America's arrogance astounds me; despite our freeze, record heat persists worldwide!

reply to post by Rezlooper

Heatwave in Australia causes bats to fall dead from the sky

One heatwave does not mean we've had a hotter than usual summer here in Australia. In fact I would strongly argue that our last two summers were much hotter than this one, at least in the area where I live. There's only been one day of summer so far where I've actually had to sit in front of a fan to cool down. Last summer and the summer before that there were many days like that, but this summer has been quite tame and tolerable.

However I do not deny that Humans are destroying the Earth in many other ways, such as oil leaks, toxic waste dumps, nuclear disasters, hardcore deforestation, etc. We get so caught up in the global warming debate that we forget about the real problems which need urgent attention. And then we say "nothing to worry about, global warming was a lie". Global warming is just a diversion tactic which takes our attention away from the real problems.

reply to post by Rezlooper


I know right? The arrogance people!

Alaska is warm, North America cold??

Alaska is a part of North America.

Please paraphrase your comment to the sound of some intelligence.

The weather in Alaska is not that bad, its pretty much the same every winter the last 30 Years I've lived here.

Quit being a Chicken Little

reply to post by Rezlooper

Asia - warm

You weren't talking about China were you?
Northern China has been colder than normal.
If you'll check the tourist and weather info, you'll notice China is about normal, and little cooler in Beijing.
I replied to another thread, that we could not go to our favorite ski resort north of Harbin, China this year.
I was snowed over. But, I also stated my husband has a friend retired in Australia and they have some Great skiing at a resort he's going to. We're thinking of going to Australia and ski with him.
ETA: this is our resort in China we normally stay at.

This picture is the winter of 2011 I think it was.
I'm told by a friend of mine, this winter you can't see the cottages.

As more energy gets trapped in the earths atmosphere and seas due to something you can learn about in science class (or your local farmer's greenhouse), more extreme weather will occur. much hotter summers, tons of rain, floods, extreme (albeit perhaps short) winters with new stuff like "polar vortex" things happening and all sorts.
Climate change / destabilization has predicted this.

Basic science.

The deniers have never, ever made a coherent argument. I quite like the whole "but Jupiter is heating up also!" argument. They don't even believe what is going on here on earth via science, yet they are totally on board the study of a gas giant...and at the same time, completely ignore the scientific discussion about why they =hypothise that it will be heating up= (hint: has to do with storms and mixing of atmospheric..just go read a dang book already!).

Its hard to not be arrogant when a grown adult refuses to learn a subject, then demands he knows it more. its like watching a adult demand gravity only works if you look down to see there is no ground beneath you because you believe cartoons more than physics...and would be quite a laugh, if only we weren't tethered to the fools trying to walk off a cliffs edge.

btw:

Claims that solar system bodies are heating up due to increased solar activity are clearly wrong. The sun’s output has declined in recent decades. Only Pluto and Neptune are exhibiting increased brightness. Heating attributed to other solar bodies remains unproven.

Source

So, if the sun isn't microwaving the solar system, and we are definitely seeing a increase of energy in earth, rapid heating causing mass precipitation and rapid climate destabilization (symptoms being extreme weather conditions)...what has changed? what has happened to make a multi-thousand year cycle rapidly gain in a matter of decades? hmmm....hmmmmmmm

Quick, someone contact a anti-science nutjob to remember how to deny using falty logic, bad science, opinions, and maybe say that their fridge is still cold, therefore no such thing as global warming.

btw, it rained here today...therefore there is no such thing as deserts.

Arctic sea ice melt is what I think of when hearing of climate change, which makes me think of species extinction. If we watch wildlife we can guage it. Are African waterholes drying up sooner, being replenished later? Are bears hibernating differently? Polar bears and penguins doing ok? Birds migrating at regular times, etc..

Things are being redistributed but to where I don't have a clue. Into the oceans or into the atmosphere to be dumped in the new future location of Antarctica. Gradual but sure. The hardest part of it all will be the stress on various species. If it happens too fast most may not make it at all.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Neither has anyone else made a coherent argument. Is the whole point of this to convince people it is happening? And if it is happening, why would some guy like Al Gore need to be a front man?

