God exists as an omniscient and omnipotent conscious being.

Jarring

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity
So...anything else to be discussed here?

idk, i can't simply pull God out of my pocket to show you, but I can give you advice in vain

What about all that stuff I just mentioned about TESTING...?

it would definitely be in vain

And what part of "testing in vain" doesn't tip you off about this...?

about what? i try not to subject myself to the torment of the matter too much. it seems like everything i know is in vain. or rather knowledge in general is proceeded by vanity.

Knowledge in general is preceded by vanity when you don't bleeping test it...! Seriously, what is so difficult to grasp about what I'm saying here?

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity
So...anything else to be discussed here?

idk, i can't simply pull God out of my pocket to show you, but I can give you advice in vain

What about all that stuff I just mentioned about TESTING...?

it would definitely be in vain

And what part of "testing in vain" doesn't tip you off about this...?

about what? i try not to subject myself to the torment of the matter too much. it seems like everything i know is in vain. or rather knowledge in general is proceeded by vanity.

Knowledge in general is preceded by vanity when you don't bleeping test it...! Seriously, what is so difficult to grasp about what I'm saying here?

edit on 26-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

so sure of yourself! haha, i won't argue it. All I can convey is that I just feel differently on the matter in that it will ultimately be in vain regardless of tested results. Like, a perfect lie?

Jarring

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity
So...anything else to be discussed here?

idk, i can't simply pull God out of my pocket to show you, but I can give you advice in vain

What about all that stuff I just mentioned about TESTING...?

it would definitely be in vain

And what part of "testing in vain" doesn't tip you off about this...?

about what? i try not to subject myself to the torment of the matter too much. it seems like everything i know is in vain. or rather knowledge in general is proceeded by vanity.

Knowledge in general is preceded by vanity when you don't bleeping test it...! Seriously, what is so difficult to grasp about what I'm saying here?

edit on 26-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

so sure of yourself! haha, i won't argue it. All I can convey is that I just feel differently on the matter in that it will ultimately be in vain regardless of tested results. Like, a perfect lie?

The only "vain" thing about test results is the person interpreting them! Are you so afraid of what you might find out? See, here we have a perfectly logical, rational, reasonable approach to verifying the nature of a supposed entity and you still refuse to look it in the face. What's the problem?

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity
So...anything else to be discussed here?

idk, i can't simply pull God out of my pocket to show you, but I can give you advice in vain

What about all that stuff I just mentioned about TESTING...?

it would definitely be in vain

And what part of "testing in vain" doesn't tip you off about this...?

about what? i try not to subject myself to the torment of the matter too much. it seems like everything i know is in vain. or rather knowledge in general is proceeded by vanity.

Knowledge in general is preceded by vanity when you don't bleeping test it...! Seriously, what is so difficult to grasp about what I'm saying here?

edit on 26-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

so sure of yourself! haha, i won't argue it. All I can convey is that I just feel differently on the matter in that it will ultimately be in vain regardless of tested results. Like, a perfect lie?

The only "vain" thing about test results is the person interpreting them! Are you so afraid of what you might find out?

no, fear is just one other emotion that drives vanity. I don't fear testing anything or necessarily keep myself from doing so, I simply know the sin that drives it. I also know better than to try and test "God" as if it's going to do me any good. I don't think anything will come of it, and if it does, it probably won't be good. God is infallible, and to try and fathom that is beyond insane.

reply to post by Jarring

no, fear is just one other emotion that drives vanity. I don't fear testing anything or necessarily keep myself from doing so, I simply know the sin that drives it. I also know better than to try and test "God" as if it's going to do me any good. I don't think anything will come of it, and if it does, it probably won't be good. God is infallible, and to try and fathom that is beyond insane.

But you can't know what you don't test. That's why we have exams in school.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

no, fear is just one other emotion that drives vanity. I don't fear testing anything or necessarily keep myself from doing so, I simply know the sin that drives it. I also know better than to try and test "God" as if it's going to do me any good. I don't think anything will come of it, and if it does, it probably won't be good. God is infallible, and to try and fathom that is beyond insane.

But you can't know what you don't test. That's why we have exams in school.

not necessarily true, but it's not relevant to the subject.

Jarring

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

no, fear is just one other emotion that drives vanity. I don't fear testing anything or necessarily keep myself from doing so, I simply know the sin that drives it. I also know better than to try and test "God" as if it's going to do me any good. I don't think anything will come of it, and if it does, it probably won't be good. God is infallible, and to try and fathom that is beyond insane.

But you can't know what you don't test. That's why we have exams in school.

not necessarily true, but it's not relevant to the subject.

