God exists as an omniscient and omnipotent conscious being.

reply to post by GodIsRelative

Edit: It's really more like being cold and being afraid of the fire.

So you're saying the people that disbelieve in god's existence are afraid of god?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

there are atheists in foxholes. This thread I linked proves it.

reply to post by GodIsRelative


Thanks for proving to me that Spiderman is real. Also leprechauns and unicorns and the tooth fairy. I guess according to your argument, they are all real.

reply to post by GodIsRelative

Something does not spontaneously come from nothing, or if it does, this phenomena has not been observed anywhere in nature.

Ex nihilo nihil fit. Only nothing can come from nothing. Since God comes from nothing, God is nothing. Consequently, the universe comes from something, maybe a cause, but like every cause it is over the moment it begins.

There's is simply zero imperical evidence that God exist's. Nor is than any imperical evidence that he does not exist. Millinium old arguement. But, as time pass's us all by, the evidence that there is no god is gaining plenty of ground. You can beleive in any thing you want. I choose to live in reality and reality & logic say's God is imaginary being created by man, for man, to controll man. Question: If God does exist, why does he let "innocence suffer in such horrilble ways" IE: child murder, war, famine, disease, molestations etc, etc , etc.

Any god that could stop all that and choose's not to, is no god I would want to worship nor beleive in. Sort of hyocritical of god after all the bible say's about him/her and the love he/she has for his/her creations. Actually it's cruel & sadistic. I don't want to hear it's all part of his/her plan. If in fact there is a god, and he/she has a plan for each of us, then is god not responsable for every death that has ever accured on earth? If so god is responsable for every abortion that has ever taken place since the dawn of time. He's also the reason we had Stalin, Hitler, Saddam, Assad, etc.etc.etc.

reply to post by GodIsRelative


Then you propose that televisions are portals in to other universes?

Pretty sure this thread was created as a counter-balance to the "God doesn't exist" thread that was made either yesterday or the day before, anyway. It's not like there was any reason to post this other than to reiterate the same worn-out cases we've chewed to oblivion again and again. Just one more demonstration of how fruitless the whole argument is. No one is going to be convinced one way or the other.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Yeah. But, remember, AftIn, that there are new people looking at religion, faith, and theology every day - with the world climate the way it is, I'm not surprised....

Whether just-joined members, or used-to-not-care, veteran members -
these questions will never go away.

Agree with Openyourmind, the question is no longer whether God exists but whether He is the sort that should be supported.

He is as you say omniscient, all knowing, past, present and future- so for a start free will is an illusion, he knows how He made us and knows how we will react. My other issue- why did He make us aggresive pack animals, who's natural instinct is to hunt, fight and kill. Why not make us more docile herbivores with brilliant brains. He knew we would tear ourselves and the Earth apart and has watched from afar. It is like a parent giving a child, a bottle of petrol, and some matches and then wondering why the house has burnt down and the child has been kilked. Your All supreme being must be accountable for this He knew what would happen (back to omniscient)

GodIsRelative
Argument number two: If there is no Supreme Being, why do so many believe in one?

Your argument that things cant come from nothing would make a good discussion and I agree with it. However, this 'argument' does not make a good point. "If there is no supreme being, why do so many believe in one?' What people believe is irrelevant in regards to truth. Lots of people around the world believe in things that are false. Example - Muslims, Jews and many Christians believe in Noahs Ark, and yet we know for a fact that it didn't happen. Truth is truth ... what large numbers of people believe or disbelieve doesnt' change truth.

templar knight
Agree with Openyourmind, the question is no longer whether God exists but whether He is the sort that should be supported.

He is as you say omniscient, all knowing, past, present and future- so for a start free will is an illusion, he knows how He made us and knows how we will react. My other issue- why did He make us aggresive pack animals, who's natural instinct is to hunt, fight and kill. Why not make us more docile herbivores with brilliant brains. He knew we would tear ourselves and the Earth apart and has watched from afar. It is like a parent giving a child, a bottle of petrol, and some matches and then wondering why the house has burnt down and the child has been kilked. Your All supreme being must be accountable for this He knew what would happen (back to omniscient)

I love your question. The answer is beautiful. He made us both, and lets us decide which side wins. And we haven't burned the house down yet, so I don't think you made your point.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You guys just can't get over the foxhole thing, can you? For one thing, it's a metaphor. For another, it just plain doesn't matter.

As for what does matter, yes, Spiderman, leprechauns and fairies are all real. They may not be physical creatures in our universe, but that doesn't mean they do not exist. If they don't exist, how are we talking about them?

Another poster postulated that I might believe that televisions are gateways to other universes, therein lies an important point. I do not believe televisions are gateways to other universes. I believe that our soul is. Many of these universes are short lived and contained within the soul of the creator, but that doesn't make them any less real than our own universe. What's the difference between your imagination and God's imagination besides showing some dedication to your creations?

FlyersFan

GodIsRelative
Argument number two: If there is no Supreme Being, why do so many believe in one?

