Deciphering the Pagan Stones

originally posted by: Logarock

This isn't good. Doesn't sound like you. Sounds like one of those pat canned deals! Naturally everyone is not going to agree. One theory is never as good as another except at a dead end. We all have to believe that or there is no need to go on.

I read that back - I must have been feeling a bit gloomy when I wrote it. What I meant was ours is just as good as theirs, ie I'll stick with ours, thank you very much, celtic linguists.
We're nowhere near a dead end yet, if anything I feel like we have only half the picture. There's loads more to look into - I still haven't finished researching the Hebr-ides yet, and the etymology for that. The same islands where Jesus is alleged to have visited, no less!

a reply to: Logarock
Yea the Welsh still say or ask on occasion if one is a comrade

I'm a 45 year old Welshman and have never heard anyone say that in wales.

is this that stone that aligns with the moon above a certain mountain on Midsummer Night?

a reply to: jackj

Are you thinking of the Callanish stone on Lewis? A ray of sunlight passes through the stones at dawn on midsummer there.



No, we're not focussing on stones that early - it seems fairly certain that they were calendar stones. We're thinking about the carved Pict stones from much later on, like this one.

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: Ramcheck

Wow, that's a kind of in-your-face-site, is it not (might explain my hook nose though, lol!)?

These beliefs, these 'myths' people carry are so important to us, because they are prevalent and because they mean something to the people who passed them on to their children. You know, I was reading last night again, more from Ralston McLeod (who was and still might be a professor of Celtic studies at Glasgow Uni) about how the Vatican have documents pertaining to the Virgin Mary's bones being buried under a Welsh church in Anglesey.
It's a long story, but basically there used to be pilgrimages there by early saints. One priest tried to investigate and took it to the Vatican and they were enraged by him. He was in disgrace and put out the church, but he vowed that he had read enough to be certain. The Vatican had recently announced that the ascension of Mary was real -she'd gone up to heaven, so there were no bones, so they were just infuriated by this fellow who was showing them up.
He lost his job, his dignity, his reputation because the facts he read were not in agreement with the Vatican's opinion.

I'm going back to read more of that blog you linked

I was wondering when this would come up

I have a lot of catching up to do......hope it rains soon so I can just sit down start from page 1 and make notes as I go along.

Rainbows
Jane

originally posted by: urbanghost
a reply to: Logarock
Yea the Welsh still say or ask on occasion if one is a comrade

I'm a 45 year old Welshman and have never heard anyone say that in wales.

I'm Welsh (north) and never heard it either....and I'm just over 50!

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: beansidhe

I read through the Last of the Druids sight a little. I'm not sure if you've covered these aspects yet, but he is talking about Scorpio being a stag instead of a scorpion. I came to this same conclusion but from a different angle.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/bf53301279.jpg[/atsimg]

I believe that this stele is one of the earliest Hebrew symbols we have

The overlay between the hebrew encampment which is zodiacal, mainly of the 4 heads of the cherubim, and the Qodesh Stele is almost perfect, except Resheph's symbol is not a serpent or an eagle, or a scorpion for that matter. No its a gazelle(antelope). Now a gazelle is not the same as a deer, but they look fairly similar, with their long antlers, and in the bible they are often equated or mentioned together.

Deer wiki

Male deer of all species (except the Chinese water deer) and female reindeer grow and shed new antlers each year, thereby differing from such permanently horned animals as antelope, which are in the same order as deer and may be superficially similar.

The word "deer" was originally broader in meaning, but became more specific over time. In Middle English, der (Old English dēor) meant a wild animal of any kind. This was as opposed to cattle, which then meant any sort of domestic livestock that was easy to collect and remove from the land,

Venison originally described meat of any game animal killed by hunting,[5] and was applied to any animal from the families Cervidae (deer), Leporidae (hares), and Suidae (wild pigs), and certain species of the genus Capra (goats and ibex),

a reply to: angelchemuel

Have you heard of the Anglesey story? What do you make of it?

a reply to: zardust

Now that is interesting. We touched on it earlier, when we were thinking about constellations. If I remember rightly, he has the boar and deer both as constellations, which we don't have now.
There was something I read very recently which cited Twrch Trwyth, the boar in the King Arthur (II) stories as representing a constellation. It's one of those things which is in the 'possibly' camp in my head right now, but there's other deer possibilities too. Diana (moon goddess) is represented by a deer, for example.

