Ancient Aliens...The best evidence

reply to post by Curious69


I agree with Curios69 that these figurines are more towards an art setting for longevity, there is prominent ideology with fertility in our ancient past. To the OP I can see how when looking at the figurines and seing the similarities from two very different cultures that one would assume there is something that would connect them. Where as Aliens being a good point as who else can travel around the world at such a speed to share information or in this case be seen for long enough to be portrayed in clay. But as I am from Malta fertility figurines arent uncomon and nearly the whole ancient world has them. Even found a possible explanation to the 'Space suit' looking appearance -

http:///popular-archaeology.com/issue/april-2011/article/of-temples-and-goddesses-in-malta

If one had to guess from the shape of them, the broad shoulders tapering to narrow hips do suggest maleness in the same way that the plump ones say "mother".

It seems that most cultures from the past did have a staple for how to carve/mould figures for male and female sculptures and this was mearly a way to do it simply and artisticly just like our Stickman we all doodle.

IMO I believe this sculptures and figurines across the world in the past were more like token advertisments - Being that around 7000BC there were still more nomadic tribes than settled and developing ones. Best way in my opinion for your family/culture to grow is by showing this figurines while on the move during hutting season or following the winter rain. Basically saying 'Look come to where we stay and see our fertile women and our strong shouldered men!'

Just a thought, maybe our world past and present is simpler than we make it to be. I love the idea of Ancient Aliens but I still feel we are the same as back thousands of years ago. Allways asking and always searching

Sorry this is my first time on ATS as a poster and not sure how this will come accross hope its along the right lines.

Peace out.

Curious69
reply to post by Kantzveldt

 

I do a lot of sculpting in clay. those "human"forms are the most viable if you want the figures to last for a longer period.
you dont want to make thin pertruding forms if you want your "art" to last.

Maltese5Rhino
reply to post by Curious69

 

I agree with Curios69 that these figurines are more towards an art setting for longevity,

There are many theories on what they were used for with the main agreement being they were a talisman for good health or safe childbirth. As many were excavated in fragments, it's believed that after the wish was fulfilled, or not, the dogu was broken and thrown on the trash heap; that's where many were discovered.

Japanese pottery

It would seem that no matter what these guys are, they would have been made to be broken. So I don't think they were sculpting those strange figures for longevity. At least not in Japan anyhow.

reply to post by Doodle19815


Good point.... Actually most finds are in bundles of a sort where one site turns up hundreds of items of a similar nature. I do like the idea that they were made for a purpose spiritually then disgarded. Which does explain a good part of why they could be made in the first place. I am still reading up on these figures in Japan and Ukraine.

Kantzveldt


I'm fully aware and informed of all that is recorded from those periods and what had preceded them in terms of stylized representations,

This is a clear and critical mistake, to propose that you are "fully aware and informed" of something of this vast a scope?
I am afraid that is reckless because we both know it's not possible.

In art analysis one look to what has gone before in order to provide context toward understanding, that is lacking here, these appear as if from nowhere, there is no understandable function or derivative for them, particularly the males one's, for the female a standard response can be something to do with fertility/procreation, and yet that is not reflected in the male counterparts.

You mean you reject everyone's suggestions ?
Because many scholars have suggested it's merely a representation of the Deity *one of the possibilities*.

If you are able to tell the "counterparts" are "male", than how can you say they reflect no fertility aspects?
Clearly being recognizably "Male" in comparison to the "Female" counterparts, is a fertility-procreation reference by default.

Here's the thing, it deeply concerns me that what i consider important evidence for extra-terrestrial contact is being ignored by the academic community whilst they offer no plausible counter argument, that it is only ever presented in a farcical manner in shows such as Ancient Aliens that knowingly misrepresent and bring into disrepute and ridicule anything and everything they ever touch.

I also am of the presumption we are being withheld information about this topic specifically, but we have no direct reasons to conclude that these particular statues have anything to do with ET. It's pure speculation and rather than disregarding other suggestions we should remain open to many possibilities until we find out for sure what's going on here.

I am not against your suggestion it may be ET inspired, but I am worried that you may be closing yourself to alternatives as a result of lacking data that would make the situation more clear. I am open to the ET suggestion but need more solid evidence to support it.

I usually read your threads, and don't have much to say, but you are making a lot of mistakes today (which is not normal for you).
If you want someone to talk to in private you are welcome to U2U me anytime. I am at your service.

Also for fun, since I didn't see anyone say it yet, I'll play with the name to show what's possible.


"Dogu" ?

