Has the mystery of nine skiers who died half naked in the Siberian wilderness in 1959 been SOLVED? A

Astr0

Char-Lee
reply to post by dlbott

 

It seems odd that some of the bodies were there so long and were not eaten on by predators also.

Not odd at all. There isnt a Siberian predator that will eat frozen food. At deep winter above the snow line its common for bodies.to.remain untouched.

Are you nuts, these tigers have been found high in Himalaya mtns as well as Siberia, when they kill large prey they will eat sixty to seventy pounds the first night. They will bury carcass as do other big cats. They will return to feed over the next few days until gone and yes this means eating the frozen meat.

This is one of the reasons why almost every zoo that has these tigers will give them a frozen meat snack to the tigers. They love it and it does take them back to the wild. All high altitude cats, such as snow leopards and even puma in the states eat frozen carcass prey.

You simply don't know what you are talking about. Turn on animal planet or national geographic and watch them do it in the wild. I have personally watched two mountain lions eat a frozen elk in Colorado. This is natural high altitude cat activity.

Think about it, common sense tells you they have no choice.

The Bot

dlbott

Are you nuts, these tigers have been found high in Himalaya mtns as well as Siberia, when they kill large prey they will eat sixty to seventy pounds the first night. They will bury carcass as do other big cats. They will return to feed over the next few days until gone and yes this means eating the frozen meat.

This is one of the reasons why almost every zoo that has these tigers will give them a frozen meat snack to the tigers. They love it and it does take them back to the wild. All high altitude cats, such as snow leopards and even puma in the states eat frozen carcass prey.

You simply don't know what you are talking about. Turn on animal planet or national geographic and watch them do it in the wild. I have personally watched two mountain lions eat a frozen elk in Colorado. This is natural high altitude cat activity.

Think about it, common sense tells you they have no choice.

The Bot

Nice try. However you would then have to explain to me and thousands of other high altitude / hostile region travellers why our fellows have remained in places uneaten, preserved by wind, cold and snow year in year out, some for 20+ years.

is it the clothes? do your lolly pop loving tigers not like wrappers? no. The reason why zoo staff introduced frozen food is not because it is natural, but because it cools them down and offers a distraction from captivity.

Listen real close and you'll hear 'learned'.

Frozen food isn't natural for tigers, bears, elephants or monkeys. Its HUMAN introduced behaviour.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Tylerdurden1


Finally, a plausible theory

Don't know enough about this mans theory to really have an opinion about it. Probably unrelated but it reminded me of this.

Some settlers specifically spoke of the wind that rushed through the prairie, which was loud, forceful, and alien compared to what settlers had experienced in their former lives.

Wiki Prairie Madness
en.m.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Astr0


This IMO seems to be the most logical explanation. I've long thought that it is possible one of them had a pyschotic episode and became violent. Panicking to get out of the tent with a person who was going nuts.

That doesn't mean I rule out other possibilities.

reply to post by 4ajodster


Well, it's an interesting theory as to why they might have fled their shelter. However, I see some issues with this.

1. This doesn't explain the broken bones or internal injuries that were found, with no clear external cause.

2. I find it hard to believe that they would all react in the same way - leaving their shelter - as a result of this sort of event. Surely some would have cowered inside. People react differently to phenomena, and to different degrees.

For all of them to have fled their shelter, it seems like any threat, real or perceived, would have to affect the shelter itself. They surely knew the dangers of being exposed to the weather.

Fascinating case.

Neysa
It's funny that you posted this today.
Just yesterday I watched an indy film called "Devil's Pass" on Netflix. It's one of those found shaky footage films that seem to be all the rage.
A group of students follow the trail of the original hikers to the pass and the shakiness ensues. Anyway they managed to link the Dyatlov Pass incident with the Philadelphia Experiment and the Mothman phenomena. Lols.
I watched it because the Dyatlov mystery has always fascinated me. It's not a terrible film but it made me chuckle quite a bit.

Back on topic
I'm not buying the infra noise theory. It doesn't explain the radiation readings or the injuries.
Avalanche? Maybe...

I actually added that one to my instant list recently, though I haven't watched it yet! Fascinating case, and I don't think it's anything close to solved. Well, not by anyone that's talking, anyway!

Char-Lee

watchitburn
It could also be simply explained by an avalanche, they are good for breaking bones.

Animals like to eat eyes and lips.

And people dying of hypothermia tend to experience a feeling of being warm, which could explain some of the naked people.

Just something to think about, the simplest explanations are usually the correct ones.

I would think animals in this cold if they ate anything would eat the rest. Also their teeth marks would be evident.

This part is interesting

Transcript of an official interrogation of medical doctor B.A. Vozrojdenny by L.N. Ivanov about injuries of Nikolay Thibeaux-Brignolle.
Question: "What could have caused injuries that Nikolay Thibeaux-Brignolle suffered?"
Answer: "He could have been thrown down from a height of a grown man. He might have slipped and fell. However veer deep fracture of the skull base suggests that his injuries are similar to a victim that was dropped with a great speed and strength from a quickly moving car."

