Cops Break Teen's Arm For Not Leaving School Bus

The Old American
reply to post by elevatedone

 

Pulling someone's arm behind them to the point of breaking is not an accident. It is intentional. Police know how much force it takes to break bones and joints, and he exceeded that. The kid's mouth doesn't excuse him being a child.

/TOA

Arm bar with pain compliance will make any sane person submit... The kid was nuts, he was so nuts he didn't know when to give into the pain. A trained person knows when to stop the armbar by a persons reaction... The crazyass kid didn't respond until it broke.

I'm sure this crazy SOB will be taken out of the public school system and away from other people. The kid was obviously crazy...but the cops could not have known that. Not like he was wearing a "I'm Crazy" bracket.

Let us be glad he didn't hurt the bus driver or any other kids.

Wrabbit2000

Was breaking his arm right? No. Of course not. Are we honestly suggesting they broke his arm deliberately with actual intent? That seems insane.

Well, yes. They might not have started with this in mind, but IMHO they became infuriated with his resistance and went overboard. Although I'm willing to concede gross incompetence at their job as an alternative. I doubt the kid had osteogenenis imperfecta or the like, so using the kid's arm as a force gauge, they used way too much force.

15 minutes spent on this is a lot of police time taken on a bus needed to take other kids to school. The kid had to be moved and had already threatened others..including the driver, which is how the story opens. So what choices really existed here?

This seems to make sense until you realize that moving uncooperative violent psych patients without breaking their bones happens EVERY DAY. Any psych nurse or ED nurse can do it. Does it all the time, if the hospital has a psych ward. The difference is in attitude - if a male nurse in a psych ICU breaks a patient's arm moving him, it's a felony abuse charge.

No feedback, no change.

boncho
reply to post by The Old American

 

Police were called after the driver said he felt he could not safely transport Gocheski to school at Parsons Child and Family Center, "based on threats that the student made in an aggressive manner," police said in the release.

Okay, the driver sounds like a tool.

Silly tool...wanting to ensure the safety of others and himself. At least he wasn't like that bus driver who let those kids beat up that one white kid... Now that bus driver was not a tool.....

The attorney said the teenager's medications were being adjusted at the time, limiting his ability to move. He has been diagnosed with multiple emotional disorders, including Tourette syndrome, anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder and pervasive developmental disorder,…

I can't get over this. Doesn't the driver know about these conditions and why is it the police are called to deal with a mentally ill kid? Not saying there has to be a million regulations to deal with situations like this, but why are you afraid of a 16 year old…

Doesn't the driver know about these conditions.... LOL. What are you smoking? The bus driver has no legal grounds to know about a kids medical condition? You DONT even have legal grounds to peek into your spouse's medical folder....but the driver should have know. Only blame for this falls on the parents. I really can't believe you stated that!!? AND Afraid of a 16 year old!!! The bus driver lays on hand on that CHILD and he goes to jail! That driver has probably had to deal with dumbass kids on many occasions, he did his job.

You must live in some fantasy land!



People's blind hatred for cops makes them think EVERY suspect is a poor victim of police brutality..

Bedlam

elevatedone
reply to post by stargatetravels

 

Not excusing it... see my post above yours... it was an accident a terrible accident.

Psych nurses manage to get violently insane people from point A to point B with no broken bones at all. Big adult ones, not just kiddies. In fact, if THEY break patient's bones, they are generally charged with felonies.

Maybe if cops were, too, it might engender a bit more care?

....but they, the nurses, know what they are dealing with. Supposed you'd have nurses detaining EVERY criminal! Laughable.

Comparing apples to oranges on that one. Physch nurses deal with patients, cops deal with everyone!

reply to post by Bedlam

This seems to make sense until you realize that moving uncooperative violent psych patients without breaking their bones happens EVERY DAY.

Accidents that result in injury happen while handling and moving violent patients frequently as well. When half of the human mix is intent on resisting or causing violence ...people get hurt. This is among professionals who actually deal with that sort of thing in clinical settings. Cops aren't clinicians and 15 minutes was a pretty good time to try talking a kid into just getting off the bus.

It's a shame anyone got injured, especially the kid. It's an equal shame he had to threaten people and then fight the cops. A whole day of bad choices and hard consequences.

ChuckNasty

....but they, the nurses, know what they are dealing with. Supposed you'd have nurses detaining EVERY criminal! Laughable.

Comparing apples to oranges on that one. Physch nurses deal with patients, cops deal with everyone!

In this case, though, it's not a "criminal", it's a disturbed kid. Not armed, not particularly violent. What's laughable is the suggestion that you can't get this kid out of the seat and into custody without breaking bones.

Wrabbit2000
Cops aren't clinicians and 15 minutes was a pretty good time to try talking a kid into just getting off the bus.