Dog U
U God (Backwards)

It already seems significant because these references are clearly related.

Could be an important association.

Here is a link to Sothis

Sothis (Greek: Σῶθις) is the name of a star that the Egyptians considered unusually significant. The star is not explicitly identified, but there are enough clues for modern scholars to be almost unanimous in identifying Sothis as Sirius.
Plutarch states that The soul of Isis is called Dog by the Greeks
Sothis was identified with Isis in many Egyptian texts
The Greeks called Sirius the Dog (Κύων)
Sirius is the brightest star visible in the sky
The first appearance of Sirius in the sky each year occurs just before the annual Nile flooding
The Greeks called the Sirius period the Dog Days and associated them with the hottest days of summers as well as diseases 'caused' by this heat. The Egyptians also associated the Sothic period (of Sirius) with epidemics

Now isn't it interesting these figurines (in the OP) are thought to be associated with "Health" according to some researchers?
I think there are interesting connections here and I will look more into it later as the day progresses.
It may or may not be related so back to digging.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull



The thing is with the Vinca figures they create so many 'firsts' and do not conform to expectations, in that it presents a genre of observed mannerism for the first time, as the poses are diverse, often natural and candid and give every indication of having been observed and faithfully represented, given the consistent costume detail.

Figurines that are created for ritual or religious purpose always tend to conform to certain standardized forms, in that the essence of ritual is repeatability and conformity to certain requirments, the same will go for any idealized fertility effigies, always tending toward the most basic of forms and the tendency toward the symbolic.

In observing the figures in such detail the craftsmen betray a fascination for the aspects of pattern, the beauty of the styling and imposing quality of the helmet, as well as the physiology of the female figurines in the context of the raised mask, and it is this desire to reproduce what was seen that has taken the figurines to an an entirely new level in terms of quality, to anything ever created previously in the Neolithic manufacture of clay figurines.

I cannot say that what inspired those figurines was alien, only that the artistic analysis suggests they found what they were representing remarkable and attempted to create a likeness as faithful as possible to what they saw.


reply to post by Curious69


No i was suggesting the red and black diagonal features can only ever be costuming because it is always seen in conjunction with the padding, the segmentation and raised surface levels and is deeply incised.


reply to post by Maltese5Rhino


It's the date that's important with the Vinca figurines, from that point on indeed derivative versions of such type spread throughout the Near East and into Northern India and were produced in great number, they were all the rage for a couple of thousand years, fading out with the rise of the Sumerian civilization, the Ubaid culture and figurines for example.

The further in place and time then the greater the variation, some looking to have bird features, some ophidian, some tending toward the symbolic in terms of the 'Eye' idols, the whole anthropomorphic package, but none having the detail and quality of the Vinca figurines or naturalistc mannerism, which i suggest then is the source for the extensive fascination.


reply to post by muzzleflash


Not really because there's so little of it relatively speaking, any documented and reproduced effigy pre-dating Vinca culture i'll have seen it as i make it my business to be aware of what's out there, but it isn't much.

I can say the male figurines aren't connected to fertility because they have their pants on, it's that simple, and neither is there any context for being a Deity or figure of worship, that's just the rules.

To suggest they are extra-terrestrial on my part is simply down to lack of any other explanation for them that satisfies me, going with whatever option remains all others having been discounted, so i am happy enough to provoke debate here along such lines and challenge more rigourously than i normally would any counter suggestion, it's the object of the exercise, i haven't gone bonkers

reply to post by Kantzveldt


That was creepy, Just about to reply but you hit the nail on the head.......... Timeline is important here. Now I know sometimes wiki isnt full of fact but what im finding is that the figurines found show similar detial but some cases there are thousands of years between one and another. This could be bad dating or bad resources, but does make me ask. How does an image of something remain nearly the same after a couple of generations let alone hundreds. Would they just copy the previous sculptor or did they still have sight of what they were replicating. I.E if it was Aliens in space suites that means they either stayed for all that time or kept coming and going.

Wiki..

The Jōmon period (縄文時代 Jōmon jidai?) is the time in Prehistoric Japan from about 12,000 BC[1] and in some cases cited as early as 14,500 BC[2] to about 300 BC

I can see alot of specific markings on these figures and does raise a few questions but then again do we have any reference on what was the preferred clothing of the people in these areas? cause (now I know its no where near time wise) samuri amour can be depicted as a helmet with a viser that moves up.

But keep researching cause you have made alot of good points and Im quite enjoying the research myself.

