Deciphering the Pagan Stones

a reply to: Wifibrains

I'm part way through this excellent site-

caer australis - which suggests (from what I've read, but there's loads) that the thirteenth month (Ciallos - n.b. don't do a google image search unless you're keen on erectile dysfunction. just a heads up, no pun intended, tee hee!) that Ciallos didn't relate to a constellation, but the Pleides were used to mark the end of each 5 year period.
But I need to read much more, it's quite complicated.

One of the things that does seem to be common in all of the Celtic countries, Isle of Man, Wales, France, Spain etc is Beltane - May Day.
Given that this is opposite in the 'wheel' to Samhain, the start of Winter (beastie), it hould follow that Beltane would be represented too? We still have a May Day holiday here, loads of places do.
Beltane is the start of summer - maybe this is represented?

a reply to: Wifibrains


Hmm. This was a interesting read. It alludes to the possibility the 13th sign anciently was depicted as someone holding two snakes, not one!

...so how about the man figure? The man figure of the Serpent Handler is better known today as the dragon slayer. Remember that dragon, snake and serpent are interchangeable.

the saints named above either killed or chased dragons away. Why? The Dragon Snake Serpent brought great healing to us – why chase it away? Maybe it was the ability to self heal with herbs that is being chased away? Or was it knowledge of and connection to the Goddess that was being demonised and hidden away?

Today the title “Queen of Heaven” is used by Catholics and Orthodox Christians for Mary, mother of Jesus. Corona Borealis, a small constellation in the northern sky whose Latin name means "northern crown," is located on Mary's head — a crown representing Mary as the Queen of Heaven. The star group Corona Borealis is a very pretty star group shaped like a tiara / crown of 7 jewels some of which sparkle like diamonds …the brightest star is Gemma: ‘the jewel in the crown’ and next brightest is the star T-Corona; the ‘Blaze Star’. Now and then they suddenly flare up to become very bright sparkling like diamonds in a sunbeam.

These high ladies from the times before the catholick church have mostly disappeared from common use and knowledge. Even Mary had her divinity removed under the idea that she was merely human without original sin, but once upon a time Mary was used to displace and replace the Pagan Goddess / Queen of Heaven but having done her forced job - she herself was downgraded and let go…

To close – this disappearing trick of the religious overlords as they tried to hide the Queen of Heaven was merely slight of hand. They hid the two snakes by making them one and then they put a powerful male to control the snake – his names include Ophiuchus, Ophiucus, Moses, Andrew, Michael, George and Patrick. The stars that make up the “Goddess Queen-of-the-Great-Region” still exist as do her many names - Anat, Isis, Innana, Astarte, Hera, Asherah, Frigg, Hera, Juno, Mary and Brigid etc.

You can find the Goddess Queen-of-the-Great-Region and her two snakes in the night skies in summertime when you look up to the western edge of the Milky Way you’ll see the star groups of Scorpio and Sagittarius – She is just above them as She has always been and She will be wearing her 7 point crown.

www.celticdruidtemple.com...


Im sure kantz has linked Scorpio and goddess too in the past.

a reply to: Wifibrains

That was a good read, thanks for posting it.

Ophiuchus and some of the fixed stars in it were sometimes used by some astrologers in antiquity as extra-zodiacal indicators (i.e. astrologically significant celestial phenomena lying outside of the 12-sign zodiac proper). The constellation is described in the astrological poem of Marcus Manilius: the Astronomica, which is dated to around 10 AD. The poem describes how:
Ophiuchus holds apart the serpent which with its mighty spirals and twisted body encircles his own, so that he may untie its knots and back that winds in loops. But, bending its supple neck, the serpent looks back and returns: and the other's hands slide over the loosened coils. The struggle will last forever, since they wage it on level terms with equal powers".[2]

wiki

So known of in 10AD? Now that is interesting. Also interesting how the author in your site linked Bride/Brigid with the constellation.

In a similar vein:

The constellation of Gemini is seen by the Celts not as twins but as two men battling over the love of a woman. They are Gwyn and Gwyrthur, the sons of Greidawl who seek the hand of the lady in red, Creudyladd. Ladies in red are seen in modern times as of dubious repute, but in ancient times red was the colour a bride wore as an outward expression of her virginity. This story has become synonymous with Sir Gawain and the Green Knight in Arthurian legend and is referred to in the folk song, “Green grow the rushes oh”.

In Celtic traditions, Gwyn and Gwyrthur are known as the “Rivals of May” and are interpreted as being the light and dark halves of the year battling it out as they set at midnight on the first of May, the Celtic feast of Beltane, the start of the summer season and hence important agriculturally for the growth and harvest of crops.