Note that the article shows the cops knew he was having psych issues. It doesn't take a degree in clinical psych to learn how to move resisting people without injury.

While injuries DO happen at psych hospitals or the ED, they're investigated by the state and people are fired or jailed for it. If you broke a patient's arm putting him in leathers, I assure you it would be hard times. Because crazy people are considered an at-risk population in most states, and have the same protection as the elderly or children. Only for some reason, that sort of felony charge never seems to be brought against police.

Bedlam

ChuckNasty

....but they, the nurses, know what they are dealing with. Supposed you'd have nurses detaining EVERY criminal! Laughable.

Comparing apples to oranges on that one. Physch nurses deal with patients, cops deal with everyone!

In this case, though, it's not a "criminal", it's a disturbed kid. Not armed, not particularly violent. What's laughable is the suggestion that you can't get this kid out of the seat and into custody without breaking bones.

16 years of age and making threats = against the law.

The arm bar is the least damaging hold...to a sane person. Again, cops had no clue. If I knew the kid was nuts, I'd just tell the bus driver to park the bus, then call the parents....

But it must be nice to live in your fantasy world of being able to know everything. Living in hindsight must be divine..

Still laughable on your responses...

Lipton

The Old American
$1M lawsuit after troubled teen's arm broken by police in removal from school bus/TOA

Did the majority of you police bashers actually watch the video? Honestly the pair of officers that responded were very calm and collected, never once screamed, threatened violence, talked down to, or tried to shoot the kid 17 times.

IMO the escalation of force went in correct order; gently asking, multiple verbal commands, verbal order and lastly physical altercation. I truly believe that in this example neither officer intended for the kid to get hurt. Now there is no shortage of videos out there documenting police brutality and I'm not downplaying what happened to this kid. But I think that this individual example was a freak accident.


Side note: Scroll to 1:30. The adult female in the back is laughing at the fact that the kid had his arm broke and stifles her laughter with her hand.

the officer clearly had the kid in control when they got him up, against a seat with arms behind his back and could've just cuffed and escorted him off the bus. but what did he do? the one cop continued to crank that arm up till it snapped in two! unacceptable

Bedlam

While injuries DO happen at psych hospitals or the ED, they're investigated by the state and people are fired or jailed for it.

Are you sure about that?

Getting fired or sent to jail for an accident seems to be a bit harsh don't you think?

ChuckNasty
16 years of age and making threats = against the law.

cops telling you "come on and we'll take you to the hospital" = "knowing you are under psychiatric care"

The arm bar is the least damaging hold...to a sane person. Again, cops had no clue.

"have no clue" = "incompetent". "I'll keep twisting until you hold still" = mens rea, != action of a reasonable man

But it must be nice to live in your fantasy world of being able to know everything.

Everything's not involved here. In fact, it's a pretty circumscribed set of events. The sort of which is dealt with in other settings without broken bones.

thesaneone

Bedlam

While injuries DO happen at psych hospitals or the ED, they're investigated by the state and people are fired or jailed for it.

Are you sure about that?

Getting fired or sent to jail for an accident seems to be a bit harsh don't you think?

You'd think. CSB: brother Billy worked an ED at a really large hospital. Since the hospital had a staffed psych ward with a psych ICU, they could take violently insane people as ED patients. One night they got a guy in who was going bat#, spitting, biting, kicking, they finally got him in leathers, and the guy had a dislocated finger. No one knows if it was that way when he came in, but it was at that point. The state sent investigators, so did CMS. It went on for maybe six weeks. Depositions, examinations of the video, a criminal investigation was started and dropped due to lack of evidence of who it might have been in the melee.

They take that sort of thing really seriously - if you're not a cop.

reply to post by Bedlam


And......

They all lost their jobs right?

Bedlam

ChuckNasty
16 years of age and making threats = against the law.

cops telling you "come on and we'll take you to the hospital" = "knowing you are under psychiatric care"

Really!? Silly me, I never knew that those were = to each other... (Cause they aren't...maybe I need to take you to the hospital).

The arm bar is the least damaging hold...to a sane person. Again, cops had no clue.

"have no clue" = "incompetent". "I'll keep twisting until you hold still" = mens rea, != action of a reasonable man

Lol again, to live in your hindsight... This isn't the future yet, cops can't know about EVERY condition a person has. As for the armbar, verbal commands usually come with that.... But what do I know lol.

But it must be nice to live in your fantasy world of being able to know everything.

Everything's not involved here. In fact, it's a pretty circumscribed set of events. The sort of which is dealt with in other settings without broken bones.

Kid should've cooperated. Didn't. Got his arm broke. Cops tried talking nicely, didn't work out.

