Surgeon suspended over 'branding' his initials on a liver!!

reply to post by PhoenixOD


If I were the doctor, I'd have left little messages like "Best before 109-12-79" or, "This way up". Maybe even little penises so the next doctor is totally blown away. I hope someday someone writes something on my liver. Something like "Foxconn" or "Made in China".

If I ever have a surgery, I'll ask.

The new trademark and copyright laws are a stone cold B !!!!!!!

Whilst what this surgeon did or may not have done had any detrimental affect on the patient, I can't believe that nobody has realised the real out cry to what this man did!

We are talking about donated livers here.....does the donor deserve no respect at all?....this guy has branded his initials on the liver/livers of people who may have died in tragic circumstances, but been organ donors......If your son/daughter/father/mother died in an accident and was an organ donor, would you want this man to sear his initials onto your loved ones liver for no other reason than his inflated ego?.......I'm going to say.....no.....no I wouldn't.

reply to post by schuyler


Would you do it if in the position to do so?

Argyll
Whilst what this surgeon did or may not have done had any detrimental affect on the patient, I can't believe that nobody has realised the real out cry to what this man did!

We are talking about donated livers here.....does the donor deserve no respect at all?....this guy has branded his initials on the liver/livers of people who may have died in tragic circumstances, but been organ donors......If your son/daughter/father/mother died in an accident and was an organ donor, would you want this man to sear his initials onto your loved ones liver for no other reason than his inflated ego?.......I'm going to say.....no.....no I wouldn't.

edit on 24/12/2013 by Argyll because: (no reason given)

edit on 24/12/2013 by Argyll because: (no reason given)

edit on 24/12/2013 by Argyll because: (no reason given)

As I understand it there has been no mention of a 'donated liver' it was an apparent

routine operation, and much has been inferred about a biopsy?


I repeat again that if it were a matter of life or death to my nearest and dearest I

wouldn't give a dam if it was autographed or not. Would you let your nearest and

dearest die because of one?

Brotherman
how exactly did this guy discover initials on liver?

From the OP...

A spokesman for the Trust refused to name the surgeon but sources have named Mr Bramhall, from Redditch, Worcestershire.

The initials were reportedly found by a colleague during a routine operation.

(Op Link)

I suppose I know as much as anyone else.... but it will be interesting to hear about all the circumstances on this, if folks follow up with later stories and they even release the details we're most interested in.

Hopefully, there is more to follow.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


with information already presented I forward the most likely the 2nd post addressed to you I put was only 1 of 2 check out my first thought you may have caught that one as well.

reply to post by Brotherman


Yeah, I'd caught your posts on the thread.... (I generally use the Mini-Profile menu option to view all posts on the entire thread by someone before replying)

I'd also noticed that outside your posts, no one else mentioned the word biopsy? I just want to be clear, did you read somewhere that this specific case was a biopsy procedure?

I wasn't able to find corroboration or anything specific released about what the procedures were here? (The one he burned the patient on or the latter one that found it?)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Biopsy is the only word I could find synonomous with routine surgery mixed with the doc in question and his profession, this is how I deduced this. I am sorry if my thoughts into matters in many posts I make are chaotic but I was trying to use deductive thinking. I posted everything with links that i read to draw a hypothesis I guess maybe next time I should spend an extra 40 mins or so after the hour and a half of reading to post my thoughts.

Colleague

Routine surgery

Liver

what is surgery
what is considered routine surgery
under context what is routine surgery involving liver and how is that conducted? (considering profession and 16 years of education and practice onto questioned surgeon)
these are key things the only thing that really matters minus a few i didnt want to rant about on forever with but i made a call using deduction and all that nifty-ness

ETC ETC this is part of why and how I used byopsy and i am sorry if i sound rude I just have a lot of thoughts on mind and i usually take interest in most of your thought and opinions sorry if i sound like a doosh but i dont mean to be

reply to post by Brotherman


I appreciate the clarification.. I was honestly confused and didn't want to spend any more time watching for followups or more info if that had been answered.

Does England usually release this kind of stuff? I know HIPAA in the US makes pretty much any medical info a 'check the regs' issue, at best. Almost absurdly so at times.

I really wonder how long after this, the other operation happened? How long did it have to heal from the immediate damage and still be visible? Hopefully more does come out... I'm a curious bunny now.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


INDEED.