I dont see helmets. I see a forehead with a brow bone tbat is prominent t. I also see classic almond shaped eyes common to the Asian race except for the one with the circle eyes. I see traditional Japanese ceremonial clothing. I guess we see what we want to see. I joined ATS to find proof of alien visitation and this site has convinced me that it just isn't happening . That show is a farce.

Blue Shift
As with all attempts at "best evidence," my comment is once again, "If this is the best we've got, then it's all a load of crap."

I agree 100%. If this is the best we don't have doodly squat. As I've said this site has made me a skeptic so those of you who believe your posts don't change people's minds here is your proof that they actually do . I was certain and now I am full of doubts. You guys showed me how to be critical in my observations.

Dogu

Dogū (土偶?) are small humanoid and animal figurines made during the late Jōmon period (14,000–400 BC) of prehistoric Japan.A Dogū come exclusively from the Jōmon period. By the Yayoi period, which followed the Jōmon period, Dogū were no longer made. There are various styles of Dogū, depending on exhumation area and time period. According to the National Museum of Japanese History, the total number found throughout Japan is approximately 15,000. Dogū were made across all of Japan, with the exception of Okinawa.[1] Most of the Dogū have been found in eastern Japan and it is rare to find one in western Japan. The purpose of the Dogū remains unclear but, most likely, the Dogū acted as effigies of people, that manifested some kind of sympathetic magic.[2] For example, it may have been believed that illnesses could be transferred into the Dogū, then destroyed, clearing the illness, or any other misfortune. Dogū should not be confused with the clay haniwa funerary objects of the Kofun period (250 – 538).[3]

土偶 ???

土偶 = Dual Earth
土 = Earth, Dust, Terra
偶 = Even, Accidental, Pair, Dual, Spouse, Idol, Image, Occasionally, Once in Awhile, By Chance, By Accident

The Shakōki-dogū (遮光器土偶?) are dogū created in the Jōmon era, and are so well known that when most Japanese hear the term dogū, this is the image that comes to mind. The name "shakōki" (literally "light-blocking device") comes from the resemblance of the figures' eyes to traditional Inuit snow goggles. Another distinguishing feature of the objects are the exaggerated, feminine buttocks, chest and thighs.[7] Furthermore, the abdomen is covered with patterns, many of which seem to have been painted with vermilion. The larger figures are hollow, presumably in order to prevent cracking during the firing process.

遮光器土偶 = Dual Earth Chopper
遮光器 = Chopper, Shutters, Light Shield
遮 = Cover, Hide, Blot Out, Screen, Conceal, Blank, Wimple
光 = Light, Shine, Brightness, Ray, Luster, Honor, Scenery, Smooth, Bare, Naked, Polished, and "Merely"
器 = Implement, Ware, Organ, Utensil, Capacity, Talent

Jomon period

The very long—approximately 14,000 years—Jōmon period is conventionally divided into a number of phases: Incipient, Initial, Early, Middle, Late and Final, with the phases getting progressively shorter. Most dates for the change of phase are broadly agreed, but dates given for the start of the Incipient phase still vary rather considerably, from about 14,000 BC to 10,500 BC. The fact that this entire period is given the same name by archaeologists should not be taken to mean that there was not considerable regional and temporal diversity; the chronological distance between the earliest Jōmon pottery and that of the more well-known Middle Jōmon period is about twice as long as the span separating the building of the Great Pyramid of Giza from the 21st century.
Dating of the Jōmon sub-phases is based primarily upon ceramic typology, and to a lesser extent radiocarbon dating.

縄文時代 = Age of Jomon, Jomon Era
縄文 = Jomon
時代 = Era, Epoch, Age, Period

縄 = Okinawa
文 = *Man*, *Money*, Culture, Language, Writing, Script, Character, Formal Ritual, Literary Composition, Certain Natural Phenomena, Literary, Gentle, Refined, Paint
時 = Time, Times, Season, Tense, Hour, Chance, Opportunity, From Time to Time, Now and Then, Occasionally
代 = Generation, Era, Geological Era, Period, Substitute, Replace

Please note the critical Clue here : 文 which can be "Man".