If global warming is true, then why haven't governments made "coherent" solutions to stop pollution from big industries? All that has happened so far is a bunch of BS and lies and blame with the goal of creating some huge tax scheme because it is all the civilians of the world causing it and we should pay. That sure is not coherent, it is definitely a scam and an agenda.

Even if global warming is happening, what governments are doing about it is the true problem here, not climate change deniers. What I see and I am sure many others see is just a big flim flam of certain globalists and elite corporatists trying very very hard to convince everyone that all of the civilians should pay to fix it, (which would be laughably impossible.) Just like saying if everyone will agree to this new tax, we can make Jupiter a nice place to move to for everyone.

I haven't seen any governments ban petroleum yet, or ban industries from polluting, and that is never going to happen, so neither will any real solution for your climate gate, oops, I meant climate change.

Aren't you still driving a car? It puts out quite a bit of carbon you know. That is greenhouse contributing and isn't helping fight global warming.

Shanghai China's air is so bad that people are wearing full face respirators with organic and other type cartridges. But the big question is: IS the government there banning driving vehicles that burn petro? NOPE, and that is one of the biggest contributors to adding carbon to the air, not to mention coal run industries and other things making the Air in China so deadly. China's Beijing is even much worse..

Instead of doing what would help fight an allegedly real problem, all that is happening are all the worlds salesmen are trying to tell people that they need to throw huge sums of money at it, and that they should pay for it all. Unfortunately, people will keep driving and polluting and it would just get worse. So it doesn't even matter if it is real or not, does it?

reply to post by guohua


Yup I have a friend over in East China, he's been snowed in all winter, the snow scenery is amazing !!!

China's Coldest Winter in Decades
www.wunderground.com...

China Meteorological Administration on Friday said the national average was 25 degrees Fahrenheit since late November, the coldest in nearly three decades.

The average temperature in northeast China dipped to -4.5 degrees F, the coldest in 43 years, and dropped to a 42-year low of -18.7 degrees F in northern China.

In some areas — northeastern China, eastern Inner Mongolia, and north part of far-western Xinjiang province — the low has hit -40 degrees F, the administration said.

I'm not going to show my friends pics from China, the above link doesn't even compare to the winter pictures that I have from China this year...

reply to post by Rezlooper


North America and Europe consume disproportionate share of total energy produced in the world.

It is not unexpected that this will lead to localized climate changes.

Greed is a very strong force and it conquers a lot of things. Will extreme weather change political thinking? Doubtful.

The correct way is to live simply. Have small houses and few belongings. And says thanks to God everyday for what He has given.

Humans have taken away the right to live of so many other species by encroaching on the realms not belonging to humans.

alienreality
reply to post by SaturnFX
Is the whole point of this to convince people it is happening?

No, convincing the average minded person is not paramount. What is important here is having leaders taking action due to facts and perhaps a bit of good shepherding for their masses, and then simply explaining why they are forcing the kids to eat vegetables instead of a strict candy diet per say. the kids (average mind of the world) don't really understand such big concepts like future, health, survivability, but clever people who know how to read and understand science do.

And if it is happening, why would some guy like Al Gore need to be a front man?

Same reason Ted Nugent is the front man for gun owners?
Who said Al is the front man? He wrote a popular book. Science doesn't need a front man to exist, it exists, some people capitalize on it. Not sure where your going here.

If global warming is true, then why haven't governments made "coherent" solutions to stop pollution from big industries?

Yes, Why hasn't the governments made a coherent solution. they could all meet in some place, say something neutral and Asian, like Kyoto..then maybe have some sort of consensus protocol...
Oh, right, we already did it, until some leaders decided that corporate hand greasing was far more beneficial for them than keeping up the obligations promised.

All that has happened so far is a bunch of BS and lies and blame with the goal of creating some huge tax scheme because it is all the civilians of the world causing it and we should pay. That sure is not coherent, it is definitely a scam and an agenda.

Similar arguments were made about Kyoto and was dubya's reason for leaving it. Any solution provided will inconvenience us, therefore, just call every solution a scam and not worry about it. Its not like any of us have kids and grandkids to worry about anyhow, so to hell with it all, right?