Question: "Could we assume that he was hit by a rock that was held by another man?"
Answer: "In this case we would see damaged soft tissue and we don't see that on the body"

from the autopsy link from AliceBleachWhite
www.ermaktravel.com...

Oh, interesting! I don't believe I ever saw that particular comment before, in reading about this case. The phrase, "...from the height of a grown man." is fascinating! I can't help but start making connections to some of the very odd disappearances in this country, discussed in the Missing 411 books! Clothing is often missing in many of those cases, too.

AliceBleachWhite

On mention of the pieces of metal commented on that were supposedly found at the site at the time, in addition to the mysterious lights, these led me to the following:

Soviet Aircraft 1950 - 59

Out of these aircraft, which may have been deployed and active in the area, and out of those, which had capability to drop FLARES and CHAFF countermeasures?

I was invited to an air show once, and one of the jets that performed some very low only hundreds of feet high above runway flyby maneuvers was supposedly an old Soviet Fighter jet.
Suffice to say, the whole event, that jet as well, was probably the loudest spectacle I've ever experienced. If it weren't for separation of distance, I could claim a shuttle launch as being the loudest, but, in actual decibel proximity and loudness, the air show with the old Soviet Fighter jet included was the loudest thing I've ever experienced.

Something like one of those jets making a low altitude overflight, dropping chaff, and flares (performing an exercise?), as well as triggering an avalanche due the very real physically felt volume such jets can produce could account for the confusion caused (extremely loud events can have psychological effect), the supposed metal found, the supposed spooky lights seen from a distance, as well as giving us an activator for an avalanche event would give us a mundane and seemingly plausible explanation.

If anyone finds problems with this, then, please, by all means put them forward.

Interesting idea! Such an event could certainly explain the burns on some of them. It's the broken bones that aren't explained by this, and why they all fled the tent, and didn't go back IN afterwards, that doesn't make sense. It's a very plausible factor in the case, though! It's definitely possible that multiple things converged that night, to cause everything that happened.

Astr0
*snip*

It was here I came across a victim of CIVD (not part of our expedition, a local who had fallen into water via an ice hole). Cold Induced Vaso-Dilation. You want to know what happened? this person stripped off all of their clothes (paradoxical warming) and was violent. VERY violent. A nasty side effect of CIVD is that the person suffering it feels they are absolutely in total utter control of their faculties and every one else is insane.

We had to tie this person into a sleeping bag system. That's how violent they were until warmed through.

So - aliens? no. These people suffered terrible deaths at natures hands through what I feel is a sad culmination of unrelated events that led to panic and abandoning relative safety.

In that case, was the person affected violent enough to cause the severe injuries described in this case to others? As in, more than normal strength? I haven't heard of this condition before. If they did have greater strength, such a condition is plausible. The question then would be how did the affected person become so, and how did this lead to all that happened.

Wrabbit2000
*snip*
The other odd thing? The guy with the burns. Charring on his socked foot and upside the head? How did that come about? My imagination has trouble there... I first thought maybe that supported a partial avalanche which collapsed and partially buried the tent. *snip*

I have read of burns like that from a lightning strike. Entry and exit for the electricity causes such injuries. I don't recall any weather but bad snow being mentioned, though, and never heard of lightning in conjunction with a snowstorm! Curiouser and curiouser!

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


Wow... Lightning?? That had never occurred to me. Never even crossed my mind... I wonder if it crossed anyone else's? In terms of that mixed with snow? Hmmm... I suppose it must be possible, since I've been in two "thunder snowstorms" in Missouri since I moved here. The weirdest thing to hear thunder with snow ...but nature is a weird one at times. Thunder means lightning tho, somewhere, right?

Now of course, lightning doesn't begin to touch a good number of the factors as we understand the basics here. Still.. Hmm.. That's just a very interesting angle. What would they have done if their tent had taken a lightning strike direct? Would the Russians have recognized it for what it was, after the events that left the tent in the photographed condition?

I'm not sure it plays in here? Shoot..I can't say it COULDN'T though, either?? I can only say you've actually left me boggled and stumped. That isn't an everyday thing!

reply to post by 4ajodster


It's not uncommon when people suffer from hypothermia to dress off. After you've been freezing a while you start feeling warm, sometimes very warm, and that's when people start taking their cloathes off. At that point you also typically hallucinate.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Wow... Lightning?? That had never occurred to me. Never even crossed my mind... I wonder if it crossed anyone else's? In terms of that mixed with snow? Hmmm... I suppose it must be possible, since I've been in two "thunder snowstorms" in Missouri since I moved here. The weirdest thing to hear thunder with snow ...but nature is a weird one at times. Thunder means lightning tho, somewhere, right?

Now of course, lightning doesn't begin to touch a good number of the factors as we understand the basics here. Still.. Hmm.. That's just a very interesting angle. What would they have done if their tent had taken a lightning strike direct? Would the Russians have recognized it for what it was, after the events that left the tent in the photographed condition?