Hit Translate on this Wiki: zh.Wiki 文

Man may refer to:
Writing
Man (currency) , Chinese ancient smallest currency unit, the so-called "one penny, hold down the hero Han"
Surnamed Wen , Chinese surnames one
Ministry , Chinese radical one
Prose or parallel prose " poem word one song Man "
Liberal arts

Alright, now we can find obscure correlations of a somewhat uncanny nature.
Chinese Yuan Wiki

In many parts of China, renminbi (simplified Chinese: 人民币; traditional Chinese: 人民幣; pinyin: rénmínbì) are counted in kuai (simplified Chinese: 块; traditional Chinese: 塊; pinyin: kuài; literally "piece") rather than "yuan".
In Cantonese, widely spoken in Guangdong, Hong Kong and Macau, kuai, jiao, and fen are called man (Chinese: 蚊; Tongyong Pinyin: mān), houh (Chinese: 毫; Tongyong Pinyin: hòuh), and sin (Chinese: 仙; Tongyong Pinyin: sīn), respectively. Sin is a word borrowed into Cantonese from the British cent.

Sin Sent me because I Sense the Cents with my Sensei? Say, that's the Centurion of ?
Man = Sin *Clearly!*

Sinai , Sino, Seres = Ancient names for China in Greek
Names of China Wiki

Seres (Σηρες)[edit]
Main article: Seres
Seres (Σῆρες) was the ancient Greek and Roman name for the northwestern part of China and its inhabitants. It meant "of silk," or "land where silk comes from." The name is thought to derive from the Chinese word for silk, "si" (simplified Chinese: 丝; traditional Chinese: 絲; pinyin: sī). It is itself at the origin of the Latin for silk, "serica". See the main article Seres for more details.

It's the Series of Ceres the Serrated Seraph of Sarah. (Etymologically)

Ser[edit]
An earlier usage than Sin, possibly related.
Greek: Seres, Serikos
Latin: Serica
This may be a back formation from serikos (σηρικος), "made of silk", from sêr (σηρ), "silkworm," in which case Seres is "the land where silk comes from."

Sin[edit]
A name possibly of origin separate from Chin.
Arabic: Ṣin صين
French/English (prefix of adjectives): Sino- (i.e. Sino-American), Sinitic (the Chinese language family).
Hebrew: סין
Latin: Sinæ
Whether the name mentioned in the Hebrew Bible in Genesis 10:17, where it is said that the Sinites are descendants of Canaan, the son of Ham, is the same word for Chinese is debatable.
It's thought that this term may have come to Europe through the Arabs, who made the China of the farther east into Sin, and perhaps sometimes into Thin. Hence the Thin of the author of the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, who appears to be the first extant writer to employ the name in this form; hence also the Sinæ and Thinae of Ptolemy.
Some denied that Ptolemy's Sinæ really represented the Chinese. But if we compare the statement of Marcianus of Heraclea (a condenser of Ptolemy), when he tells us that the "nations of the Sinae lie at the extremity of the habitable world, and adjoin the eastern Terra incognita," with that of Cosmas Indicopleustes, who says, in speaking of Tzinista, a name understood as referring to China,[citation needed] that "beyond this there is neither habitation nor navigation", it seems probable that the same region is meant by both. Ptolemy's misrendering of the Indian Sea as a closed basin—i.e., placing the Chinese coast along its eastern boundary—should not necessarily be seen as a counterargument, as also he described what is unmistakably India with similarly erroneous geography. Most scholars still believe Sinæ is China.[citation needed]

Man = Coins = Sin right? This is established now, so look at this:

Isle of Man
Manx People
Note the dating associated with it:

The earliest traces of people in the Isle of Man date to around 8000 BC, during the Mesolithic Period, also known as the Middle Stone Age. Small, nomadic family groups lived in campsites, hunting wild game, fishing the rivers and coastal waters and gathering plant foods.[2]
The Neolithic period was marked by important economic and social changes. By 4000 BC, people once reliant upon the uncultivated natural resources of the land and sea had adopted cereal growing and stock rearing, using imported species of grain and animals. Large scale clearance of natural woodland provided fields for crops and animal fodder.[3]

Manx Pound

The Manx pound (Manx: Punt Manninagh) is the currency of the Isle of Man, in parity with the pound sterling.[1] The Manx pound is divided into 100 pence.

Manx (cat), a cat breed with no tail or sometimes a short tail, originating on the Isle of Man
Manx Loaghtan, a breed of sheep, originating on the Isle of Man
Manx Rumpy, a breed of chicken, not originating on the Isle of Man
Manx Robber Fly (Machimus cowini), an insect
Manx Shearwater (Puffinus puffinus), a sea bird
Isle of Man cabbage (Coincya monensis monensis), sometimes called the Manx cabbage
Cabbage tree (New Zealand) (Cordyline australis), sometimes called the Manx palm
Extinct animals from the Isle of Man

Manx Minuet, a member of the band Mistula
Manx Norton, a racing motorcycle
Manx pound, the currency of the Isle of Man
Manx Radio, the national radio station of the Isle of Man
Manx spirit, a clear whisky from the Isle of Man
Meyers Manx, a dune buggy
Varius Manx, a Polish pop group
Handley Page Manx, an experimental British aircraft from World War II
Harry Manx, a Manx-born Canadian musician
Manx Software (named after the cat), developers of the Aztec C compiler.

