China Plans To Seize South China Sea Island From Philippines, Says "Battle Will Be Restricted"

reply to post by Bassago


Among other things ... the value of an armed populace. I'll bet the cartels would take their pound of flesh, too, and they're more appropriately armed for it.

EA006

OccamsRazor04

EA006

Please show me what China has that would allow it to either A) bomb the US mainland via aircraft or B) land troops in the US mainland. I will wait for it.

All warfare is based on deception. China has friends with this capacity, even if and i doubt this, they can't get them there themselves.

So basically you have zero evidence China can do this, but will still say they can because it makes you feel good to believe it. Sweet. I will stick with facts, and will wait for you to show me how China can do this .. as it is 100% impossible for them to have friends that can do it, as there is NO NATION ON EARTH that can successfully invade the US mainland. You clearly have no idea about worldwide naval forces.

Your not thinking this through either. I don't favor the Chinese in any way. "we've got better sh*t than them so they can't do it"
Germany had superior armaments that's why you nicked them after the war. You just built stuff faster than them. Superior numbers.....

The US had more force projection power than Germany. Imagine if Germany had a naval force 20x larger than the US had and completely blockaded the US. How does that WWII look now?

There is an issue you bring up that actually does matter, and that is Germany lost because when their weapons broke down they could not supply them with parts.

It used to be that parts could be made locally for US weapons, now they are all specialized and many have to be flown there if they break. It won't cost the US the war .. but could lead to move expenses and more casualties.

TDawgRex
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

I think that I do understand China. Maybe to well. They are more nationalistic than your average American. They also, on the average, think that they are better than everyone else.

This is exactly why they would not use nuclear weapons. To do so would be the end of the Chinese forever. They would never sacrifice themselves to bring down America, that would be like the US willing to go toe to toe with NK in a nuclear attack thinking the destruction of NK is worth the complete end of the US forever. The Chinese instead would think they are better and it's a matter of time to rise again.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


I know this. That's why i pointed it out.

It intrigues me how America thinks it's untouchable. If they go to war with China they'd have to completely annihilate them.
If not a resurgent China would be out to do the same. China has been preparing for war with the U.S for a few years now.
They will use EVERYTHING they have to defeat them. I'm not supporting China here, i just wish Americans would see that it'll be a close run thing. Very very close.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Argyll

 

You do know that China's "great" economy is pretty much dependent on our economy right? In fact, I'd say that THEY are more dependent economically on us then we are on them. China really doesn't have as much debt of ours as the alternative news sites like to yell about.

The whole situation is screwed anyways. Just like Japan, if China does something, we have to back the country attacked. In this case, the Philippines. If we don't, we will lose major face in the world and could suffer diplomatically all over the world, with most of the damage occurring in the far east. If we do, then we are probably looking at the start of a major war that could easily escalate into the dreaded WWIII.

Keep in mind, once China's economy falters (they won't be able to ship all the cheaply made goods back to America if we are at war with them), and it will if they attack the Philippines, they will have to commit to the war machine and conquering resources to stay prosperous. Shortly expect wars into Japan (might as well get those islands back while they are reclaiming things). Once Japan is involved, if we've sat out until now, we'd pretty much have to get involved to continue to have any reputation on the world scene.

Most posters on ATS don't have the first clue how the economy works (and no, it isn't like a bank account) and don't know enough to know that the largest holder of US debt is....the US.


Not to mention that China's economy IS on a brink, unlike the US. Their dollar is artificially inflated. Local governments are in tremendous debt. Their economy has been slowing the past five years, and they are barely able to maintain their GDP growth rate.

It is China's economic collapse that may be next, and the repercussions will be felt around the world.

It's hilarious you think a small force in Mexico will conquer mainland US. Hilarious.

I missed this typing. I didn't say a small group of Chinese would conquer mainland U.S.A. I suggested they may have brought something with them.

EA006
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

I know this. That's why i pointed it out.

It intrigues me how America thinks it's untouchable. If they go to war with China they'd have to completely annihilate them.
If not a resurgent China would be out to do the same. China has been preparing for war with the U.S for a few years now.
They will use EVERYTHING they have to defeat them. I'm not supporting China here, i just wish Americans would see that it'll be a close run thing. Very very close.

But see that is where your thinking is flawed. While China has most undoubtedly been preparing to fight a war with America, America on the other hand has been preparing to fight another WORLD WAR not only for the last few years but pretty much since the end of WWII. We've got them beat in the development part. Once China runs out of tech (and believe me that won't be that long), we will slowly but surly grind them into either surrender or until they are no longer a country. I don't know where you get this idea that because China has been preparing for a little while, suddenly they can go toe to toe with a military whose full power has yet to be seen in this world. America neutralized China's numbers threat a LONG time ago.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


thats assuming it remains a conventional war.
whats stopping china from nuking Norfolk, your fleets, Guam, your bases in Japan etc..

you know WW2 could have gone very differently if the Japanese had of hit fuel reserves at Pearl Harbour.

your strong and powerful, but this arrogance is also your greatest weakness.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Exactly, I'm glad you picked up on this as well. Western media has overhyped China's economy. It only takes a cursory look behind the scenes to see that this is the case. From the ghost cities, to the not as large debt with the US, China isn't nearly as big a threat as the media makes them out to be and may end up defeating themselves in the end. Of course this could also be a bad thing if the leadership there realizes this facts and comes to the conclusion that war is the only solution to stay on top.