Under A Celtic Sky

So gemini possibly too? I will check and then post the disc centres!

Hmm, not that Z-roddy, really.

a reply to: beansidhe

The only z rod connection I have been able to make is with Ophiuchus being portrayed as a character in Greek mythology who receives a lightning bolt in angst from Zeus. Taking into account the above article I posted, it made me think of this...



There is some loose correlation for the reasons as to why and with the time of Samhain, ie necromancey and Samhain's modern symbolism as in Halloween ect. It's probably all connected, somehow lost in translation...

These seem to be going in opposite directions:



But these aren't:









eta

The only z rod connection I have been able to make is with Ophiuchus being portrayed as a character in Greek mythology who receives a lightning bolt in angst from Zeus. Taking into account the above article I posted, it made me think of this...

What was that story about a stone, way back in this thread, showing the snake and Z rod, about a dragon being killed? Maybe that is a contellation story. I'm going to find it.

a reply to: beansidhe

In Celtic traditions, Gwyn and Gwyrthur are known as the “Rivals of May” and are interpreted as being the light and dark halves of the year battling it out as they set at midnight on the first of May

Men eh?

My guess is she would be there for the winner and the loser regardless...

a reply to: Wifibrains


Probably she would.

A farmer in Pitumpton, blessed with nine lovely daughters, one day sent one of them to the well to fetch him a draught of water; she not returning, another was sent to learn the cause of delay, and to hasten the gratification of the farmer with the coveted draught. Neither of them returning, daughter after daughter was sent, till the whole nine had been despatched on the same errand. The astounded father at length followed them, and was horrified with the spectacle which met his eyes: his nine daughters lay dead at the well, and two large snakes were throwing their slimy folds around them. The reptiles, on seeing him, hissed loudly, and would have made him their prey also if he had not saved himself by flight. The whole neighbourhood assembled in a state of the utmost excitement, and a young man, the suitor of one of the sisters, boldly attacked the snakes, and wounded both. They left their victims, and, wriggling their way towards the hills, hotly pursued by the youth and his companions, were destroyed near the base of the Sidlaws.’

The above account has the nine maidens being killed by two snakes, where as other and more popular versions have the well being guarded by a dragon. The young snake/dragon slayer is usually referred to as being called Martin and according to legend Strathmartin (or perhaps Strike Martin, as the crowd is thought to have cheered during the battle) is named for him.

Mysterious Britain

I just found that with the ATS search (p25, by the way) in about 2 seconds. Why do people moan that the search is crap? It's really good.

I need to go in a minute, so I'll come back to this properly, but TWO large snakes? Hang on...

On the stone you can see a horse rider - the hero - chasing away two 'dragons' (snake and afanc).

Consider again the Hu Gadarn story:

In Welsh folk tales, Hu Gadarn rescues the land from a fearful monster, the Afanc (associated with Scorpius). He drew the Afanc out of Llyn Llion by use of his oxen and dragged it to Llyn y Ffynnon Las, where it is magically imprisoned. As the scorpion is unknown in western Europe, the Greek constellation of Scorpius became the Afanc or Beaver to the Celts.

Scorpio we know is connected to upcoming floods, winter, death - the hero here, like Hu Gadarn - chases it away, or kills it in this story. He is young, the new fresh year replacing the old father, like in so many of these stories. So what is the snake and Z rod? Something else that gets chased away to bring in the new year? And nine daughters?

In Ireland, the attendants at St Brigid’s sacred fire at Kildare are sometimes said to be nine, though sometimes nineteen. Brigid also is said to have gone to Scotland with Nine Maidens to found Abernethy, just as Monenna is said to have come from Ireland with nine female companions.[10] St Brigid appears to have been modelled on the earlier goddess figure Brìde, who was also indigenous to Scotland [11][12] and may well have been the tutelary goddess of the Brigantes in North West England.[13]

Nine maidens - wiki

Bride is the summer face of the Cailleach, remember -and she is linked to 9 girls. Bride's day, the 1st of Feb is also known as Imbolc, the first day of spring.