So what is missing?
It's clear as day now isn't it? Think geographically, who would be in-between ancient Isle of Man and Japan?
Thule
Ultima Thule

Thule (/ˈθjuːliː/;[1][2][3] Greek: Θούλη, Thoúlē), also spelled Thula, Thila, or Thyïlea, is, in classical European literature and maps, a region in the far north. Though often considered to be an island in antiquity, modern interpretations of what was meant by Thule often identify it as Norway,[2][4] an identification supported by modern calculations.[5] Other interpretations include Orkney, Shetland, and Scandinavia. In the Late Middle Ages and Renaissance, Thule was often identified as Iceland or Greenland. Another suggested location is Saaremaa in the Baltic Sea.[6][7] The term ultima Thule in medieval geographies denotes any distant place located beyond the "borders of the known world". Sometimes it is used as a proper noun (Ultima Thule) as the Latin name for Greenland when Thule is used for Iceland.

Specifically though, we need to look into Thule Peoples

The Thule (/ˈtuːliː/ or /ˈθjuːl/)[1] or proto-Inuit were the ancestors of all modern Inuit. They developed in coastal Alaska by AD 1000 and expanded eastwards across Canada, reaching Greenland by the 13th century.[2] In the process, they replaced people of the earlier Dorset culture that had previously inhabited the region. The appellation "Thule" originates from the location of Thule (relocated and renamed Qaanaaq in 1953) in northwest Greenland, facing Canada, where the archaeological remains of the people were first found at Comer's Midden. The links between the Thule and the Inuit are biological, cultural, and linguistic.

Now we are almost to our answer:
Dorset Culture
Dorset = Door to Set?

Inuit legends recount them driving away people they called the Tuniit (singular Tuniq) or Sivullirmiut (First Inhabitants). According to legend, the First Inhabitants were "giants", people who were taller and stronger than the Inuit, but who were easily scared off.[1] Scholars now believe the Dorset and the later Thule people were the peoples encountered by the Norse who visited the area. The Norse called these indigenous peoples skræling.

So they scared off the original inhabitants which they called "Giants"? This is the motif used in legend to explain the megalithic sites very commonly around the world. Anyone want to guess what color their hair was just for fun?

Now I present to you the Tupilaq

In Greenlandic Inuit (Kalaallit) traditions, a tupilaq (tupilak, tupilait, or ᑐᐱᓚᒃ[1][2]) was an avenging monster fabricated by a practitioner of witchcraft or shamanism by using various objects such as animal parts (bone, skin, hair, sinew, etc.)[2] and even parts taken from the corpses of children. The creature was given life by ritualistic chants. It was then placed into the sea to seek and destroy a specific enemy.

Meant to be destroyed too eh? See the similarities now? How deep they run ? This is the tip of the iceberg.
Sinew eh?

Iglulik
The tupilaq was an invisible ghost. Only the shaman could notice it. It was the soul of a dead person, which became restless because the breach of some death taboo. It scared game away from the vicinity. Thus, the shaman had to help by scaring it away with a knife.[14]

Caribou Inuit
The tupilaq was also an invisible being. Like an Iglulik, also the shaman was the only one who could see it. It was a chimera-like creature, with human head and parts from different species of animals. It was dangerous, it could attack the settlement. Then, the shaman had to combat it and devour it with his/her helping spirits.[14]

Greenland
The tupilaq was manifested in real, human-made object. It was made by people to the detriment of their enemies. It was a puppet-like thing, but was thought of have magical power onto the victim. It might be made e.g. of mixed parts of dead animals and dead children.[14]

Copper Inuit
To the Copper Inuit the tupilaq was similar to the Christian Devil.[15]

So let's review Tikoloshe

In Zulu mythology, Tikoloshe, Tokoloshe or Hili (from the Xhosa word utyreeci ukujamaal[clarification needed]) is a dwarf-like water sprite. It is considered a mischievous and evil spirit that can become invisible by drinking water. Tokoloshes are called upon by malevolent people to cause trouble for others. At its least harmful a tokoloshe can be used to scare children, but its power extends to causing illness and even death upon the victim. The way to get rid of him is to call in the n’anga (witch doctor), who has the power to banish him from the area..

