Hating America! **On Fox Channel** over now

Yeah ... it is on conspiracies ... Even when we went to Korea ... we just like to send our troops over to places and watch them die off one by one .... We love to bomb people and then to make it good send thousands of dallars in support to help the same #in people that we just bombed out. Because the rest of the world sais oh wait look what you did these people are dying and the people that were supported by the monsters that you killed are dying now. Well # the monster and # the little people that run with the monsters of the world. B/c I think the U.S. shows bomb some little Russian school we don't care .. do whatver you want over in whereever ... but don't #in come in our country ever EVER !!!Ever !!




EVER !

WOW ... i started looking for things to quote and just gave up ... there were too many ...

To me Ed seems to be the embodyment of what he says the European hate so much. You could have atleast given a brief overview of the program that you started this thread with instead of crying out "gotcha".

When reading through this thread one miniseries popped into mind, that many of you have undoubtedly already seen, "The Power of Nightmares, The Rise of the Politics of Fear".

Being from a country that used to be a part of the Soviet Union (occupied by it to be more exact) Ed's comment on what brought Gorbachev to the table sounded especially weird ... i guess you were one of those people who believed the goverment propaganda with Rumsfeld in the lead saying that the SU was as powerful as ever? Actually the truth was far from that, the system ate itself from within and took a collision course before that. Gorb. was just a guy with an open mind who saw that there was no possibility of keeping up the stagnant machine and started a process of reforms ... the US and their missiles had very little to do with that. Russia just didn't have the finances of maintaining itself.

You must've been the same kind of # that the people here were fed during the 50-70s about the western world ...

Anyways, the thought of the whole thing being an inside job occurred also to me, and i didn't read any conspiracy sites but put this together from different sources (including your beloved and 'honest' CNN). However viewing the miniseries mentioned above gave the thought some explanaitons.

I'm just glad that i consciously watch out for stereotyping ... you would be a really bad source for a stereotype

Originally posted by monty11
...
Being from a country that used to be a part of the Soviet Union (occupied by it to be more exact) Ed's comment on what brought Gorbachev to the table sounded especially weird ... i guess you were one of those people who believed the goverment propaganda with Rumsfeld in the lead saying that the SU was as powerful as ever? Actually the truth was far from that, the system ate itself from within and took a collision course before that. Gorb. was just a guy with an open mind who saw that there was no possibility of keeping up the stagnant machine and started a process of reforms ... the US and their missiles had very little to do with that. Russia just didn't have the finances of maintaining itself.
...

Glad to see people now free from inside the former Iron Curtain, as we called it, dispelling the BS myth that Reagan brought down the SU. Now people can see that the republicans BLEW all of our future on unnecessary war, corporations and propaganda. With all of the wasted hardware we built that sits in a dessert boneyard wasting away and record deficits AGAIN, it's no wonder there's so much animosity towards US.

Originally posted by edsinger
First, he was not the first person at all, but one of the first to publish a book on the subject and mislead millions in the process.


Fox News is the worst? We I totally disagree, the main 3 are so damn biased that you sould watch Fox just to get the other side of the story.


The reason that we do not see coffins is by executive order. Are your so morbid that you need to see them? the body count is available and that should suffice. Personally I think it is a good idea not to show them because of the propaganda that will come from the pictures. The folks who died deserve more respect than that.

?
I'm sorry, but I just can't stomach OReily and that bunch, I don't hold a lot of reguard for the other three either. Media should be independant, not state or corporate run.

That excutive order was basicly sensorship to cover up the failure in this adm.
I have a lot of respect and admoration for the people over their even if it was the wrong war. Seeing the coffins is just a reminder to stop a moment and pay respect for the people losing lives over there. Proper news stories on the arrival of the war dead is not morbid, searching the internet for movies of beheadings is morbid. The media just needs to stick to journalism and stop the Shock and Awe sensationalism.

You both are dead wrong, the USSR in the Ealry 80's was not bankrupt YET!

The Reagan Defense buildup is what did it, the USA went from ~4% GNP on Defense to about 6%, in order for the USSR to keep up and counter things like Star Wars they went from ~17% to over 26%. The economy could not take it any longer. It would have eventually failed but the 80's made is happen much much faster.

And the comment about the Pershing II's and GLCM's was dead on. That is what bought Gorby to Iceland and that is what started the ball a rolling.

This is known history....


But I guess the left leaning folks would claim is is something else. I expect no less...

Originally posted by edsinger
You both are dead wrong, the USSR in the Ealry 80's was not bankrupt YET!

The Reagan Defense buildup is what did it, the USA went from ~4% GNP on Defense to about 6%, in order for the USSR to keep up and counter things like Star Wars they went from ~17% to over 26%. The economy could not take it any longer. It would have eventually failed but the 80's made is happen much much faster.

And the comment about the Pershing II's and GLCM's was dead on. That is what bought Gorby to Iceland and that is what started the ball a rolling.

This is known history....


But I guess the left leaning folks would claim is is something else. I expect no less...

