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New Gallup Poll - % of Americans favoring stricter gun laws falls in 2014, % favoring less strict up

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posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by Logarock
 


And the loop hole is not a loop hole, as this transaction can occur outside of the gun show.

It is a private, person to person sale.

ANY Gun dealer is bound by law to conduct a background check for any sale.




posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 09:20 AM
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What "Loophole" do people imagine they see? The only hole I see is in the logic being used.

The "Gunshow Loophole" simply says private citizens don't need the permission or blessings of the State to sell a privately owned firearm between them.

Whoopee...and I'll be HAPPY to see private gun sales banned on the property of all gun shows right now. It detracts from and hurts the licensed tables doing legitimate business. Outside and away from the gun show? It's not a "loophole". It's called freedom in this nation we love so much and a GOOD % OF THIS NATION like the law just the way it is, or figure it's already over the top for being too much.

Why do people think that adding more laws to the 20,000+ already on the books between Federal State and Local levels will IMPROVE anything???

We DO need two parties, but not Repubs and Dems. We need the Party of Law Makers and Law Takers. The makers are self evident and comprise far too many people in love with cradle to grave nanny state care. The takers can TAKE LAWS OFF the books so maybe a normal human being can read the laws they're expected to follow someday.

Even suggesting that is foolish right now.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 09:42 AM
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riffraff

Logarock

Biigs
I think if the gun show loop hole was never available Americans wouldn't have half the issues they do currently with illegalally owned weapons.

Tough break America, gun issues are going to be a nightmare to combat effectively.


edit on 1-2-2014 by Biigs because: (no reason given)



The so called "loop hole" is only a loop hole in that the buyer is able to buy a gun without the government having any record of the transaction.

Not true. Whenever I buy a gun at gun shows I have to pass background checks and fill out about three pages of paperwork, just like buying a gun at any retailer. My guns are registered to me and I'm pissed about that ,believe me. But if you want to buy a gun from them you must register it.


Some gun shows have given in and od this but not all. Certainly not around here. I just last year walked into a gun show and walked out with a weapon with out any signature or paper work save for cash.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 09:48 AM
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riffraff
reply to post by Biigs
 


What is this gun show loophole I keep hearing about? I can tell you from personal experience having bought guns at gun shows they are all legally registered. I had no say in the matter. If I wanted to buy a gun from a licensed dealer, it must be registered to me. Period. The only way to get a gun not registered in your name is to buy a used gun from a friend, neighbor, etc. but no gun show is required for that.

edit on 3-2-2014 by riffraff because: (no reason given)



In this state, unlicensed gun dealers can hold shows and sell guns without background checks or any paperwork.

Its sates like this and others that are referred to when someone talks about the gun show loop hole.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 09:52 AM
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Logarock
Some gun shows have given in and od this but not all. Certainly not around here. I just last year walked into a gun show and walked out with a weapon with out any signature or paper work save for cash.


Was the seller a private individual or a licensed dealer? Depending upon state laws, you may not have to submit a background check on private party sales. But from licensed dealers, regardless of venue, its a federal law that a background check must be submitted first.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 09:59 AM
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Logarock



In this state, unlicensed gun dealers can hold shows and sell guns without background checks or any paperwork.

Its sates like this and others that are referred to when someone talks about the gun show loop hole.


Then they are not "gun dealers". very simply. It is considered as a "private" transaction.

The term "dealer" has no reason to be used in that setting. It is an incorrect use of a title.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 10:00 AM
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vor78

Logarock
Some gun shows have given in and od this but not all. Certainly not around here. I just last year walked into a gun show and walked out with a weapon with out any signature or paper work save for cash.


Was the seller a private individual or a licensed dealer? Depending upon state laws, you may not have to submit a background check on private party sales. But from licensed dealers, regardless of venue, its a federal law that a background check must be submitted first.



Well for all intents and purposes they are gun dealers. Most have set up tables with dozens of weapons displayed on each and plenty of ammo. You will see folks standing around with maybe one weapon trying make a sale, but think of table after table, booth after booth, with sometimes up to one hundred weapon displayed and all manner of weapon types.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 10:09 AM
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macman

Logarock



In this state, unlicensed gun dealers can hold shows and sell guns without background checks or any paperwork.

Its sates like this and others that are referred to when someone talks about the gun show loop hole.


Then they are not "gun dealers". very simply. It is considered as a "private" transaction.

The term "dealer" has no reason to be used in that setting. It is an incorrect use of a title.


That is why it is called a loophole. One can wheel and deal in weapons without a license. Make a living at it.

In this state, like others, you can sell so many cars a year without needing a dealers license. With guns there is no way to monitor the number of weapons one person buys and sells. A man that is involved in the private transaction of hundreds of weapons a year is certainly dealing in them but gets by in the "loop hole". Its legal semantics really to say they are not dealers.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 10:38 AM
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Logarock
That is why it is called a loophole. One can wheel and deal in weapons without a license. Make a living at it.



I don't doubt that people do that, but if the Feds can prove that they're 'dealing' without a license with the intent of turning a profit, they can potentially be prosecuted. Federal law requires dealers to have a license.


www.law.cornell.edu...


edit on 3-2-2014 by vor78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 10:40 AM
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Logarock


That is why it is called a loophole. One can wheel and deal in weapons without a license. Make a living at it.



