Deciphering the Pagan Stones

originally posted by: Wifibrains
a reply to: Logarock

Now taking the Pict stones in conjunction with sun and moon, seasons and their relationship with time measures and orbit ect its really not possible to conclude they represent anything practical or relevant but observations of time based on the sun and moon.

"their celestial habitat towered over the earth a model for temples and commemorative monuments of the earth"

I have always understood this to be temples and monuments made after the likeness of some ancient and lost central civilization. Shambala, Atlantis ect build during the age of gods and men before the catastrophe.

I have always understood this to be temples and monuments made after the likeness of some ancient and lost central civilization. Shambala, Atlantis ect build during the age of gods and men before the catastrophe

Maybe, but there are likenesses that remain that also show the heavens on the earth as they are still seen today.

“The ‘religion’ of the ancient Egyptian was a ‘magical religion’ or, as it has become more obvious in recent years, an ‘astral religion’. The belief was that the benevolent and nurturing influence of the stars could be drawn down into Egypt through a sacred science involving rituals and talismans (pyramids, statuary, etc.). This explains the building of the Giza pyramids as ‘stars’ to represent the region of the sky containing Orion, the latter deemed to be the stars most benevolent to mankind. It may sound ‘hocus pocus’ to us today, but I strongly suspect that the ancients could thus create ‘sacred cosmic landscapes’ in which high rituals were performed that affected the spiritual aspect of initiated men and women.

“Do you not know, Asclepius, that Egypt is made in the image of heaven? Or, to be more precise, that everything governed and moved in heaven came down to Egypt and was transferred there."

Ancient people comprehended the language of the stars much better than we do today, despite our Hubble Space Telescope and Very Large Array. If we can translate the encoded messages from the celestial dimension to understand what these time-traveling pinpoints of light are endeavoring to tell us, then we will realize the complexity and depths of our past knowledge of a truly living cosmos.

www.ancient-origins.net...

There is also the glastonbury temple of the stars...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

“The starres wich agree with their reproductions on the ground do lye onlie on the celestial path of the Sonne, moon and planets...
thus is astrologie and astronomie carefullie and exactley married and measured in a scientific reconstruction of the heavens which shews that the ancients understode all which today the lerned know to be factes.”

There are many correlations between saturn worship and sun worship, I wonder if saturn kings/gods were born of earth mounds in alignment with the planets.
Are there any saturn links with mythras? could saturn have been ruler between harvest and solstice? (Death/rebirth)

a reply to: Wifibrains

Good luring Wifi, it's great to see Log again!

I was thinking about the competition, and sacrificing of bulls, and wearing a hide that symbolised being the sun god or king... I just thought of the Golden Fleece, yep Jason and the argonaught, so thought to take a looksee.

I was reading about him today, in Stars, Stones and Scholars (gone up I see, glad I bought it when I did!)

The author "equate(s) Merlin with the legendary physician Aesculapius of the fabled Argo of Jason and the Argonauts -Argos=earth -whose Minyans we hold to be the first men to ever conduct a geodetic survey of Earth by astronomy....
(these) legendary Minyans came to be known as the twelve Knights of the Round Table of the zodiac of stars and who were immortalised in ancient epic and in the heavens as the argonauts of old. )

That's a pretty impressive synchronicity.

Consider the stories we read in the Black Book and others; the stories of the comb being fetched from Twrch Trwyth's hair, the enchanted boar. These are the same tales aren't they? Stories of the stars.

Oh and check punkinwork's thread, it's excellent:

The Dodwell Manuscript

a reply to: beansidhe

The Dodwell Manuscript

That was quite interesting. It kind of makes the saturn polar configuration theory plausible as well. The "logarithmic" (that's all you log lol) recovery curve could correlate to, or be a effect of the shift or rearranging of the planetary configuration into the solar system as we know it today!

Cool.

a reply to: Wifibrains



I think I remember a similar theory about venus too - anyway, it's a great read if you get the chance (Dodwell). A lot of the maths goes right over my head, but I like his premise.

And just one more thing to add, before a return to the double discs:

Children are being encouraged to explore one of Scotland's most mysterious peoples by recreating their forts and art in Lego and face paints. Forestry Commission Scotland (FCS) has created a new learning resource for schools on the Picts.

LEGOPICTS! How brilliant.

BBC Scotland

In fact, there was a physicist that actually worked out the numbers for a planetary aligned solar system.. I'm useless with maths but am wondering if the recovery curve ratio could level out and align with the numbers this guy came up with and fall in the correct time period.

Wonder if Athlonsavage would want to play?

a reply to: Wifibrains

Hmm. Worth asking, certainly.

a reply to: beansidhe

Ill just plant a seed.

From Revelation 12:1

1A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

When I look at this now, being half-way through Martin Brennan's 'Stones of Time', it could make sense.

The book is about two artists who became fascinated with the Bru na Boinne complex, alleged home of the Tuatha de Danaan. He wondered about the artwork on so many of the stones, and felt sure it had something to with the stars. He did something so inspired and yet so blindingly obvious that you can't help but to admire the guy.

He began by thinking about light and shadow, and played with a gnomon, tracking the degrees that the sun moved throughout the seasons.



He realised that the sun made the following circuit in 12 months:



Notice that one side spirals clockwise and the other anti-clockwise.
Next he spent time in the mounds, waiting weeks and months in each cairn to see where the light would fall on the picture stones at the back wall.



On winter solstice at Newgrange, he was rewarded when the light from the first morning sunrays came down the passageway in a pencil-wide beam, and travelled across the back wall.



He realised that the light would travel across different patterns until it settled on the central motif - a sun - indicating the time and date: Winter Solstice.