I'm not sure it plays in here? Shoot..I can't say it COULDN'T though, either?? I can only say you've actually left me boggled and stumped. That isn't an everyday thing!

edit on 28-12-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

It wouldn't explain a LOT of the things that happened, but it might explain the burns like that. Saw something about that on some show or other, and it stuck with me. Weird, i know! NEVER experienced a storm like that, though! That would be something! I always loved thunderstorms (save when they spawn tornadoes!), but in snow? You aren't that far from me geographically, either. That would be weird, indeed! Here (a bit west of you), we just get snow. Not too many tornados, either, though we did have one head RIGHT through town, straight at my neighborhood, a few years back. Apparently, it hit a hill and went over us, thank God! Insulation in the driveway, and an evening under the basement stairs, was more than enough excitement for me! Tore up a lot of trees at the college, though. In snow.....trying to imagine that. It would have to be freaky!

I don't remember any mention of burns on the tent itself, BUT, they did have some sort of "furnace"/heater inside, so if it was burned, they might have assumed it happened when the tent collapsed under the snow. Still doesn't explain why they stayed away from shelter, though, instead of digging it out, and perhaps moving it a little away from the danger! THAT is the part that makes no sense.

I don't know how I missed the location of those burns before, when reading about this case. I have heard of lightning coming out of a clear sky, though, when a storm was WAY off, like on the horizon. Girl I used to work with, when we were in Florida, was struck more than once, and one time, it was like that. One rumble, and she ran for the building!

Head and a foot, though.....just sounds like lightning. Alright, he COULD HAVE burned his foot, thrashed around, and burned his head, too, but that seems unlikely in a crowded tent, problem or no problem. Something in between would surely have been burned, had that been the case!

Like the new avatar, btw!

reply to post by 4ajodster


What a fascinating case !

I've read just about everything and listened to just about everything out there since this thread came up.

A lot of things do not add up.

No evidence of an avalanche even though a lot of features point to that possibility.

I just don't buy the Yeti or Malevolent ET theories, even though some features of this drama point to those possibilities.

Personally, I think that two factors point to something exploding:

1 - The injuries suffered internally but not externally as described in the autopsies.

2 - The total state of panic that followed with everyone of them evacuating the area like plague.

Also, this picture:



could be falling debris, photographed by one of them before fleeing.

Possibility # 1: It could be a secret military flying project that went wrong and the skiers were at the wrong place at the wrong time. The military had two weeks to clean everything up before rescue went underway. I suppose the secret military found everyone dead when they arrived for clean up.

The military (not secret) that came along with the rescue efforts had geiger counters for a reason...

Possibility # 2: It could be an exploding meteor. The shockwave injured some of them that started to run as if the world was coming to an end. The rest, seeing debris falling from the sky followed suit. Also, such an explosion would surely scare them s*less for an avalanche to follow...

Both those scenarios could explain why two of them tried to climb a tree to see if danger had passed.

Both those scenarios could explain the radiation on some of the clothes.

Both those scenarios could explain some of the burns suffered by some of the victims.

Both those scenarios could explain why they fled and took too much time to return, scared of what could follow up.

Both those scenarios could explain why one of them tried to photograph "evidence".

Both those scenarios could explain why the ones in the tent tried to rip it open from inside to get tout of there as soon as possible and run to a safe distance.

Both those scenarios could be totally wrong.

JMHO.

P.S. Spooky infrasound...yeah right.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

They don't sound like burns, though you're right that ligtning could enter the head and cause a burn there and leave the foot and cause a burn there. But that's not what the report says:

www.ermaktravel.com...

the left foot had burnt socks (marked by 13). No footwear.

- hair are burned on the right side of the head

It says the socks are burnt. It doesn't say the foot is. Likewise, it says the hair is burnt, it doesn't say the head or the skin under it is. Are those the burn references you were looking at?

reply to post by SonoftheSun


Interesting photo. Maybe it's of the orbs or lights they were speaking of
as the camp near by reported.
And I agree that lightening would have shown different wounds.
If they were sitting in there close to the fire..."sitting" the socked foot
& face could have been the same plane of distance (hope I make sense)
from the fire. So if there were a huge flare up I could easily see a sock
getting burned as well as hair.
This is a fascinating story & S&F OP! This is me first time hearing this mystery.
I LOVE this kind of stuff!

Cheers
Ektar

reply to post by SonoftheSun


Thanks for finding that picture.
It looks like perhaps a lantern or light orb of some kind , but why would he take a picture of the tent wall if it was a lantern?

reply to post by bluemooone2


Very curious picture, isn't it?

I wish someone could somehow re-focus what was actually photographed. I'm willing to bet that it would perhaps give some answers. Is it an orb like other campers have mentioned or a missile/rocket that exploded and it's fiery falling debris, or just a lantern ?

That pic remains a mystery, like the whole darn thing. I just don't buy the infrasound theory, even if it's a plausible theory like all else.

We'll probably never know.

Not an orb,but a demonstration of "bokeh",or what a lens does to a point source of light or other part of an image with high contrast when it's out of focus......

en.wikipedia.org...

In a nutshell,an expert can look at the bokeh and tell you if it's a cheap or an expensive lens.

Or it could just be our old friend lens flare.