Even if global warming is happening,

Lets stop this right here.
even if is not applicable here. it is verified peer reviewed private and public global consensus of scientists. 97% of all studies have concluded, confirmed, and demonstrated this. it is a theory in its scientific sense, not in your stoner friends "theory" context. It is happening, this is not open for debate. What is (for some reason) still being debated is to what extent man is responsible for. Most data shows a significant amount. There is less and less wiggle room as more studies are put in.

what governments are doing about it is the true problem here, not climate change deniers. What I see and I am sure many others see is just a big flim flam of certain globalists and elite corporatists trying very very hard to convince everyone that all of the civilians should pay to fix it, (which would be laughably impossible.) Just like saying if everyone will agree to this new tax, we can make Jupiter a nice place to move to for everyone.

Governments are run by the people. ultimately it will be the people who will pay for this one way or another, be it in prevention, or emergency expenses.
Consider how much "superstorms" attributed to destabilization costs just the US in repairs already, imagine if that money was instead spent on mega power projects, solar farms in our deserts, dams, wind farms, etc. We will be reactionary however, and it will cost us soo much more, because the average joe can't understand spending a dime for prevention...however, we will spend a dollar for rescue.
This is where government comes in...we need to stop catering to the average joe and his inability to have foresight, take the money, and put down some prevention. They may gripe and moan for awhile (they are already..ATS being home amd mecca to them all, yourself included), but at the end of the day, we got the kid away from the edge and hopefully they will grow up and learn what almost happened.
But it won't happen. politicians in developing countries and the right wing in the USA are focused not on the welfare of our world, but of the personal enhancement of their own lives...and so they will rally the joes and demand no prevention because of nonsense talk.

I haven't seen any governments ban petroleum yet, or ban industries from polluting, and that is never going to happen, so neither will any real solution for your climate gate, oops, I meant climate change.

I am trying to understand your angle here. So, you see then there is a problem, but because government is corrupt and cater to the richest and dumbest, you find it all laughable and part of some what...defense against government doing something?

Aren't you still driving a car? It puts out quite a bit of carbon you know. That is greenhouse contributing and isn't helping fight global warming.

Yep, I drive a car
and I find I drive it less as gas prices go up. I also have been working on alternative energy methods for the home to take down the electric bill (windmills). I like paying more for stuff about as much as the next guy. I do however understand it does work to accomplish a goal. ciggies went up, I am now in the process of quitting. etc.
Personally I don't want to help the poor either, hense why I am all for some of my taxes helping them...because its more disturbing to see them in the streets.
This is where you and I probably disagree at the core. I personally see government as a potential solution to really big problems, you see nothing as a solution I guess. your choice, my world is a bit more hopeful though.

So it doesn't even matter if it is real or not, does it?

It is real, it does matter. and I am of the opinion we won't tax our way out of this, but we may invent our way out of it. If the carbon tax credit went directly towards a global open source project for creating cheap highly advanced solar / biofuel / wind generator project amongst other things (cold fusion potential, etc), then I would be cheering on the carbon tax..because it would work. Once there is a cheaper and cleaner way to get energy, china and the like will immediately swap over. Corporatists run the world, so we gotta play their game. In a way, that challenge could be a good thing though, I personally don't want to alter my lifestyle or live in the dark, so innovation needs to be the shout here. If the deniers would simply stop their pro-oil chant and instead demand invention, we could actually solve a big g.d. problem. But instead, they just continue to tote the line of stagnation, corporate oligarchy, luddite mentality, and denial.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Lets stop this right here.
even if is not applicable here. it is verified peer reviewed private and public global consensus of scientists. 97% of all studies have concluded, confirmed, and demonstrated this. it is a theory in its scientific sense, not in your stoner friends "theory" context. It is happening, this is not open for debate. What is (for some reason) still being debated is to what extent man is responsible for. Most data shows a significant amount. There is less and less wiggle room as more studies are put in.

There are two sides to this debate. There are two sides of the scientific world and thinking on this matter. At LEAST two. I'd say several, but most certainly not just 97% believing the same theory and same causation.

I am debating this same thing on another thread and would love to see that 97% number documented though. After all, it would be necessary to make a coherent argument, right?