No, no they can't.

There are very very specific rules for this. Once an individual reaches a certain amount, either number of guns or amount in cash of sales, they are considered as a dealer, and must obtain a dealers license.

The use of "Unlicensed dealer" is still incorrectly applied. The person can't order firearms from distributors, nor do most manufacturers sell to the general public.

They are not a dealer in any way, shape or form. They are buying firearms, at retail price, and selling them in private transactions.

They are not dealers.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 10:48 AM
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vor78

Logarock
That is why it is called a loophole. One can wheel and deal in weapons without a license. Make a living at it.



I don't doubt that people do that, but if the Feds can prove that they're 'dealing' without a license with the intent of turning a profit, they can potentially be prosecuted. Federal law requires dealers to have a license.




Well no one not even the feds is under the illusion that these folks are buying weapons, from private citizens, for 50$ and then selling them for 50$ or that they are turning hundreds of weapons a year at cost.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 10:58 AM
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macman

Logarock


That is why it is called a loophole. One can wheel and deal in weapons without a license. Make a living at it.



No, no they can't.

There are very very specific rules for this. Once an individual reaches a certain amount, either number of guns or amount in cash of sales, they are considered as a dealer, and must obtain a dealers license.

The use of "Unlicensed dealer" is still incorrectly applied.


But there is no way for the state to ascertain the amount of weapons a private citizen is turning in a year. That's why its a loophole and why some would like to see legislation to require private citizens to report the smallest of weapon transactions.

Now we see Colorado has licensed official cannabis dealers. What were some of them before? Unlicensed dealers buying from unlicensed growers.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by Logarock
 


The other activity you mention isn't a protected and ABSOLUTE right of the citizens of the United States, protected as Item #2 in our founding papers and core values of the nation itself.

Firearms are.

There is absolutely no comparison outside of pushing agendas, to compare firearms to almost any other item in America today. It's specific and, as mentioned, absolute protections (absolute like never before, following the decisions in Heller and McDonald) place it in a category all it's own and beyond the reach of ordinary consumer or market place manipulation by regulation or legislation.

Unlike so many other things....those who would disregard law cannot do so with firearms. The law can be changed ...and it'll take more than the special interests themselves to accomplish that ..but the law cannot be played with much beyond what it already has been.

Again... a LARGE % of this nation know what these laws are, are happy with them this way and DO NOT term anything here as a "loophole". I wish everyone would see this isn't ignorance or lack of understanding the issues. Some of us REALLY DO DISAGREE..and disagree with every fiber of our being when it comes to additional regulation on a part of this nation's heritage and past times.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 11:10 AM
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Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Logarock
 


The other activity you mention isn't a protected and ABSOLUTE right of the citizens of the United States, protected as Item #2 in our founding papers and core values of the nation itself.

Firearms are.

There is absolutely no comparison outside of pushing agendas, to compare firearms to almost any other item in America today. It's specific and, as mentioned, absolute protections (absolute like never before, following the decisions in Heller and McDonald) place it in a category all it's own and beyond the reach of ordinary consumer or market place manipulation by regulation or legislation.



Right Rabbit. I was simply using that license comparison in relation to the semantic context of the word. I should have mentioned that for the sake of some conclusions that would be drawn. No agenda there.

Maybe the AFT should get your drift as they like to include a constitutionally protected right in the regulation of "contraband".

And by the way I am not in favor at all with any sort of closing the ground by legislation of private citizen transaction. In fact I feel that manufactures shouldn't have to report sales to private citizen, because I know why the government is interested in these transactions. I am simply pointing out that certain in the government and with agendas certainly see these gun shows as unlicensed gun dealing.
edit on 3-2-2014 by Logarock because: n



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 11:12 AM
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Logarock
Well no one not even the feds is under the illusion that these folks are buying weapons, from private citizens, for 50$ and then selling them for 50$ or that they are turning hundreds of weapons a year at cost.


Of course not. The Feds can and often do prosecute if they can prove it.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by Logarock
 


It is a private transaction.

Let me repeat, a private transaction.

The Govt has no business in this.

Just as the Govt has no business in what we do in our bedrooms.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by vor78
 


I know of several people that got popped for that last year.

Gun Broker and Guns America are reviewed often.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by macman
 


Right. Haven't said otherwise. That was part of my point here.

You must ask though how a constitutionally protected right can still be regulated and subject, in sales transactions, to government oversight simply over distribution methods, volume of sales and customer consideration. Licensed gun dealers are literally information collection centers for the government.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Logarock
 


Ahhh.. right then!


I had mistaken you for one of those who are very much supporting the changes in the law for the removal of the 'loophole'. It's quite a debate to follow at times, isn't it?



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 





The other activity you mention isn't a protected and ABSOLUTE right of the citizens of the United States, protected as Item #2 in our founding papers and core values of the nation itself.


Sorry but if you are not a member of a well regulated militia then you do not have the right to bear arms. That is what the constitution says everyone keeps making the wrong assumption.




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