It is relevant to the subject, actually. I just explained how the claims made in the title and OP might be proven or disproven. I now invite you to use the ways I've outlined a scientific approach to bring closure to the poo-storm that so often descends upon these threads. It might make a more constructive finish.

So, nothing begets nothing...as this is proven in nature. And from all we have seen, in nature, it takes something to beget something.

But, a belief in God,with no proof, is accepted as truth and fact.

What I am trying to say is, while there is no proof in God, you have faith in him. In your mind, nothing has begotten something. This in and of itself violates the very first argument the entire thread was based on.

Now, I know, folks are going to say you simply have to have faith.

But, I just don't see how anyone can honestly follow this pattern of thinking.

To me, it comes across as being highly irrational. But, it's a "sacred cow" of a thought. And because enough people believe, the psychiatrists and psychologists do not label it as a mental state of paranoid delusion.

I am from "The Show Me State" of Missouri. I was taught to question, to prove, and to understand, before accepting something that others express as a belief or fact.

The idea of an Omnipotent and or Omnipresent *ANYTHING* is an abhorrent thought to me. It is as un-accessible in my mind as the thought that I myself could possibly be a God.

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

no, fear is just one other emotion that drives vanity. I don't fear testing anything or necessarily keep myself from doing so, I simply know the sin that drives it. I also know better than to try and test "God" as if it's going to do me any good. I don't think anything will come of it, and if it does, it probably won't be good. God is infallible, and to try and fathom that is beyond insane.

But you can't know what you don't test. That's why we have exams in school.

not necessarily true, but it's not relevant to the subject.

It is relevant to the subject, actually. I just explained how the claims made in the title and OP might be proven or disproven. I now invite you to use the ways I've outlined a scientific approach to bring closure to the poo-storm that so often descends upon these threads. It might make a more constructive finish.

you must have mistaken my intentions, the reason it isn't true is irrelevant to the subject. that knowledge isn't always necessarily gained by test. You can imagine that correct? Like, I don't have to explain? I feel like you should be intelligent enough to understand.
Nonetheless, I don't feel like arguing the matter any more. Sorry. I tire of the subject.

reply to post by Jarring

you must have mistaken my intentions, the reason it isn't true is irrelevant to the subject. that knowledge isn't always necessarily gained by test. You can imagine that correct? Like, I don't have to explain? I feel like you should be intelligent enough to understand.
Nonetheless, I don't feel like arguing the matter any more. Sorry. I tire of the subject.

True, knowledge isn't always gained by testing. But knowledge is better gained by testing. By a conscientious process of trial and error. You test God, God reacts. You learn what God likes and what God doesn't like. You ask him for this, and you ask him for that. You see what he gives you and reflect on what this reveals. You explore God's character by interacting with him. But if he's not doing squat, then what are you learning about him? That's why you test him.

You are refusing to test him because you're afraid of what you will learn. Which surprises me, given that you already know so much about him (supposedly). Surely your tests would only reveal more of the same? But you know how we find out? By testing it. Because science demands it!

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

you must have mistaken my intentions, the reason it isn't true is irrelevant to the subject. that knowledge isn't always necessarily gained by test. You can imagine that correct? Like, I don't have to explain? I feel like you should be intelligent enough to understand.
Nonetheless, I don't feel like arguing the matter any more. Sorry. I tire of the subject.

True, knowledge isn't always gained by testing. But knowledge is better gained by testing. By a conscientious process of trial and error. You test God, God reacts. You learn what God likes and what God doesn't like. You ask him for this, and you ask him for that. You see what he gives you and reflect on what this reveals. You explore God's character by interacting with him. But if he's not doing squat, then what are you learning about him? That's why you test him.

You are refusing to test him because you're afraid of what you will learn. Which surprises me, given that you already know so much about him (supposedly). Surely your tests would only reveal more of the same? But you know how we find out? By testing it. Because science demands it!

edit on 26-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

i do not direct my lusty pursuit of knowledge towards God. Instead, I'd prefer to release myself from the bondage of sin. My fear of God is unique in my experience of condensation of reality due to this very same release.

like, i fear what may happen when i release myself from sin, yet i still will to do it. I face my fears.

reply to post by Jarring

i do not direct my lusty pursuit of knowledge towards God. Instead, I'd prefer to release myself from the bondage of sin. My fear of God is unique in my experience of condensation of reality due to this very same release.

Well, sure. Instead of learning to operate the car, let's lament the fact that we find a car useful in the first place. Makes perfect sense. Although I think if you actually tested God, you might find there's not much to be afraid of. Just saying.

like, i fear what may happen when i release myself from sin, yet i still will to do it. I face my fears.