The fact CLIMATE CHANGE is happening, is obvious. That's true in the technical sense. The Almanac alone can show there is trending change, up and down. A couple years ago, over 80% of the nation was under some form of drought condition. Now, thats largely faded back to the chronic and traditional areas that are known across the decades as being drought prone.

As others have pointed out, far from every continent and area being warmer this year or last, it varies. Some are warmer and numerical evidence shows it. Many are within statistical average and some are colder. A couple, The Americas included, have broken many records (1,000 records in one period this season for the U.S....as I'd done a thread about it for the novelty of it) and record storms of both rain and snow around the world, depending on what Hemisphere and what part of it.

It's a bad scene for weather out there ....... but there absolutely *ARE* two sides to the debate for cause and trend indications...as there are for most every topic.

Here in France I am quite pleased with the changes so far, for the second year, we seem to have less extreme weather in all seasons- summer never got too hot, and now winter doesn't seem to be getting too cold. I feel like I'm back in California again (without drought- here we have an abundance of water and flooding). We had very little snow last year, and it looks liek we won't get any this year. I am thrilled. I hate driving on ice.

But....I never got deeply into the whole subject, but my understanding was that part of global warming includes things like freezing temps in parts of the earth, and another ice age. (following upon initial warming in some areas)?

I feel that the title of this post is a bit absurd.

You wouldn't call the people of North Korea arrogant because they believe their leader Kim Jong Un is the first person to walk on the moon (true story).

You would call them extremely misinformed...

As an American I can tell you that misinformation is the problem, not arrogance.

Wrabbit2000

Yep
here ya go: NASA Source
I said 97% for climate change.
Seems I am wrong, the 97% is not just climate change, but man influenced climate change...

Yes, there are two sides of the argument, there are also two sides of Santa's existence.

On matters involving atmospheric studies, I am going to go with NASA over...some random oil baron and his stooge politician

reply to post by Rezlooper


The Direct Result of Temperture Extremes upon the Surface of the Earth is due to our Sun , and not from Man Made Causes . The Milankovitch Cycles Explain this Phenomenon in Detail .



www.climatedata.info...

You're confusing accuracy for arrogance. I don't buy it.

onequestion
reply to post by Agit8dChop

 

Its arrogant to think we have more control over the weather then the cosmic ebbs and flow of the universe.

Its ignorant to think we can pump chemicals into the air and oceans for 100yrs and believe it will have no effect.

I don't doubt that there is cycles from our sun.. but this particular cycle is going to be different because of what we've done.

I don't know if global warming is real or not,but the last years we haven't seen any real winter in south Europe, Right now we have 19 c (67 f) and we are in the heart of the winter.I remember it used to snow in winter, now it is always sunny with very few cloudy days and much fewer rains. As for the summer, it is hot as hell. I hate this climate.

Rezlooper

South America...not sure, haven't checked lately.

Heatwaves

www.bbc.co.uk...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

reply to post by SaturnFX


I came back to say thanks for that link. It led to something entirely different I'll be up the rest of the night reading. I honestly had no idea how totally insane some of the people on the AGW movement side were.(The majority I've ever known wouldn't agree to some of this. No way)..but if people haven't read more than just the "famous" IPCC report, they need to. Badly, IMO.

WGI / WGII / WGIII Expert Meeting on Geoengineering – Lima, Peru

The link to view the PDF is under 2011 / June and it honestly is exactly what that report title sounds like. I'm absolutely stunned and I'm only on page 50, with that only the second doc I've read so far. We have a forum here dedicated to what that report talks about doing in cold, scientific terms and favors as the most effective, short term and proactive solution.

I will say what I just stumbled over for the totality of it changes my outlook on this debate radically and probably forever. Now I need to take a bit to fully settle in with what I'm reading. This isn't about carbon credits at all, and it's so much more...but I have a lot more research to do from this starting point. Funny how fate works...thanks very much for the lead.

Rezlooper

This is usually snow covered Siberia and a frozen river. Usually temps as low as -40C, but instead they have been above freezing with rain.

It looks like the bridge across the Potomac...how different are you guys really?

Other than that, because of climatic perturbations you will have extremes at both ends, but the overall trend will be the thing to watch.

I agree with you, fwiw.