The fact you've come to this by your own path is definitely worth noting though - it adds to it's validity. I thought you might enjoy his site!

originally posted by: angelchemuel

originally posted by: urbanghost
a reply to: Logarock
Yea the Welsh still say or ask on occasion if one is a comrade

I'm a 45 year old Welshman and have never heard anyone say that in wales.

I'm Welsh (north) and never heard it either....and I'm just over 50!

Rainbows
Jane

Maybe its just those crazy Welsh Nationalists!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ma5358f059.jpg[/atsimg]

This god, known as ‘Cernunnos’, whose name according to Miranda Green in her Dictionary of Celtic Myth and Legend means ‘horned or peaked one’, is depicted usually with antlers on his head, and sometimes with the ears of a stag. He often holds a snake or ram-horned snake. He is seated in a lotus or cross-legged pose reminiscent of the gods from the Indian subcontinent.

See any similarities between this image of Cerunnos, aka the buddha, Thoth, Hermes, Nebo, Moses... and Qodesh above?

Horned, holding a snake in the left hand, with 4 beasts surrounding (the 2 men are beasts in the QDS stele) also the lotus position of Cerunos vs. Qodesh holding a lotus in her opposite hand.

I think the image of Cerunnos is an older symbol because the wild animal/venison symbolism is the oldest in the world.

Ibex/Tree of Life

The significance of the early appearance of the ibex lies in the symbolic message which this animal clearly carried: Samarran ware consistently shows this caprid with long, branch-like antlers (1).3 That these antlers represent the so-called Tree of Life or Sacred Tree is shown by a further example, this time from the Iranian Plateau, c4500 BC, in which the antler-trees dominate the entiremotif (2). In other words, the ibex—in both the North Mesopotamian and the Iranian plateaux—arrives full-blown onto the stage carrying an already well-developed symbol of fertility.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/bk53357343.jpg[/atsimg]

Look at number one, and the depiction of the antlers alongside of Cerunnos.

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: zardust

Now that is interesting. We touched on it earlier, when we were thinking about constellations. If I remember rightly, he has the boar and deer both as constellations, which we don't have now.
There was something I read very recently which cited Twrch Trwyth, the boar in the King Arthur (II) stories as representing a constellation. It's one of those things which is in the 'possibly' camp in my head right now, but there's other deer possibilities too. Diana (moon goddess) is represented by a deer, for example.

The fact you've come to this by your own path is definitely worth noting though - it adds to it's validity. I thought you might enjoy his site!

Diana is Artemis, the twin of Apollo. Apollo=Resheph

Check out this thread Reptilian Labyrinth for more stag connections, and he addresses Arthur as constellations in there somewhere.

a reply to: zardust

I do see similarities, yes. On the Gundestruup cauldron (which as you know is not Pictish per se, but Danish- dan-ish-), notice also the strange flowers. These appear on Pict stones:





Earlier on, we wondered if they were mandrakes, which coincidentally (or not) are also the same symbol for the tribe of Reuben. Link

In your picture, what is she said to be holding? Lotus? I wonder if there's any connection between lotus and mandrake, other than, I suppose, northern Celts wouldn't be familiar with lotus?

a reply to: Logarock

The double disc has become the twin discs of royalty? Woah.
Let me check up on some Scottish monarchy things, here!! This looks good.

a reply to: beansidhe


Hay if one were to take those pyramids and put them together, one upside down, you have the star of David as it is called. Some say that the star is a blending, male and female aspects. Anyway, how's the weather in Scotland today?

I watched a video yesterday showing aincient serpent symbolism and saw a pair of discs that the above picture resembled (to me) it had snakes instead of flower.


a screen shot...





youtu.be...

The flower like structures protruding from the top... worm holes again, possibly? I say that in comparison to the above dbl disc.


As for it being a lotus flower.. There are lots in this egyptian picture, often the lotus flower is related the the third eye or pineal gland.

a reply to: Logarock

Yes, you would. Like the one found on a class 4 stone in Orkney?



Weather is gorgeous here thanks. The tulips are out, the cherry trees are in flower, it's a beautiful day. How about you?

a reply to: Wifibrains

Hey Wifi. That looks Norse to me (I'm such a stone nerd) and I'm going to check it out, because it's a dead match. I wonder when it dates from, whether before, during or after the Pict stones. In other words, did they take it from the Picts or did the Picts inherit it. Or were they simultaneous?

Interesting that the tree of life is beneath it too, much like:



Mandrake and lotus both have spiritual/magical qualities - I wonder if the former is the Northern equivalent?

a reply to: Wifibrains

Your last post was great! Good solid iconographic stuff there.