Imbolc is strongly associated with Saint Brigid (Old Irish: Brigit, modern Irish: Bríd, modern Scottish Gaelic: Brìghde or Brìd, anglicised Bridget). Saint Brigid is thought to have been based on Brigid, a Gaelic goddess.[20] The festival, which celebrates the onset of spring, is thought to be linked with Brigid in her role as a fertility goddess.[15] On Imbolc Eve, Brigid was said to visit virtuous households and bless the inhabitants.[21] As Brigid represented the light half of the year, and the power that will bring people from the dark season of winter into spring, her presence was very important at this time of year.[2][22]

So the story, and therefore the stone, seems to me to be telling the story of the start of the young year and chasing out the old winter except that in this version the goddess is superceded by a male hero. A later Christianised version, maybe?

a reply to: beansidhe

St Patrick?

a reply to: Wifibrains

And Columba....

There are also many stories of miracles which he performed during his work to convert the Picts, the most famous being his encounter with an unidentified animal that some have equated with the Loch Ness Monster in 565. It is said that he banished a ferocious "water beast" (afanc/kelpie?) to the depths of the River Ness after it had killed a Pict and then tried to attack Columba's disciple (see Vita Columbae Book 2 below).

a reply to: beansidhe

Yep, it folds right back to here does it not?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

...And every single thing in his-story turns into a conspiracy.. Lol.

a reply to: beansidhe

I read something earlier that was kind of a description of this stone...

By the American theosophy society regarding lattice geometry and spirit summoning. It described three levels of trance. This is pretty much a description of stage one. Ima see if I can find it...


Edit:...

Here...

Neuropsychological research distinguishes three overlapping yet discernible stages of trance experience. These begin with the “seeing” of geometric forms, such as dots, circles, crescents, zigzags, grids, or parallel and wavy lines. These forms, called phosphenes, have a luminous, brightly colored, pulsating character that fluctuates and metamorphoses. When the subject's eyes are open, these phosphenes are seen as though projected transparently upon surfaces such as rock walls. In the second stage of trance condition, some forms are given more significance than others and are seen as images of objects: A crescent may be a bowl, a zigzag may be a snake, and a grid a ladder. The third stage is entered by way of a tunnel or vortex experience, at the end of which a bright light is seen. The geometric forms of stage one transform into the lattice structure of the vortex into which the subject is pulled. Animal, human, and anthropozoomorphic figures begin to appear. Subjects feel by this third stage that they can fly and turn into animals or birds. Subjects become what they “see.”

www.theosophical.org...

a reply to: Wifibrains

Yes it seems to be verifying your site's thinking, certainly. How exciting!



If you look closely you can see Opiuchus/Bride stomping his/her foot on Scorpio's tail! Definitely a controller or destroyer of Winter.

Actually, Bride's cross is a bit like a Z rod:

Just one more:

Fionn McCoole had Dragons as his belt as Kuno Meyer tells us – “and about his waist he put a stout corset with a decorated, firm belt with gruesome images of dragons, so that it reached from the thick of his thighs to his arm-pit, whence spears and blades would rebound”.

Now we can suggest that Fionn / Finn was the star group Orion who had Dragons as a girdle or belt. Hydra and Serpens are the two ‘dragon star groups’ in the belt of stars we call the zodiac. The northern star group Draco (Dragon) could also be a part of this coded star lore / mythology. The Dragon being wrestled by Ophiochas that rises from the Scorpion up to the Crown of the Queen of Heaven (Corona Borealis) makes 4 Dragon star groups in the upper part of the globe.

All these star Dragons get touched by Finn as he returns each winter to the dark skies. In 21/12/2012 Finn / Orion reached his zenith touching a special part of the sky beginning a new cycle of time. It will be 25000 years before Finn touches the same place again.

www.celticdruidtemple.com...

This might make Finn a latter day Cerunnos? Under a Celtic Sky writer has Cerunnos as Orion; Finn would be a good match.

Hi Beans / WiFi,

I'm just letting you know that I'm still here!! (Lurking!) and enjoying the new posts!

(I come from a wee village just outside East Kilbride! (Church of St.Bride) co-incidence???? LOL)

Keep up the good work!

G

a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

Gordi!! Hello, always nice to see you! I'm glad you're around because you always spot what I miss, so it's great to know you're not too far away. And good to know you are a child of Bride - always good to have her on side.

B x

I haven't done a runner from this thread, i have been searching up some stuff regarding my threads and am just weaving a lil something together. Seems it might fit in here in a slightly differing context too tho. just to be sure and to work out some mechanics, we have Opiuchus/Bride, just before winters solstice, and am I correct in stating directly opposite is orion?

Also has the constellation orion even been, or also been known as a female figure? If so, this could lead to the validity of Opiuchus being a dual sign along with orion, and/or towards a patriarchal cover up.

I always thought the Orion Nebula looked like a hooded woman in red dress and cape.



This will be good, but it would be nice if we could clarify these two opposit signs times of year and meaning first.