These are the Zulu myths. It may not appear related initially, so dig. They share very many features although they are separate and distinct.
It's associated with harmful intentions, taboos, social order, health and sickness (thus witch "doctor"), etc.

So let's Surf the Sine of the Waving Flame to see the Sign of Man (Sin):

Tokoloshe is the full name of Tok, the mascot for the English surfing and clothing company Saltrock.

Saltrock Wiki

Saltrock Surfwear is a British surfwear company, originating in Penzance, Cornwall. Created by brothers Angus and Ross Thompson, the idea was to generate money to fund their passion of surfing. The brothers moved the company to Devon in 1992 when surfer Carl Priscott joined the board.

Seriously yall read my thread Shade of the Sha as it's relating directly to all of this and I'll probably copy this post in there too (or portions of it).

reply to post by Maltese5Rhino



The Jomon figures that interested me the most here in having the most in common with the Vinca figurines tend to be the earliest forms, rather than the later elaborate bronze age versions, so perhaps then not as distant in time from those of the Ukraine as i suggested would be the case with the Late versions.

But certainly in Japan they were produced in large quantity over a considerable time period and with the regional variations one would expect, they would have reproduced from earlier forms so in that sense the origin of the tradition is what needs to be understood, and this can be said to date back around 12,000 years which would be also the start of the Neolithic period in Syria/Anatolia, the culture from which the Vinca had originated, as well as the language of pattern, zig zags and diagonals and lozenges indicative of it

So the general time frame for the earliest origins could be common, and only the question of distance would remain.


reply to post by AutumnWitch657


And those of the Ukraine, they are also just your average Japanese person in traditional clothing as illustrated below....?

A little more before I gotta go for a little bit:


Asilidae

The Asilidae are the robber fly family, also called assassin flies. They are powerfully built, bristly flies with a short, stout proboscis enclosing the sharp, sucking hypopharynx.[1][2] The name "robber flies" reflects their notoriously aggressive predatory habits; they feed mainly or exclusively on other insects and as a rule they wait in ambush and catch their prey in flight.

I got here from the Manx Robber Fly connection earlier.

So what is this, the Assassin that Flies?
Beelzebub aka Ba'al the Lord of the Flies?
Baal Wiki

"Baʿal" can refer to any god and even to human officials.
In some texts it is used for Hadad, a god of the rain, thunder, fertility and agriculture, and the lord of Heaven.

Asil (Latin) = Horsefly, Gadfly
"A Seal" ? Let's break it.

Asil (Turkish) = Noble, Aristocratic, Royal, Dignified, Sublime, Grand, Of Noble Birth, Superior, Lordly, Gently Born, Born in Purple, of Gentle Birth, Well-bred, Blue Blood

Idae (Latin) = Mount Ida, of Ida
Mount Ida wiki

In Greek mythology, two sacred mountains are called Mount Ida, the "Mountain of the Goddess": Mount Ida in Crete; and Mount Ida in the ancient Troad region of western Anatolia (in modern-day Turkey) which was also known as the Phrygian Ida in classical antiquity and is the mountain that is mentioned in the Iliad of Homer and the Aeneid of Virgil. Both are associated with the mother goddess in the deepest layers of pre-Greek myth, in that Mount Ida in Anatolia was sacred to Cybele, who is sometimes called Mater Idaea ("Idaean Mother"),[1] while Rhea, often identified with Cybele, put the infant Zeus to nurse with Amaltheia at Mount Ida in Crete. Thereafter, his birthplace was sacred to Zeus, the king and father of Greek gods and goddesses.[2]

The name Ida (Ἴδη) is of unknown origin. Instances of i-da in Linear A are often conjectured to refer to either this mountain or the homonymous one in Crete.

Mount Ida (Crete)

Mount Ida, known variously as Idha, Ídhi, Idi, Ita and now Psiloritis (Greek: Ψηλορείτης, "high mountain"), is the highest mountain on Crete.

Mount Ida (Turkey)

Mount Ida (Turkish: Kazdağı, pronounced [kazdaːɯ], meaning "Goose Mountain",[1] Kaz Dağları, or Karataş Tepesi) is a mountain in northwestern Turkey, some 20 miles southeast of the ruins of Troy, along the north coast of the Gulf of Edremit (tr). The name Mount Ida is the ancient one.

So Asilidae could have an important association with such translations as "The Royal from Mount Ida", etc.
Ida gives me Ideas about the Ides.