As a group . . . surgeons score significantly higher on the MMPI "sadism" scale than the general population average.

I used to be slightly . . . dismissive of that fact. However . . . stories like this one have confirmed to me the validity of that research.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


My question is, are the going to cut the poor sod open for proof in a court of law? it is a crying shame they do not really mention the accuser in the media to scrutinize that individual (colleague) I can verify the accused is a many times over published and peer reviewed practioner of medicine I wonder if the routine surgery (by brit defintion as i pointed out in an early post 5B) was just a radiograph? How is the accuser going to prove evidence present the liver?

BO XIAN
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

INDEED.

As a group . . . surgeons score significantly higher on the MMPI "sadism" scale than the general population average.

I used to be slightly . . . dismissive of that fact. However . . . stories like this one have confirmed to me the validity of that research.

Bo I usually like things you present especially in evolutionary vs creation threads however i am forced to ask, "what research?"

dp

eletheia

Please show me where I said, or implied anything about cirrhosis or scarring??

With ease. You replied @ BADGERPRINTS to this specific post:

badgerprints
As I understand it, the liver is one of the fastest healing tissues. It continuously recycles it's cells due to the fact that it has to process so much.

I'm surprised that a scar would remain on the liver for very long.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Any surgeons out there who might know if a burn scar stays visible on the liver?

The above post specifically talks about scarring in relation to the branding. Your reply was this:

@ BADGERPRINTS I believe you are correct in your assumptions. The liver is the only

organ that can regenerate itself ........

You did not say assumption, you said assumptions, which implies that the liver may heal itself from scarring induced from branding.

The liver can't fully regenerate. There is a chunk of it that, when damaged, will never heal. Also, the tissues itself can be scarred so badly that they can't be regenerated. There's a difference from having a chunk removed, and having a chunk scarred.

schuyler
Oh, the horror of it all! I'm sure many are just OUTRAGED! But ask yourself, what real harm did it cause? Really. Did it "damage" the liver, even a little bit? Did it "harm" the patient, even a little bit? Did any medical complications result? Had there not been a subsequent non-related operation, would it ever have been found and noted by anyone? Just a few questions to ask as you go about being shocked and dismayed at the travesty of it all.

.
.

YES, it did actually damage the liver to at least a minor degree. True, livers can be somewhat regenerative. And, we can function on partial livers. But that's not the point.

Let's say you are having eye surgery. And for kicks the eye surgeon decides to tattoo above your eyebrow:

"DR ZORRO STRUCK HERE!"

Would you be thrilled on awakening and looking in the mirror the first time? After all, the tattoo didn't REALLY KILL your skin above your eyebrow!

Or say he tattooed the message in invisible ink only visible under black light. So you're on the dance floor at this wonderful club and this sweet beautiful gal . . . with an obviously super supremo personality . . . the potential love of your life . . . comes gliding up to you clearly interested in the next dance . . . only to take one startled look at your tattoo in the black light and run screaming to the other side of the room in dismay.

Would you THEN consider such a branding inconsequential and of no significance whatsoever?


Perhaps you have lost or never gained an understanding of the importance of . . .

RESPECT

. . . in the helping professions.

Indeed, perhaps you fail to understand the essential aspect of respect in all healthy, durable relationships.

Actually, RESPECT is essential for a very robustly functional social fabric and culture. It is certainly essential for self-respect and honorable long lasting relationships of mutual constructive supportiveness.

Many people with ATTACHMENT DISORDER . . .


www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.buzzle.com...

MANY people with ATTACHMENT DISORDER TEND TO BEHAVE as though RESPECT does not matter--BECAUSE their ORPHAN mentality, conditioning, values have shaped them to focus almost exclusively on scrabbling, clawing, desperately searching for, demanding, fighting for,

1. SAFETY
2. PROVISION

PERIOD.

However, just as common are those with ATTACHMENT DISORDER (read 80-95% of the population according to my definition) WHO get all brittle, huffy, hostile, vengeful . . . when they are NOT RESPECTED. And the conflicts ensue . . . or the anesthetizing of the emotional pains from such lack of RESPECT ensue . . . e.g. with alcohol, workaholism etc. . . . fostering yet MORE ATTACHMENT DISORDER with the children of THOSE individuals.