I doubt the military hooha had that much to do with it. Your statement " USSR in the Ealry 80's was not bankrupt YET!" says it all. It more than likely stemmed from the US pressure in the 60's and 70's that had the major effect. But one of the major factors was the foreign policies of Jimmy Carter that made to most effect. With the world uniting on outside of the Iron Curtain, imports into the SU became more expensive, including the tension in the Caspean Sea, a major route for oil imports. SDI was never going to work and spies in the US were telling the Kremlin that it wouldn't. I have to give some credit for Reagan keeping the pressure on and helping to pull the already loosened cork. If you really think about it, it was a united american and allied front that did the job, something the current admin needs to learn. Ed, just like we need you and other conservative thinkers to stay on this board, we Lefties, as you call us, need the convservative Right to maintain even keel. This is why we also need news actors to be replaced with journalists.

Originally posted by AlabamaCajun
With all of the wasted hardware we built that sits in a dessert boneyard wasting away and record deficits AGAIN, it's no wonder there's so much animosity towards US.

I wouldn't worry about the wasted hardware if I were you . We have got china next to fend off from being no1. So we might have a good time after all!!
I think the guys at the Pentagon are itching to get a cold war going again - gives them purpose to spend billions on inventing new ways to kill people slowly and painfully and to cap it off we have got the Republicans ( like prophet George W) to help them along the way!

Originally posted by AlabamaCajun
I doubt the military hooha had that much to do with it. Your statement " USSR in the Ealry 80's was not bankrupt YET!" says it all. It more than likely stemmed from the US pressure in the 60's and 70's that had the major effect. But one of the major factors was the foreign policies of Jimmy Carter that made to most effect. With the world uniting on outside of the Iron Curtain, imports into the SU became more expensive, including the tension in the Caspean Sea, a major route for oil imports. SDI was never going to work and spies in the US were telling the Kremlin that it wouldn't. I have to give some credit for Reagan keeping the pressure on and helping to pull the already loosened cork. If you really think about it, it was a united american and allied front that did the job, something the current admin needs to learn. Ed, just like we need you and other conservative thinkers to stay on this board, we Lefties, as you call us, need the convservative Right to maintain even keel. This is why we also need news actors to be replaced with journalists.

The Success of Carter????



I wont even comment on this rubbish...

Laugh all you want, I voted for Reagan twice (Shame on me), but the facts are still there and I stand firm on that ground. Because of all the scandles and tongue wagging that the GOP has done though corporate media I have absolutly no faith in them. I call this the dumb-down factor, distract people the media entertaining news while runnning amuck with political scandals, It's been going on longer that most of us have been alive. Nixon just opened it all up, Reagon turned a blind eye or mind to it, Bush I perpetuated it, Newt through fuel on it and Bush II and gang went all out. You're selling out your freedom to it.

I am not seeling out my freedom at all, times change and we need to do what it takes. The Only way to end the 'losses' of freedom is to round up the malcontents and deport them. I do not think that is a good idea.


Carter??

Originally posted by edsinger
I am not seeling out my freedom at all, times change and we need to do what it takes. The Only way to end the 'losses' of freedom is to round up the malcontents and deport them. I do not think that is a good idea.


Carter??

You don't like innocent people being deported based completely on stereotypes? Then you must not have voted for Bush, right?

Hello all,
The AlabamanCajun mentioned Fox news channel was the most biased news channel. All news channels just like points of views are biased. Thats why the best way to get information is to due your research yourself, or get the information from several different sources. One of the most watched news channels (CBS news) and trusted anchors (Dan Rather) got in trouble for breaking a story from forged documents and presenting it as true, part of the reason mr. rather is retiring. In an ideal world all news channel would be objective, not liberal or conservative but would just present the facts without twisting it the way they see fit.
As for the way the rest of the world sees America, there is a bias in parts of the world towards the United States. As has been said in the above posts its not all the people in all the world, just select groups. Anti-American voices have just became louder due to the fact President Bush is changing the way America approaches the world. The United States has always tried to be everything to all nations, which the other nations do not necessarily appreciate. It would be like comparing the United States to the kid in school who puts his nose in everyones business trying to fix problems, causes more than it solves. In the last 4 years George W has stopped playing defense and gone after potential threats. In the years after 9/11 you have not seen another terror attack on american soil. The aspect that the United States citizens need to understand is a large portion of the world see democracy as weakness. Tribal nations only understand power. America is finally taking a proactive stance instead of constantly playing defense.
There is a large movement in the United States that believes United States should have had the UN deal with Iraq. The fact is every country in the UN is looking out whats best for them, and whats best for them is not always whats best for the US. For example, Germany and France opposed the United States going into Iraq, but come to find out it was due to the fact they were selling weapons to iraq and maintaining there war machines. Winston Churchill once said, "speak softly and carry a big stick". Though in an ideal world democracy would work 100% of the time, there is a time for diplomacy and a time for action. I believe the United States has had enough and that is what scares a large portion of the world.
As for leaders who helped bring down the SU, it was a large number of policies and presidents, with the help the russian currency was largely just traded among itself, not allowing the economy to grow as fast as the arms race pushed it too. Too much focus on parties is no good for any country, you should believe in/vote for the person who you believe will do the most good, from policies to action.

Thank You
The new kid



[edit on 26-11-2004 by ItWasntMe]

[edit on 26-11-2004 by ItWasntMe]

Originally posted by keke
You don't like innocent people being deported based completely on stereotypes? Then you must not have voted for Bush, right?

That is outlandish to say the least. Bush wants 'worker visa's' remember?

Originally posted by ItWasntMe
The aspect that the United States citizens need to understand is a large portion of the world see democracy as weakness. Tribal nations only understand power. America is finally taking a proactive stance instead of constantly playing defense.

I think you are correct in this assessment.