Anyways, if anyone has any questions hit me up.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


LOL the Power rangers maid me giggle..... On the other hand very true about the distance between the cultures and how there are such similarities with the figurines . I beleive muzzleflash did meantion a link between japan and the Isle of Man which does have some ground to work on. But in reallity all we have here is clay sculptures that may depict human/alien/timetraveller/or just plain imagination of the sculptor. This reminds me of a painting I once seen of a field of dead from WW1 which the artist titled 'River of Love' The artist themselve had the reasons for the name but by looking at the painting we get a different messege. This can be the same case with the figurines after all. We cannot know for sure why or what the ancient cultures based in Ukraine and Japan were truly dipicting but what I do know is that this is all we have found so far and the Vica Ornaments are from a specific area, more areas could hold more and a possible 'bread crum' trail could be found linking the two together giving us a step closer to a plausable answer whether it be Transatlantic Nomads from the same source to Aliens arriving or even my favourite........Future archeologists timetravelling back to find out what we are trying to now.......which when you think about it........a bit of a time wrap head wrap puzzle.

Titen-Sxull

Who is it, exactly, that dictates that aliens would even be humanoid? This seems like a convention of science fiction to me and nothing more. The idea that they look almost just like us seems similar to the way gods used to be depicted, anthropomorphism. Sure some ancient deities are fanciful, blending animals, human, and fantasy elements, but many were depicted as essentially human in form. So it makes sense to anthropomorphize our alien visitors too but all of that is mere fiction and to posit that the aliens are indeed visiting us and are indeed humanoid requires evidence all its own.

The majority of evidence that exists that aliens are visiting earth refers to humanoid type forms - at least in general outline (bipedal, 4 limbs). Most reports occurred from the 60's onwards and yet science fiction prior to that depicted aliens in a much wider variety of forms so it's probably a bit of a stretch to say it is a convention of SF.

In terms of deities depicted in human form it isn't just an ancient trait and isn't necessarily from a tendency to anthropomorphise, take Christianity for example.

Personally I don't see a great deal of similarity between the figurines from each culture and can put it down to coincidental general stylisation and some of the head shapes down to masks (or the wearing of animal skulls) but some are intriguing in their resemblance to the typical modern large eyed grey.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


These figures are not from Ukraine.
archaeology.about.com...

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Instead of just posting a ton of stuff in here since IDK if you are cool with that, I am just gonna add the continuation of the two posts above in my thread so as to not cause any further disturbance.

You really set me off on some tangents and I'm in the mood to post a bunch of stuff so....yeah.
I am at a great place to intertwine all of this with what's currently going on over there so it works out fine.

I will respond to anyone's Q's (but probably not insults, hah) in here but will back off with the info dump, I don't wanna be more pushy than I already am.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


I find this thread fascinating because it covers such intruiging artefacts.

I don't think the fact that there is a long time period between ancient peoples wearing similar dress is that surprising simply because in those days, despite being very industrious, people didn't have the fashion industries we have today and are use to, so styles of clothing probably hardly changed over long periods of time. Also people, unless going to sea or mining or doing specialised work probably carried out very similar everyday tasks, wherever they lived (except in extremes of climate) and would have worn the most suitable clothing for both their environment and tasks. If they rode then trousers would have been preferable to voluminous skirts etc

What backs up the question you raised for me is the proportion of the faces and the size of the eyes and how they are depicted.
One can understand that the shape of the top of the head coujld have been govered by a helmet as many ancient people wore armour of some sort, but the eyes and how they are depicted just don't seem to have human proportions. We wear goggles today but if one looks at most ancient and middle-ages statues, pictures often depict people wearing cloth around their heads as indeed worn still in the ME.

The Bible tells us that we are descended from Adam and were made by the Gods etc etc. This is simply the most ludicrous situation because it seems fine for people to accept the Creator of the Universe made us, but not a group of Gods living a garden, which is exactly what our supreme religious authority - the bible tells us. The Sumerian tablets tell of experimentation carried out over a period of time by the various Gods and our art shows depictions of part animal/part human beings literally across the world. Another example of this is simply that we haven't found any skeletal remains of actual dragons, yet most kids could describe a dragon far more easily than an actual dinosaur that we know for sure existed, which again suggests that its what we are exposed to as children that influences what we 'know' as adults.

I don't see your Alien ideas as that strange or odd because when one looks at the historical record in the ME of ancient carvings and images carved onto palace walls, one sees men, wearing fish heads and scaled 'cloaks' down nearly to their knees. Were this so strange and weird, we should see no reference to this type of headress today, however, the Pope wears the Mitre/fishhead which suggests that there is comething of considerable importance that most are not privy to being depicted here. No-one would choose to wear a fish-head without some special reason over such a long duration of time, least of all someone so important with so much control over our religious views which cover our creation.