So, here we have a surgeon who's DISRESPECT for the man with the liver (if a donated liver--also DISRESPECT for the man who donated the liver) was BRAZENLY acted out in a super crass, arrogant, cheap-trick sort of way.

So . . . would YOU like to have such a man with such horrific lack of RESPECT for his patients operating on YOU . . . say in heart or brain surgery?

Perhaps his RESPECT for you would lapse at a critical point in the operation and he'd take a critical number of seconds out to sear his initials into your brain or heart . . . and fail to realize in his putting his ego above your life . . . that the crucial moments to save your life had just passed while he was branding your organs.

Would you be thrilled with that as your spirit went to your eternal destination?

Or . . . let's imagine that by some curious stretch of events you just happened to be watching an emergency surgery of your dearest spouse or daughter or son . . . and the surgeon is cutting and splicing and suturing . . . and suddenly takes some CRUCIAL moments out to ignore still spurting blood to sear his initials in a vital organ of your loved one . . . HOW WOULD YOU FEEL about THAT wholesale lack of RESPECT for your loved one and your loved one's life?

Imagine further, the plausibility that when you protest to the surgeon over his crass disregard for the welfare of your beloved relative . . . that his reply is something like:

"It's my trademark! I should charge you extra for my trademark! It's a work of art! Cool your jets! If I finish branding your beloved in time, I'll go back to saving their life."

Would you be thrilled? Blessed? Satisfied?

or outraged?

I realize that the globalist oligarchy has sold the masses--through their absolute control of the EDUCATION INSTITUTION; the MEDIA and the INTERTAINMENT industry--that

MAN IS NOTHING MORE THAN A RAT, A PIGEON, A RADISH OR A ROCK

therefore, individuals can be manipulated as serfs, slaves, objects, . . . even trash . . . whenever it suits those with power and authority.

That does NOT mean you have to join them in their mentality and values.

I, for one, do NOT join them in their hideousness. Therefore, I still have sufficient independent thought and foundational values to scream !OUTRAGEOUS! at OUTRAGEOUS behavior on the elite's and egotists, narcissists' attitudes, values and behaviors.

Perhaps you fail to understand the DEVASTATING actions and the degree of DESTRUCTIVENESS to the nation and to individuals and their identities and freedoms inflicted on us all by the ARROGANT NARCISSISTS . . . the supremely smug elites flushing us so energetically down the chute to hell as a nation and as individuals.

The Narcissist-in-Chief/Destroyer-in-Chief on Penn Ave in D.C. is merely the most glaring and obvious example.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.

.

Brotherman

BO XIAN
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

INDEED.

As a group . . . surgeons score significantly higher on the MMPI "sadism" scale than the general population average.

I used to be slightly . . . dismissive of that fact. However . . . stories like this one have confirmed to me the validity of that research.

Bo I usually like things you present especially in evolutionary vs creation threads however i am forced to ask, "what research?"

Thanks for your kind comments.

That research mentioned by my professor teaching us the MMPI and the supplemental scales of the MMPI during my PhD program . . . about 35-40 years or so ago--around 1976.

I haven't Googled it to try and track it down. My comment was from memory.

Here's some links from a quick use of

dogpile.com

that MAY support my assertion. I haven't tracked down the specific paragraphs in all cases:

I just picked some likely candidates for such support. I don't have time or energy to ferret out the specific paragraphs that may apply.

My assertion was "common knowledge" among my professors who were proficient in the MMPI.

= = = =

... sadism, and masochism. ... conscious death anxiety of physicians (surgeons, internists, ... scale of the MMPI in the range of -.42 to -.65. These

from:

ufdc.ufl.edu...

= = =



www.science.gov...

= = =

Sorry, I scanned 7 pages of the dogpile.com listing of potential hits in articles online . . . I'm not willing to devote more time to it.

However, I do have a lot of confidence in that remembered factoid from my profs.

reply to post by BO XIAN


From my understanding simply put MMPI is used to assess patients not doctors? Besides all of that psychology is not really an exact science IMO, and topic at hand:
the name of said surgeon that media source said didn't want to name but did.
Never did source mention the accuser.
No patient has filed a complaint.

Would psychology suggest this is some form of manipulation? What would the MMPI Scale say about the source of this information?

Kindest regards Bo

B-man

ETA scarring of liver is most synonymous with cirrhosis not always but most likely the doc in question deals with this as a specialty, something to think about as well.