Sure, if you say so.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

i do not direct my lusty pursuit of knowledge towards God. Instead, I'd prefer to release myself from the bondage of sin. My fear of God is unique in my experience of condensation of reality due to this very same release.

Well, sure. Instead of learning to operate the car, let's lament the fact that we find a car useful in the first place. Makes perfect sense. Although I think if you actually tested God, you might find there's not much to be afraid of. Just saying.

like, i fear what may happen when i release myself from sin, yet i still will to do it. I face my fears.

Sure, if you say so.

edit on 26-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I'm not sure if you understood and are mocking me anyways, or what. it seems if you understood, that you wouldn't feel justified in mockery. Forgive me if I cannot understand your rhetoric, but I am no fool. Don't take me for one to ignore chances or possibilities.

reply to post by Jarring

I'm not sure if you understood and are mocking me anyways, or what. it seems if you understood, that you wouldn't feel justified in mockery. Forgive me if I cannot understand your rhetoric, but I am no fool. Don't take me for one to ignore chances or possibilities.

You say you face your fears, but you're not willing to question or test God. The one thing that might bring you actual answers is the one thing you won't do. Sounds like someone is afraid of the red pill.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

I'm not sure if you understood and are mocking me anyways, or what. it seems if you understood, that you wouldn't feel justified in mockery. Forgive me if I cannot understand your rhetoric, but I am no fool. Don't take me for one to ignore chances or possibilities.

You say you face your fears, but you're not willing to question God. Sounds like someone who is afraid of the red pill.

questioning God is easy. accepting Him is the hard part.

I feel like you are beginning to fight me personally, or have been for awhile now. It may or may not be true, just be careful. Don't want admins to get involved again.

reply to post by Jarring

questioning God is easy. accepting Him is the hard part.

Questioning gravity is easy too, but you don't see priests skydiving without parachutes. Why? Because gravity has proven itself far more consistent than God's tendency to save his precious children. There's one test result for you. Really gives it away, doesn't it? That's probably why accepting him is the hard part. Because gravity works 99% better than he does. You jump off of a tall building, you can guarantee that if something doesn't interfere with your fall, you're going to hit the ground really hard. You ask God to give you some money or a pregnancy or good health or maybe a better score on your next exam or less hassle from that annoying guy who works in the office next to yours, it's 50/50, right? But that gives me an idea. Let's come up with another test, shall we?

Write down a list of prayers. Fifty or so should do it. Pray to your beloved god for two weeks, and count how many of those prayers were filled. Then put a fresh jug of milk on the counter and worship it regularly. Pray to the milk. Ask it for the same stuff you asked your god for. Then compare the lists and see how the milk did in contrast to your god. Not a difficult test, really. How about it?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

questioning God is easy. accepting Him is the hard part.

Questioning gravity is easy too, but you don't see priests skydiving without parachutes. Why? Because gravity has proven itself far more consistent than God's tendency to save his precious children. There's one test result for you. Really gives it away, doesn't it? That's probably why accepting him is the hard part. Because gravity works 99% better than he does.

Let's come up with another test, shall we? Write down a list of prayers. Fifty or so should do it. Pray to your beloved god for two weeks, and count how many of those prayers were filled. Then put a fresh jug of milk on the counter and worship it regularly. Pray to the milk. Ask it for the same stuff you asked your god for. Then compare the lists and see how the milk did in contrast to your god. Now a difficult test, really. But I suppose even that is too much for you.

lol, i admire your reasoning. however, my circumstance has a special point of view so to speak. please, just let it end here, i really don't feel like explaining myself today. maybe another time. I want to end this on a good note. I leave you with a song, much love, and appreciated your patient wit.
happy hunting
peace

reply to post by Jarring


Your decision to walk away and just forget everything I've written to you is your decision. I can't stop you. I'm just showing you how your basis in reasoning is flawed and how you might improve on your understanding and perhaps even find yourself in a better psychological position to appreciate the world.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

Your decision to walk away and just forget everything I've written to you is your decision. I can't stop you. I'm just showing you how your basis in reasoning is flawed and how you might improve on your understanding and perhaps even find yourself in a better psychological position to appreciate the world.

forget? like i said before, I am no fool. And it is not my reasoning that is flawed. Just because you fail to understand me, does not prove I am wrong. YOU WOULD DO WELL NOT TO ATTACK ME.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


There's a reason my account name is God is Relative. Pray to God or pray to milk. It's the same God who answers either way. God is not dependent on you. God loves you and that is why He gave you life.

If you really want to test Him, listen to me. I am His faithful servant and you can trust that my words are true. In the manner that Christ commanded, another will verify that what I say is true. Here is what God wants you to do, and you will know why we do not test Him. Go back through this thread and read every single post you made as if it were the Almighty speaking directly to you.