That poor poor misunderstood kid...

reply to post by ChuckNasty

Doesn't the driver know about these conditions.... LOL. What are you smoking? The bus driver has no legal grounds to know about a kids medical condition? You DONT even have legal grounds to peek into your spouse's medical folder....but the driver should have know. Only blame for this falls on the parents. I really can't believe you stated that!!? AND Afraid of a 16 year old!!! The bus driver lays on hand on that CHILD and he goes to jail! That driver has probably had to deal with dumbass kids on many occasions, he did his job.

You must live in some fantasy land!

I didn't say I thought the bus driver should manhandle the kid, nor that he should have a psychiatric degree. But if you are busy screwed up kids you tend to know which ones are screwed up. And yea, the bus driver knew about kids with conditions when I was in school. One had epilepsy, one had this, one had that.

Some were mouthy, some were aggressive, some pissed themselves. The point being the bus driver escalated it when he called in the calvary.

And plenty of bus drivers were dicks. Those ones always got the most hassle.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

It's a shame anyone got injured, especially the kid. It's an equal shame he had to threaten people and then fight the cops. A whole day of bad choices and hard consequences.

He had Tourette syndrome, the threats were probably meaningless once he got passed his rage attack.

If you're coping with rages, self-injurious behaviors, or other extreme situations, begin by examining what circumstances seem to bring on the most difficult behaviors. If you can pinpoint at least some of your child's triggers, you've made the first step toward preventing blow-ups.

Medical identification cards are available from the national TSA, or you can print up your own at a copy center. These cards can also be helpful if your child has socially unacceptable tics, such as coprolalia, that could attract unwanted attention.

A card's text might read:

My child has a neurological disorder, Tourette's syndrome, that causes uncontrolled movements and sounds, and that sometimes causes behavior problems. If you would like to know more about Tourette's syndrome, please call the Tourette's Syndrome Association at (718) 224-2999.
Occasionally a bystander will misunderstand what's going on and call the police. At times like these, having a card on hand can really help.

In some areas, the police department maintains a registry of persons with disabilities whose behavior could be misconstrued as threatening or so odd as to require police attention. Signing up with a registry gives the police solid information to work with before officers respond to potentially confusing situations, whether they occur in your home or in public.

Once a rage has actually occurred, it's essential to give the person time to recover. It's also important for the person to make reparations for his or her behavior, if possible. If you find that certain situations often or almost always set the stage for rage, see if you can find ways to identify the root problem. Older children may be able to tell you exactly what it is that sets them off, but with younger children your powers of observation will have to suffice.

Again, I go back to the bus driver.

oreilly.com...

boncho
reply to post by ChuckNasty

 

Doesn't the driver know about these conditions.... LOL. What are you smoking? The bus driver has no legal grounds to know about a kids medical condition? You DONT even have legal grounds to peek into your spouse's medical folder....but the driver should have know. Only blame for this falls on the parents. I really can't believe you stated that!!? AND Afraid of a 16 year old!!! The bus driver lays on hand on that CHILD and he goes to jail! That driver has probably had to deal with dumbass kids on many occasions, he did his job.

You must live in some fantasy land!

I didn't say I thought the bus driver should manhandle the kid, nor that he should have a psychiatric degree. But if you are busy screwed up kids you tend to know which ones are screwed up. And yea, the bus driver knew about kids with conditions when I was in school. One had epilepsy, one had this, one had that.

Some were mouthy, some were aggressive, some pissed themselves. The point being the bus driver escalated it when he called in the calvary.

And plenty of bus drivers were dicks. Those ones always got the most hassle.

Those are valid points, but I never implied that a bus driver man handle anyone.

Where I grew up, we had the same bus driver until they retired or quit. That bus driver knew everyone. Times now, that isn't common place.

The bus driver escalated the situation when it warranted to be. There was a cause and effect.

ChuckNasty

Bedlam

ChuckNasty
16 years of age and making threats = against the law.

cops telling you "come on and we'll take you to the hospital" = "knowing you are under psychiatric care"

Really!? Silly me, I never knew that those were = to each other... (Cause they aren't...maybe I need to take you to the hospital).

The arm bar is the least damaging hold...to a sane person. Again, cops had no clue.

"have no clue" = "incompetent". "I'll keep twisting until you hold still" = mens rea, != action of a reasonable man

Lol again, to live in your hindsight... This isn't the future yet, cops can't know about EVERY condition a person has. As for the armbar, verbal commands usually come with that.... But what do I know lol.

But it must be nice to live in your fantasy world of being able to know everything.

Everything's not involved here. In fact, it's a pretty circumscribed set of events. The sort of which is dealt with in other settings without broken bones.

Kid should've cooperated. Didn't. Got his arm broke. Cops tried talking nicely, didn't work out.

