneans, had influenced trade all the way into scandanavia, by both sea and continental rivers.
When the Minoan trade network collapsed it coincides with a dramatic climate shift that ushered in 400years of civil unrest ,strife , famine, failed crops and such. It was only after these "dark ages"passed that the phonecians began to fill in the void left by the disappearance of the minoans and the later Myceneans. Every where the phonecians went was following where the previous people had already been.

punkinworks10
reply to post by Harte

 

Harte,
I'm surprised that someone as broadly knowledgeable as you are takes such a simplistic view of the early bronze age med.

No need for surprise. Note the date in the post I was responding to - 1900 BC.

Greeks were not sailing to England in 1900 BC. That they may have gotten tin from Britain would be due to Phoenecians.

IIRC, the tin trade from Britain was overland anyway. To the Rhone, at least, if memory serves.

It should be noted that there is no archaeological evidence for this, by the way, and no evidence at all, not even textual, for such trade with British tribes prior to the first century BC.

Harte

Evanor1
reply to post by silveringking

 

silveringking asked;

I actually agree with that because some people believe that atlantis may have been in the pacific, now my question is how the hell latin or greek people did have access to the pacific, or the caribbean anyways.

The Atlanteans themselves would have sailed all over the world and would have passed on their knowledge to other cultures, especially since they also ruled Europe upto and including Italy, and Africa upto Egypt. Most cultures seem to "wake up" aroud 3000.bC with the Minoans,Egyptians,Pboenicians and Sumerians. The early Greeks aka Pelasgians seem to wake up around 2000.bC. According to Dartmouth University's Aegean studies, the Greeks were sailing through the pillars of Gibraltar in search of Tin as far as the Cassiteride islands near England around 1900.bC.

Moreover, the war between the Atlanteans and the Greeks is thought to have taken place ca.9570.bC, which reveals that they were in contact with each other and that the early Pelasgian Greeks may have known about the Pacific Ocean also. I believe they referred to it as the Erythranaen Sea, which is the Indian Ocean.

In any case, when Solon brought back the story from Egypt to Greece ca.570.bC, the Egyptian priests told him that the island of Atlantis was also the "stepping stone" to another "boundless" continent on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, sic the Americas.

Generally Ships appear on the scene around 3500.bC while boats or floating crafts are far older to around 60,000.bC. I presume that the Erythranaean Ocean or Indian Ocean was the extent of Greeks travelling either through the pillars of Hercules and following the coastline around south Africa or down the Nile to the Red Sea. Personally, I am not aware of any stories detailing the Greeks travelling to the Pacific.

Agreed. Plato suggested that the Indian Ocean was the place to find Atlantis. Good luck with your theory O.P. person and you may uncover a similar interesting phenomenon from your studies. Never give up!

harte;

That would be the Phoenicians, with whom the Greeks traded for tin.

Nope, the Phoenicians didn't reach Iberia until around 1100.bC. There is Greek presence on Iberia prior to this.

Absurd, as Athens didn't even exist then.

Yes that's right, but who said anything about Athens? The Greeks or early Pelasgians have been in Greece and the Peloponnese since at least 25,000.bC.

www.dartmouth.edu...

Sorry, but no. The Erythraean Sea is today known as the Red Sea, and "erythra" means "red" in Greek.

Correct, but they probably also viewed the Indian Ocean as part of the Red Sea.

There exists no evidence whatsoever that Solon brought any story at all back from Egypt.

Partially wrong, Herodotus prior to Plato told us that Solon visited Sais,Egypt. Plutarch also confirmed that Solon visited Sais,Egypt and that he did begin his poem about Atlantis.


heronumberzero

Agreed. Plato suggested that the Indian Ocean was the place to find Atlantis.

Sorry heronumberzero, but Plato suggested that the island of Atlantis was just before the straits of Gibraltar and in the Atlantic Ocean.

There can be no other location for Atlantis except for that.