There are a wealth of ornaments, carvings and pictures showing people with half animal bodies which suggest much experimentation being done in order to create a perfect hybrid. The Sumerian record tells us that the Gods were limited in numbers of wanted to mine gold here. We also know of huge earthworks depicting possible gold mining in Southern Africa that have hardly been researched, which would also b ack up the Suymerian records. Mostly though I saw on ATS some time ago a thread that showed some of the weirdest animals and fish etc that exist on the earth today. (I did look but hope someone else may remeber this thread). It showed a fish with human teeth. It freaked me out actually because it looked so strange and wrong somehow. But I kid you not, it had what looked like a perfect set of human nashers. That along with some of the other little beauties on that thread certainly opened my eyes to the derivations within nature that I can't see any other explanation for, except that somewhere, someone has meddled and obviously had a lot of fun .

I think your ideas are hard to blow out of the water.

reply to post by Shiloh7


I remember the link,
I Think you were refering to this one,

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What a smile

Back to your point with the eyes which caught my attention (no pun intended) Would it be just like the same principles of all the other body imperfections?

If I was to carve/mould a sculpture not perfect but 'scew-if'... and to carve/mould the eyes, making them large would be the only real change I would make. Making them small would look even odder IMO. Unless they were trying to depict in EXACT (or as humanly possible) detail wich would mean most of the form of the figures would be true to an extent which is harder to believe. Cause if the figures were made to look to scale then imagine the size of the eyes on that Alien........Grey eyes would look like black dots in comparrison.

But then again I doubt they were making them exact so the size of the eyes could be completely irrelevant.

reply to post by Maltese5Rhino


Cheers for the fish thread, damn things still freak me right out.

Take your point on the eyes and I won't go there over the legs and arms etc, except that the first two sets of figurines were more true to life for me being slim (something most people were till comparatively recently. I remember my Mother had a 22" waist and looked amazing, her waist would be thinner that some people's right thigh today.

I remember reading something about how the early Egyptians painted everyday scenes and the writer demonstrated the point that things were idealised more than taken from reality. He thought that images were inside our minds and that was literally how we drew things like trees etc. I found that perception hard because I look at something and can see it clearly I tend to copy what I am seeing or attempt to make it true to form when I draw.

The big fat 'goddesses' seem to be stylised but couldn't help noticing their heads where trouble had been taken to suggest either a special hat or hair-style. They always struck me as miniature bee-hives.

I know some cultures admired fat people. The Turkish felt it a good thing because it meant that a man could afford to feed his family and, I wondered in in the distant past this was the feeling being portrayed by the Goddesses in that all was right with the world because people could eat well. It was a different world when people had to hunt and farm for their food and every crop coun ted. Today although we are having trouble with flooding, erosion and snow etc our food production is spread out around the world so we can trade for food, but perhaps when the Goddesses were living what we take for granted was considered some kind of miracle or the old idea of Kingship and the husbandry of the land was at its best.

I am also reminded about a book I read where the author (someone like Graham Hancock - I have just moved home so my books are still rapped up and we will be moving again in a couple of months so I am not unpacking things unnecessarily till I have finished moving) He made the point that he had seen a group of dancers showing a dance from a South American country. He went to some event some time later and was astonished to watch a young Chinese lass, not only doing a very similar dance but also wearing virtually the same costume. He was fascinated because these two cultures were not considered to have met in the past but, clearly they had and they shared similar points in their cultures dances. The dance itself was unique and the audience were told it was the oldest dance from their repertoire.

I still look forward to finding out whether there is a 'missing link between us and all the other mammals etc on this planet or whether we are some 'constructed hybrid'. Hypothetically, were we made to work for masters who wanted a labour force, it is feasible that they would have travelled around the globe (were they sufficient advanced to be into genetics etc) so we obviously would have been deposited and travelled all over in the past the Sumnerian's describe. Whebn I come across the book I will let you know.

reply to post by gilcarlson


Hate to be a stick in the mud but advertising your own products is not allowed, and that a very steep price for a book found for free online.

I think our belief in ancient aliens is not just from the archolgical record but from the very real tangible data in the present pointing to unknown advanced technology running rings aroung us, those of us who have studied the UFO subject in depth know at the very
Least we are visited regularly by someone else,

Apply that knowledge to the sumerian creation story and other strange historical documentation , and the work that has been done with dna and our genome and it paints a very real picture of intervention and possibly even intelligent design.


Exciting times.