That poor poor misunderstood kid...

he didn't cooperate but breaking his arm was not necessary.....this kid will grow up into adulthood with an even bigger chip on his shoulder and that chip will no doubt be aimed squarely at the authorities (more than it was already).....pretty sad situation...not a good way to get an already confused child to tow the party line as such.....

as you say the cops tried to talk to him nicely,didnt work out so his arm was broken...that is called manhandling...i hope they dont treat the women in their lives the same way

hopenotfeariswhatweneed

ChuckNasty

Bedlam

ChuckNasty
16 years of age and making threats = against the law.

cops telling you "come on and we'll take you to the hospital" = "knowing you are under psychiatric care"

Really!? Silly me, I never knew that those were = to each other... (Cause they aren't...maybe I need to take you to the hospital).

The arm bar is the least damaging hold...to a sane person. Again, cops had no clue.

"have no clue" = "incompetent". "I'll keep twisting until you hold still" = mens rea, != action of a reasonable man

Lol again, to live in your hindsight... This isn't the future yet, cops can't know about EVERY condition a person has. As for the armbar, verbal commands usually come with that.... But what do I know lol.

But it must be nice to live in your fantasy world of being able to know everything.

Everything's not involved here. In fact, it's a pretty circumscribed set of events. The sort of which is dealt with in other settings without broken bones.

Kid should've cooperated. Didn't. Got his arm broke. Cops tried talking nicely, didn't work out.

That poor poor misunderstood kid...

he didn't cooperate but breaking his arm was not necessary.....this kid will grow up into adulthood with an even bigger chip on his shoulder and that chip will no doubt be aimed squarely at the authorities (more than it was already).....pretty sad situation...not a good way to get an already confused child to tow the party line as such.....

as you say the cops tried to talk to him nicely,didnt work out so his arm was broken...that is called manhandling...i hope they dont treat the women in their lives the same way

Know what, you are right. The policeman did use the old "Let's break this arm" hold on him....that is the whole purpose of that move.

That kids chip....well we all have agreed, it is not his fault. He is a mental patient that is undergoing an extreme psychiatric drug regiment...with a list of mental issues he supposedly has, I hope that last statement is true..

As for your generalization of cops and their women....Wow! That one was a bit off topic. Maybe that kid isn't the only one that needs a hospital visit..

Thank you for giving me your 2¢'s.

ChuckNasty

hopenotfeariswhatweneed

ChuckNasty

Bedlam

ChuckNasty
16 years of age and making threats = against the law.

cops telling you "come on and we'll take you to the hospital" = "knowing you are under psychiatric care"

Really!? Silly me, I never knew that those were = to each other... (Cause they aren't...maybe I need to take you to the hospital).

The arm bar is the least damaging hold...to a sane person. Again, cops had no clue.

"have no clue" = "incompetent". "I'll keep twisting until you hold still" = mens rea, != action of a reasonable man

Lol again, to live in your hindsight... This isn't the future yet, cops can't know about EVERY condition a person has. As for the armbar, verbal commands usually come with that.... But what do I know lol.

But it must be nice to live in your fantasy world of being able to know everything.

Everything's not involved here. In fact, it's a pretty circumscribed set of events. The sort of which is dealt with in other settings without broken bones.

Kid should've cooperated. Didn't. Got his arm broke. Cops tried talking nicely, didn't work out.

That poor poor misunderstood kid...

he didn't cooperate but breaking his arm was not necessary.....this kid will grow up into adulthood with an even bigger chip on his shoulder and that chip will no doubt be aimed squarely at the authorities (more than it was already).....pretty sad situation...not a good way to get an already confused child to tow the party line as such.....

as you say the cops tried to talk to him nicely,didnt work out so his arm was broken...that is called manhandling...i hope they dont treat the women in their lives the same way

Know what, you are right. The policeman did use the old "Let's break this arm" hold on him....that is the whole purpose of that move.

That kids chip....well we all have agreed, it is not his fault. He is a mental patient that is undergoing an extreme psychiatric drug regiment...with a list of mental issues he supposedly has, I hope that last statement is true..

As for your generalization of cops and their women....Wow! That one was a bit off topic. Maybe that kid isn't the only one that needs a hospital visit..

Thank you for giving me your 2¢'s.

from what i am reading if you had your way you would be sending quite a few people of to hospital based on their view of the situation........are you a doctor? or do you just like to prescribe your own medicine .....?...or are you in an institution right now and just simply looking for some company......

the generalisation was based on the fact that if they like to manhandle children because of the imminent threat they were posing they must be able to use force on other types of people i used women as an example because generally they are much weaker than men....not always granted as there are some tough chicks out there but yes ...i was generalising