In any case, I don't wish to derail the OP's thread here. Maybe someone can start an Atlantis Q&A thread, since I'm new here and can't create threads.

I still wait Stari's 20 year experience reply to his location of Atlantis.

combatmaster

okamitengu
reply to post by Stari

 

if you find atlantis you will need a tonne of cash and people to do an actual excavation.
your position on slaves may change then (:

kickstarter.com

have a look!

Very true... after all, slaves built the pyramids!

If this is a reference to Hebrew-Egyptian slavery? They were only documented as making bricks, not even being bricklayers, let alone stone masons.

Evanor1
harte;

That would be the Phoenicians, with whom the Greeks traded for tin.

Nope, the Phoenicians didn't reach Iberia until around 1100.bC. There is Greek presence on Iberia prior to this.

And this indicates that the Greeks sailed the Atlantic - to Britain - searching for tin, as the poster stated?
Note that I pointed out that the tin trade was overland.
Also, the islands the ancient Greeks referred to as "the Cassiterides" have never been identified. Current thought is that it was a catch-all for their ultimate tin source (they didn't actually know where the tin came from,) which they got through, again, overland trade. Most likely originating in Brittany (France.)

Evanor1

Absurd, as Athens didn't even exist then.

Yes that's right, but who said anything about Athens?

That would be Plato.

Evanor1

Sorry, but no. The Erythraean Sea is today known as the Red Sea, and "erythra" means "red" in Greek.

Correct, but they probably also viewed the Indian Ocean as part of the Red Sea.

Do you have any facts that would support this hypothesis?

Evanor1

There exists no evidence whatsoever that Solon brought any story at all back from Egypt.

Partially wrong, Herodotus prior to Plato told us that Solon visited Sais,Egypt. Plutarch also confirmed that Solon visited Sais,Egypt and that he did begin his poem about Atlantis.

Who has denied that Solon visited Egypt? Also, Plutarch's source was Plato's two Dialogues that mention Atlantis. So you are actually using Plato's story here to try and verify Plato's story. Obviously, this is meaningless.


Harte

AliceBleachWhite
Atlantis was a colony ship on temporary layover on planet for recreation, and resupply, but left long long ago.

Again, this would be hardline Lemurian propaganda. The Lemurians destroyed the ship, children and women included. What has ATS come to that it will allow this kind of historical revisionism?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Sorry, but what Lemurians?

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


Nevermind. I was replying to nonsense with nonsense.

On-Topic:

OP...WHY do you believe you have evidence for atlantis?

Heronumber0
Agreed. Plato suggested that the Indian Ocean was the place to find Atlantis. Good luck with your theory O.P. person and you may uncover a similar interesting phenomenon from your studies. Never give up!

Plato said nothing of the sort.

reply to post by Stari


The best hypothesis I've seen so far was the one on the South of Spain just after the Pillars of Hercules, not only the geography supports it but there are some artefacts found.

There was an episode of national geographic about it (at least it is still not at the same level as the history channel).

reply to post by Harte


If the Egyptians and Minoans were sailing around 3000.bC, then why wouldn't the ir counterpart Greeks or Italians be sailing also? Or other cultures around the mediterranean.

Evanor1
"Yes that's right, but who said anything about Athens?"

Harte's response.
"That would be Plato."

The Atlantis story is a progression of history, and not just 9000 years prior Solon. Plato knew that early Attica wasn't called Athens, he made it clear by writing;

From the Timaeus dialogue;

For there was a time, Solon, before the great deluge of all, when the city which now is Athens was first in war and in every way the best governed of all cities,

Evanor1
"Correct, but they probably also viewed the Indian Ocean as part of the Red Sea."

harte's response;
"Do you have any facts that would support this hypothesis?"

The fact is that the Greeks and also in their myths, knew about Ethiopia, which is next to the red sea and indian ocean. They also viewed Oceanus as the all encircling ocean around Europe,Asia and Africa.

That may be so for Plutarch mentioning Solon's trip after Plato, but Herodotus was before Plato, so it is meaningful.