Your argument that things cant come from nothing would make a good discussion and I agree with it. However, this 'argument' does not make a good point. "If there is no supreme being, why do so many believe in one?' What people believe is irrelevant in regards to truth. Lots of people around the world believe in things that are false. Example - Muslims, Jews and many Christians believe in Noahs Ark, and yet we know for a fact that it didn't happen. Truth is truth ... what large numbers of people believe or disbelieve doesnt' change truth.

I couldn't agree more. You also provide a perfect example of why. You say you know for a fact that Noah's ark didn't happen. Well, seeing as this story came directly from God, I see no reason to doubt the authenticity of the story. I only humbly wonder if perhaps Noah isn't human, from Earth, or maybe just not from this version of earth. You seem to have a lot of faith in the story being false, but your beliefs do not necessarily change truth. It's possible the truth is just so obscured as to look like falsehood.

openyourmind1262
There's is simply zero imperical evidence that God exist's. Nor is than any imperical evidence that he does not exist. Millinium old arguement. But, as time pass's us all by, the evidence that there is no god is gaining plenty of ground. You can beleive in any thing you want. I choose to live in reality and reality & logic say's God is imaginary being created by man, for man, to controll man. Question: If God does exist, why does he let "innocence suffer in such horrilble ways" IE: child murder, war, famine, disease, molestations etc, etc , etc.

Any god that could stop all that and choose's not to, is no god I would want to worship nor beleive in. Sort of hyocritical of god after all the bible say's about him/her and the love he/she has for his/her creations. Actually it's cruel & sadistic. I don't want to hear it's all part of his/her plan. If in fact there is a god, and he/she has a plan for each of us, then is god not responsable for every death that has ever accured on earth? If so god is responsable for every abortion that has ever taken place since the dawn of time. He's also the reason we had Stalin, Hitler, Saddam, Assad, etc.etc.etc.

edit on 23-1-2014 by openyourmind1262 because: (no reason given)

So I guess if I don't show up for work tomorrow, it's God's fault? It's not me for being lazy and watching Supernatural all day?

Sarcasm aside, death and pain is part of our experience for one simple reason. God said "Don't eat" and we ate. Our Father loved us soo much that He was willing to put all of this behind us. He said "You don't want to eat that, or you will die!" Well, He was right. So many here do not want to see pain and death. He gave us the choice to know or to not know. You may not remember, or believe what I say is true, and to that, I have no response. The stories we've been told about God, that's what they are. Stories. They're stories that help us to understand who God is and what He has done for us. Unfortunately, mankind seems to think it's all about What God Is and what He has done TO us.

reply to post by GodIsRelative

As for what does matter, yes, Spiderman, leprechauns and fairies are all real. They may not be physical creatures in our universe, but that doesn't mean they do not exist. If they don't exist, how are we talking about them?

So essentially fiction is real because we created fiction and so fiction exists in our reality.

It being fiction means its existence is dependent, not independent, of conscious creatures. Therefore it's not an objective truth which obviously is in conflict with the religious predicates normally prescribed to God i.e omnipotence/omnipresence.

If that's not what you're saying please elaborate by what you mean when you say Spiderman exists. Some kind of parallel Universe + infinity and everything imaginable is tangible somewhere?….

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Ooh, so close. You had me right up until the end.

All things are possible through God. It's part of the omnipotence.
"There is nothing new under the sun."
It's right in scripture. We imagine these things, but we didn't create them. They have always existed within God.

Edit: You could say that I believe humans are conduits for the unlimited potential of God. Everything you believe is true because God makes it so. And if you want to know why we live in an era and have an interest in the discussion on why what you believe matters, it is because all roads eventually lead to the same place. The road literally goes on forever. You can die, but you'll only start over, because God has made it so. Because everything is true, and nothing is not. If you need proof, look around. Do you see nothing? No, if you look around, YOU WILL SEE EVERYTHING.

reply to post by GodIsRelative


You did nothing to refute any part of what Lunacy posted. You just restated your argument as though it were flawless logic. As Lunacy demonstrated, it isn't.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to explain these things.

For one thing, you've been taking my words literally, when clearly 85% of them are metaphor. I like that you accuse my logic of being faulty. Logic is for bitches. God exists because God exists. This is the closest thing to objective truth in the universe. Belief and disbelief has nothing to do with it. It simply means that I understand that these things were not generated randomly out of some biological chemical accident, but that they were simply accessed from the store of limitless potential that is God. God, I believe, is accessed through humanity's consciousness. Not created by it. Man exists because God exists, not the other way around, and if you would stop trying to be right about everything for one second to just take a look at the evidence in Your Own Life, you would See that.

Do not be as the ones who are not deaf, but hear without understanding.

reply to post by GodIsRelative

I like that you accuse my logic of being faulty. Logic is for bitches. God exists because God exists.

And now the caliber of your case becomes clear.

reply to post by DISRAELI

It's true for you if you believe in it", which is a piece of modern absurdity

Absurd?

Now would you not say that your following post maybe construed as just as absurd.
I wont go into biblical errancies, just the simple statement that god is a "he" in your eyes is sufficient....

But a better argument for the Biblical God is a fifth one; he exists because he said so