(Just an example - above is the Hag's Chair stone from a different cairn, but I can't find a picture online of the Newgrange one, but it's similar).

He then went on to replicate the experiments at other cairns, noting autumn equinox alignments amonst others.

Anyway... ... when I look at the double discs above, are they a leftover from this era? The arrows (Z) showing the spinning in opposite rotation? One season for growth and the other for quiet/death? I know we spoke about this before but I wanted to think about it again!

a reply to: beansidhe

Anyway... ... when I look at the double discs above, are they a leftover from this era? The arrows (Z) showing the spinning in opposite rotation? One season for growth and the other for quiet/death? I know we spoke about this before but I wanted to think about it again!

Must be about that time? Hehe...



The simple stick and shadow is no doubt a ancient tool for time measurement, probably more primitive than the use of stone.

I think I get what you are saying about the circles going in opposite directions and the same motion that happens in the nature cycle. The observation of this pattern could be what prompted the the year being split into the two light and dark halves? Can that same pattern be found as a symbol carved into rock. It bears more resemblance to the triskelion I think, maybe duoskellea? I just made that up. Lol

It's close to the double disc, are you suggesting it could be a later symbol for this motion of the year, or two halves the z rod symbolising the point between the two halves?

How does the triskelion fit into each half?

Here's a thought!

Scuse the pun! Hehe.

A late 19th century New Zealand psychologist attempted to depict various states of consciousness with geometric shapes.

The diagram above may look like something out of an antiquated high school geometry book, but it’s actually a depiction of human consciousness by the late 19th century New Zealand psychologist Benjamin Betts. According to i09, Betts applied mathematics to the problem of visualizing the waking mind, producing a series of striking images in the process.

In his metaphysical explorations, Betts attempted to represent the successive stages of the evolution of human consciousness with symbolic mathematical forms;


Though the images seem at first abstract, i09 notes, if you spend enough time studying their contours and curves, it’s possible to imagine how a meta-physicist might make perfect sense out of one state of consciousness behaving like a deep bowl and another like a narrow, endless funnel.

www.smithsonianmag.com...


Connection between "the two halves" and double disc?

a reply to: Wifibrains

It bears more resemblance to the triskelion I think, maybe duoskellea? I just made that up. Lol

It's close to the double disc, are you suggesting it could be a later symbol for this motion of the year, or two halves the z rod symbolising the point between the two halves? How does the triskelion fit into each half?

It is a duoskeelea, you're right. Hmm. I don't know how the triskelions fit in; in fact I'm going to go and check how many double discs have triskelions in them, or anything else in them.

Yes, that is what I was thinking, that the Picts had somehow symbolised the changing year but no, there isn't a precursor carved in stone of that shape. I hadn't considered that until now - what each disc contains. I was just looking at the double disc as a dumb-bell shape, and assuming that was the important part.
I'll post some double disc-centres presently.

Was there a 13 month year split in 2 halves?

a reply to: Wifibrains

Why yes, yes there was:

To follow the solar year, the 13th intercalary month, referred to as Sonnocingos, was included every 2.5 years. The intercalary month alternated between being inserted before Samonios and being inserted in between Cutios and Giamonios. Each month into the calendar was divided into halves, with the second half serving as an atenoux or “renewal.” The two halves were also known as the “light” half and the “dark” half, following the new moon, and indicating that it had some religious significance.

The Coligny Calendar

Some religious significance? This calendar is also from the right time, so I should pay attention. I feel a lot of reading coming on. Good.

a reply to: beansidhe

Cool. Find out how they might have been attuned culturally at the different times in way that might effect society as a whole and if there was a difference it could point to the significance of the Z as a day/date/point in time between a 6th and 7th month? Or it could represent that extra month? A month reguarded in the religion as sacred perhaps?

a reply to: Wifibrains

You want me to formulate a post outlining the cultural similarities between the Gallic/Pictish populations during the late Iron Age, in order to deduce a shared doctrine which may shed light on the enigmatic Z rod as the pictorial representation of a potential ceremony aligned with an intercalculatory month?

As a thesis, or just a post?

Ok, just for you!

Seriously though, that is an inspired idea and given the astrological values of the other symbols, it could very well be the answer.
And then I'll post the DDC's (double disc centres )

Ooh, hang on...

According to Ray White, "the era of the New Coligny Calendar (NCC) [began] on October 8th, 1999.
This date was chosen because this date corresponds with a new moon on the date of the beginning of European winter. (when the sun is at 15Deg Scorpio)" which is also the day that the megalith at Tara marks the beginning of winter--the day the sun is at 15º Scorpio.

www.maryjones.us...

We know Scorpio is the beastie, the marker of Winter in Scotland, and now we can see that someone else considers the Gaulish calendar to start then too. So, a good shared start.

a reply to: beansidhe

There is the thirteenth constellation that maybe was given time to shine every 2 1/2 yrs? connected to Scorpio... Ophiuchus.

The constellation generally has been shown as an elderly man, probably copied from the celebrated statue at Epidaurus; but the Leyden Manuscript and the planisphere of the monk Geruvigus represent it as an unclad boy standing on the Scorpion and holding the Serpent in his hands; and the Hyginus of 1488 has a somewhat similar representation.

Although this is not one of the zodiac twelve, Mr. Royal Hill writes:

Out of the twenty-five days, from the 21st of November to the 16th of December, which the sun spends in passing from Libra to Sagittarius, only nine are spent in the Scorpion, the other sixteen being occupied in passing through Ophiuchus.

Thus, according to his idea of the boundaries, this actually is more of a zodiacal constellation than is the Scorpion.

www.constellationsofwords.com...

So around the same time frame/month?

They must have played that time in celestially somehow too no?