EA006
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

I know this. That's why i pointed it out.

It intrigues me how America thinks it's untouchable. If they go to war with China they'd have to completely annihilate them.
If not a resurgent China would be out to do the same. China has been preparing for war with the U.S for a few years now.
They will use EVERYTHING they have to defeat them. I'm not supporting China here, i just wish Americans would see that it'll be a close run thing. Very very close.

In 15 years you may be right. Right now China would be annihilated. They simply lack the technology and capabilities to do so.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


If you were following along with the conversation, you'd know that we've been discussing conventional war this entire time, and that I never ruled out nuclear use. It was OccamsRazor who said it wouldn't happen. I just assumed that talking nuclear use was worthless since once it happened, MAD would be implemented. Pretty boring conversation.

EA006

It's hilarious you think a small force in Mexico will conquer mainland US. Hilarious.

I missed this typing. I didn't say a small group of Chinese would conquer mainland U.S.A. I suggested they may have brought something with them.

What could they possibly have? What exists that would even matter? Why would mexico allow it on their soil?

Agit8dChop
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

thats assuming it remains a conventional war.
whats stopping china from nuking Norfolk, your fleets, Guam, your bases in Japan etc..

you know WW2 could have gone very differently if the Japanese had of hit fuel reserves at Pearl Harbour.

your strong and powerful, but this arrogance is also your greatest weakness.

edit on 12-1-2014 by Agit8dChop because: (no reason given)

Because they launch a single nuke and we detect it and we immediately retaliate by nuking them? How does China win by having every major city they own become uninhabitable glass?

your strong and powerful, but this arrogance is also your greatest weakness.

Glad someone else sees this.

It is all military strategy. The South China sea is rumored to have an oil field as large as Arabia, along with natural gas.

Then there is this:

Possessing a credible sea-based nuclear deterrent is a priority for China's military strategy. China’s single Type 092, or Xia-class, nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, equipped with short-range JL-1 submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs), has never conducted a deterrent patrol from the Bohai Sea since its introduction in the 1980s. However, China is on the verge of acquiring credible second-strike capabilities with the anticipated introduction of JL-2 SLBMs (with an estimated range of 8,000 kilometres) coupled with DF-31 and DF-31A road-mobile intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs). In addition, China plans to introduce up to five Type 094, or Jin-class, SSBNs outfitted with the JL-2 missiles, while constructing an underwater submarine base on Hainan Island in the South China Sea.

linky

EA006

your strong and powerful, but this arrogance is also your greatest weakness.

Glad someone else sees this.

So when the 30 year old fully grown man looks at the 5 year old and says you have no chance to win a fight with me, but in 15 years you might .. that's arrogance and not simple logic?

reply to post by Agit8dChop


This has been discussed. The threat of MAD. The only way China would do it is if they felt they could do so without any threat of return fire.

EA006

your strong and powerful, but this arrogance is also your greatest weakness.

Glad someone else sees this.

Arrogance? You (and the guy you are quoting) are mistaking my position on this as some form of boasting. I am by no means boasting. I am first and foremost speaking from experience. I am a veteran of the US Army and served in a war zone and secondly I am looking at the simple numbers. I am just calling it how the cards are laid out. We outpace the world in military spending. We may lie about how great we are in other departments, but this is a solid fact. We are number 1 there by a LARGE margin. It is our pride and joy and we want nothing more than to unleash its full power at the bequest of the American public. And that is JUST the US. You guys seem to be discounting all the allies that would inevitably either freely offer their support to us or get dragged in when we tell them to.

That isn't to say that China has no chance, but many many things would have to go right for them to even have a chance of going toe to toe with us.

And one last thing, I will stress AGAIN that I do not want a war. I am just looking at the evidence and facts and saying what the most (highly) likely scenario is. I don't know where you seem to think that China has this mysterious answer to our tremendous military might, but it better be a huge Ace up their sleeve and they better use it quickly if they want any hope of even standing a chance of slowing us down.

OccamsRazor04

EA006

It's hilarious you think a small force in Mexico will conquer mainland US. Hilarious.

I missed this typing. I didn't say a small group of Chinese would conquer mainland U.S.A. I suggested they may have brought something with them.

What could they possibly have? What exists that would even matter? Why would mexico allow it on their soil?

Would the Mexicans know about it?. As for what could they possibly have. Use your head. Why would it matter? Look at the espionage perpetrated by the Chinese already in the last few years. Several hundred billion dollars worth. If China knows it won't win hands down, it'll go dirty.

From the article:

The Chinese navy has drawn a detailed combat plan to seize the island and the battle will be restricted within the South China Sea.

I'd say China has already determined any type of full scale war is a no win situation. Hence they would strike the island and take it as fast as possible and dig in. They will do everything possible to hold it probably surround it with their navy and fight like hell to maintain position.

If they can do that then the Philippines and US would have to take the attack back to the island where the Chinese can scream they're being invaded to the UN (their island so they say.) Possession is nine tenths and all.