Brotherman
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

From my understanding simply put MMPI is used to assess patients not doctors?

There are 10's of thousands--probably 100's of thousands of research studies using the MMPI on all manner of populations and subgroups. It's the most used such paper and pencil inventory in the history of psychology.

From all those research studies all manner of subscales have been added to the original scales derived from the original founding research on the MMPI. So, yes, the MMPI has been used to look at all kinds of subgroups in society--including Dr's, surgeons, and every other professional and job category.

Besides all of that psychology is not really an exact science IMO,

Actually considering the REALITIES of quantum physics, I don't think ANY "science" is an "exact science." LOL.

How can light, which can be a wave or a particle . . . be "exactly" examined?

Certainly psychology has its limitations that psychologists don't always acknowledge well.

However, it also has a LOT to offer the understanding of human psychology--mental and emotional make-up and, values, choices, actions, behavior.

and topic at hand:
the name of said surgeon that media source said didn't want to name but did.
Never did source mention the accuser.
No patient has filed a complaint.

I'm not sure what you're saying above. Those issues don't matter that much to me. The deed was crass and DISRESPECTFUL of the humanness, identity, SANCTITY of the individual concerned.

As a society, the elite have decreed that individuals are no more important than a rat, a pigeon, a radish or a rock. WE CAN SUBMIT to that DEHUMANIZING full court press by the oligarchy or we can resist it as best we can.

Would psychology suggest this is some form of manipulation? What would the MMPI Scale say about the source of this information?

That would depend on a list of factors unknown at present.

However, how important would those factors be about the one complaining about the deed? The deed is crass and disrespectful on the face of it. Related factors, imho, don't carry that much import COMPARED TO the DISRESPECTFUL CRASSNESS of the deed itself.

Kindest regards Bo

Likewise. You are a treasure. I hope you and family have a blessed CHRIST-mas and New Year. Thanks for your RESPECT hereon. It's not usually an abundantly plentiful commodity in my ATS "in-basket." LOL.

reply to post by BO XIAN


I cant go point for point like you have for me forgive me for this


I just do not believe with what I have read (on my own in regards to the OP), versus what I have seen posted in the OP that there is really any evidence to prove one way or another the doctor in question did any such thing (like using a laser or knife to someones liver with the intent to knowingly and willingly put his initials on an organ that is regenerative at a higher metabolic rate then any other organ). I am speaking in defense of a named accused doctor versus an un-named "colleague" and an un-named victim (which no place I looked found any complaint filed against said accused) that such a crime was committed. If a woman were to say I raped her whether true or not the news will publish local man raped (identity with held for privacy) local woman was incarcerated till time of trial bail not met. Forever will brotherman be a rapist true or untrue it is a pre emptive measure whether purposefully or not to sway an opinion based on knee jerk reactions and trust the public does not scrutinize finer details of a garbage report. At the least this is another example of a distraction as well as another defeat for tabloid want to be shock journalists. The most shocking thing I found in this article is its lack of IDK journalism and its abundance of speculative information. Now don't get me wrong here I do a lot of speculation and have all kinds of wild ideas and sometimes even post things on the internet, the difference is, is that I never aim speculation towards someone who saves lives and I try not to make pseudo cases for some kind of self fulfillment or idea bias against my own belief (hard to say in words what i am trying to convey here)

I am not so quick to believe everything the OP presented cant tell the OPer he or she is a liar but I will say that the article presented is sloppy and meant to cause a knee jerk reaction, it smells of agenda I just cant point out which bag of shi* it is referring too. Until I see a criminal complaint, a civil suit, name of the accuser, and the un-named accusers evidence, I believe whole hearted that this doctor is being effed with by some really really foolish people. This is only my opinion it may not be shared by other knee jerkers and tangent worthy because I said so'ers, in all my links throughout this thread I have provided enough information to cause reasonable doubt (again imo) that the whole story is BS.


Again Much Respect for you Bo I do usually star you because I like what you say


MMPI is for patients, lol they have boards that define ethics and practice for medical doctors and i do not think MMPI is part of this evaluation. When a doc is under question they do not use only psychology this doc has a clean record for a long long time almost as many years as i am old if you want to include his school and this information is publicly available as he is a practicing surgeon and is proud of his accomplishments and uses his credentials to keep himself employed. Where is the evidence?