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Originally posted by billybob
geez, i think you're a machine, muaddib(is that from 'dune'? are you 'the messiah'?). you're in the army for crissakes. how much MORE machine-like could you possibly be? you volunteered to be a mere cog in a great machine. you are a machine. face it and weep.
i see your posts. you refuse to look at any evidence that detracts from the mainstream line. you refuse to acknowledge facts that don't support your worldview, and you rely on rhetoric to make your 'argument'.
real communism HAS never been tried. communism as the world has seen it, has just been more of the same, ...top-down pyramid control structures. you should have bitten the bias the lotus created, and listened to what the man was saying.
Originally posted by Muaddib
If he was wearing a pro Bush shirt at school he would be either sent home or told to do the same.... Just like at the voting polls or churches etc, you can't wear "clothing or any other item with slogans of any political side...." The propaganda in that shirt is teaching hatred, and it surely would have started some kind of fight sooner or later. I never in my life wore any t-shirts with political slogans while i was going to school, not even in college and I can't remember any other kids wearing any other slogans either.... and we were not and did not become "machines"....
Originally posted by Muaddib
it is not a suppression of awareness soficrow.... Is avoiding conflicts within the school system, so that kids "learn" what needs to be taught in school. School teaches about US history, but it has never, and it should never be a place for teaching the ideologies of any political parties.
Originally posted by jmilici
Originally posted by groingrinder
I saw a kid wearing a shirt that said. "JESUS IS A C*U*N*T" Should that shirt be allowed in school too??
[edit on 11-22-2004 by groingrinder]
Read my post will ya! There is profanity in that shirt so not it should not be allowed. Also thier is supposed to be a separation of church and state in anything funded by the government. Well jesus falls under church and public school falls under state. Again I am for the constitution. That means everything.
Originally posted by Muaddib
The fact is soficrof that people can't really talk about politics, without showing their bias towards their own political affiliations....
These people most likely will put emphasis on their own "ideologies/religions...." sooner or later. It is a fact of life.
[edit on 24-11-2004 by Muaddib]
Originally posted by Muaddib
There is a difference between teaching and indoctrination... Making schools a political battleground will certainly make education become indoctrination. When you start to brainwash people, you start with the young.... Children can learn a lot of things without being indoctrinated into a political system.
maudib
It would be the same as telling a Christian to teach children about the way of life of Buddhism
These people most likely will put emphasis on their own "ideologies/religions...." sooner or later. It is a fact of life.
Making schools a political battleground will certainly make education become indoctrination.
When you start to brainwash people, you start with the young....
"I think they violated my rights because I wore the shirt to express my opinion, that we shouldn't have gone to war," Truszkowski said.
Student apparel that is distracting, hinders the educational process or "advertises, glorifies or symbolizes any illegal substances, contains derogatory phrases, profanity or glorifies violence or criminal behavior" is not permitted to be worn, according to the Appoquinimink School District dress code.
While the dress code does not specifically address clothing with a political message, the shirt is clearly inappropriate, said Lillian Miles, Appoquinimink district spokeswoman. She said several students have complained about the shirt.
"At this point, the shirt has now become a distraction," she said.
Originally posted by jsobecky
So are we supposed to ignore these students' right to pursue an education free of distraction?
Maybe an extra-curricular discussion club would work.
Originally posted by billybob
thank you. you've made my point. i wish you understood what you are saying.
only this part doesn't make sense...."Making schools a political battleground will certainly make education become indoctrination." there is no conflict in indoctrination. indocrination is achieved by constant repetition. when you have a 'dialogue', you are able to put a thesis against an antithesis, and can achieve a synthesis, which is a compromise agreeable to both the thesis and antithesis. this process allows greater understanding of the whole.
nobody is advocating that schools become a 'battleground'. we are advocating that ideas should be free to roam the hallowed halls of acedemia.
the only political system kids will be indoctrinated into is DEMOCRACY. i wouldn't be surprised if you think that's a bad thing.
edited, because i can't discuss education seriously with the phrase 'this part is doesn't make sense', or the word 'becomae'.
edited, because i can't discuss education seriously with the phrase 'this part is doesn't make sense', or the word 'becomae'.
Originally posted by soficrow
Yes, it would be - and many Christians do this. Some teach their children, others wait until the kids reach college and study theology or comparative religions. FYI - any person who graduates from a respected college to become a Christian preacher or leader does not do so without having learned about all the other religions in the world.
Originally posted by soficrow
I agree but unlike you, it's the influence of corporatism in the schools that I resent. :: ....Kidding aside, most teachers do honestly try to be balanced. Even so, their personal bias probably does show through - so we can only trust that democracy will work and a balance will be achieved - over time if not in a particular class. ...Kids are told how the government works and also what the parties are, with a bit of history. This is not bad. It is only when kids are given restricted, one-sided information and prevented from discussing things openly that you have censorship - which is the key to tyranny and totalitarianism.
Originally posted by soficrow
Talking about different things does not make a battleground. ...It is only when people have NOT learned to deal with difference that they are threatened and react with hostility. I think most kids naturally try to be "fair" - they have a strong sense of justice and work hard to protect that for everyone. It is only later that this changes.
Originally posted by soficrow
Indoctrination is when people are NOT allowed choices, or to talk openly about different things or to learn about them, or to argue their own point of view. ...What you are saying is indoctrination is actually the opposite - and what you are presenting as the way to avoid indoctrination is an exact description of the process of indoctrination.
Originally posted by soficrow
This is true - and you brainwash children (and adults) by censoring the information that's available to them, and preventing them from learning about different ways of looking at, thinking about and responding to different things.
The only way to avoid brainwashing - in the schools and elsewhere - is to provide kids with a taste of ALL the information, teach them to research, analyze, think critically and act responsibly, and then let them free to do it.