Homebuilt VTOL/UFO: ATS-We Can Do This! Bring Your Ideas

Many years I have been interested in flight, not just any flight
but the mysterious VTOL concept.

I have built many a RC plane.. and Testee model rockets
as I am sure many ATS members interested in this concept have.

Long hours I have spent watching birds in flight trying to concept
their secret to spontaneously hover (not really hover but extremely
close when just about landing)

Many an hour have I spent reviewing VTOL and UFO videos
reading many a theory on this concept and spent much research
trying to understand the ancient Vimina's story.

I have followed Paul Moller and his flying car concept since he introduced his
circular configuration and have followed my personal hero, Burt Rutan since
his early days with his "E-Z" flier. (Valkyrie)

We ALL want a VTOL (vertical take off & landing) - life would be easier
and much more fun, to say the least.. ..so about 8 years ago I started building my
own concept of the VTOL/UFO.

My interest is NOT in the ability to fly in outer space, just simply a better
and safer mode of transportation.


This is a pic of different aero-designs I have been working from..


I believe this concept can be achieved without computer control, using
simple mechanical applications.

Redesigning the propeller for maximium output in a torsional tornado effect
would, I believe, be tremendously effective!

This is an experiment I have been working on with a 'Blended Body" concept
of my own design, which seems to work theoretically.
The vehichle concept of my design uses a 'cupped-wing' configuration that
induces the Coanda/Ground Cushion Effect (like a bird landing) that seems
to "float' the plane to the ground in glider formation instead of dropping
like a dead weight, essentially providing safe landings incase of engine
failure.


This is a pic of my personal design; first a drawing and then a prototype:

From the 'nose' to the 'tail' the vehichle's is an "S" with a wing configuration
which is cupped to produce 'Ground Cushion/Coanda effect'.
The 'holes' in the wings are for the two torsional engines that does away with a need
for runways essentially acting like a helicopter but with double the speed.

These experiments with my glider concept, I readily admit have only been done indoors,
so I have no conclusion what this concept as a glider would do in cross winds but I do
assume with a working engine, this would be rectified.

So I bring this VTOL/UFO idea to my fellow ATS members as I believe that many here
whom have an interest in aeroplanes and personal UFO's, hoping between us we might
just stumble upon a solution in practicality.

C'mon enthusiasts, lets brain storm.. ..and just maybe...just maybe we might
crack an unorthodox issue in the history of man's personal flight endeavors!

The bottom of the pic shows the Ground Cushion/Coanda design
(which of course, is my own concept)


The 'front' flat part that wraps around the nose works at stall speeds
creating the same effect as a 'Canard' does.

The "S" cupped blended wing design holds air under it to create
the 'Coanda' effect giving it a 'Ground Cushion' control the closer it gets to landing
which has the effect of a kite, almost stopping it to a hover.

The external wings tips are slightly concave dipping downwards to again
control air underneath essentially keeping it afloat without need of an engine.

...and yes, I cheated the build process by using a hollowed out 'Helicopter' body
saving myself oodles of time!

Bring your ideas ATS members - we may just stumble upon a successive idea.

P.S. - my design is a 'one seater' (for just me) so I redesigned the sitting-flight
control apparatus position as that in the same idea of a snow mobile or
motorcycle (aerileon pedals in back) so the pilot has many different comfortable
seating positions - the handle bar steering wheel design works the same as a motorcycle..
Turning one 'grip' for speed control and the other for air brake flaps

Nice thread and pics .

I have had some experience building a vtol craft . In fact with 5 hp Futuba engine , I was able to lift 85 kg .
Of course the wing configuration wasn't " standart " .
My conclusion was that the available engine power was still not sufficiently powerfull enough to build a true vtol craft .

My vtol project has come to an end back in 2005 due to lack of funding . I sometimes still look for a powerfull enough engine which can accomplish the task ..

This is because I believe that the engine power is prerequisite for lifting the weight in the first place .

Your designs are eye catchy and sleek . I would like to see it progress indeed .

Good luck

23432
Nice thread and pics .
Good luck

Thank you 23..
Never give up on your dreams, sometimes when the funds or tech
isn't available, you just have to improvise.

I live in the area of the famous air ace Billy Bishop and thinking about
what he flew, what those 'fliers' were built from in WW1, I once thought of
building this bird to the requirements of an Ultralight only using salvaged
materials from Windsurfers..lol
(the thoughts people think up trying to make dreams come true!)

I understand your issue for lift requirements, so after redesigning the
basic airplane, I thought maybe it best to induce a different type of
propulsion strength using an updated propeller, so I have been experimenting
with this design..


The basic idea is a conical shape with blades attached inside the drum
spun creating a tornado vortex force with an atomizer in the exit end
utilizing the thrust vectoring system.

Spinning the conical drums can be done with either belt or chain.

Thank you for your interest

Be well

reply to post by HumAnnunaki


Good on you HumAnnunaki.....this is a very interesting project that you have going on here...

with all the great and cheap rc stuff that is available off the shelf these days ...I'm sure that you will succeed with this....as in a working model..

I have seen a dead stuffed cat with an electric motor and propeller mounted on each paw flying....look for flying cat on U tube....

Best of luck with this...

tri-lobe-1

I have seen a dead stuffed cat with an electric motor and propeller mounted on each paw flying....look for flying cat on U tube....

Best of luck with this...

Tri-lobe;

Thank you for your interest.

Many years I have looked at your 'Avatar' with much interest
and only recently through someone else's thread that I came across
your avatar and after years of seeing this 'device' - that I saw in a
different light that I believe could be extremely useful in the VTOL world!

Do you know the true history of your avatar device..?

My thought is we have been looking at it all wrong...

Picture it upside down instead of it sitting on display on a table top
giving it the appearance of a candle holder -

I see it upside spinning creating a vortex within an enclosure.
Essentially sitting in the middle of a VTOL body acting as a
helicopter system.

I wonder if the wide blades with the cupped over tips create
a vortex that pushes against the top of the enclosure creating lift
by forcing air up, then back down..?

Interesting device, if theory proves true

I may owe your avatar a huge thanks in the future!

reply to post by HumAnnunaki


it is interesting and it does behave differently when spinning in water...depending on whether pointing up or down...

when the lobes are pointing down and spinning in water.....it sucks like a demon and I have to fight it to keep it off the bottom of the bath tub [ my test tank ]....

I have a couple of fibreglass shells gathering dust....if you are interested...I can mail one to you at no cost.....for me the cost of postage would be worth your opinion....pm me if interested....

I like people that can make things...

Wouldn't it make more sense to use long blades made of a strong semi ridged material shaped somewhat like a horseshoe and allowed to droop slightly beneath the wings in a manner similar to flower petals and only achieve their solidest state during use?

I have never been impressed with some of the V-Stol aircraft that have flown past and present to include the Osprey as far as being combat survival. The Harrier was cool as far as less moving parts but if you had a flame out at hover it became a rather large metal brick in free fall..

I have always thought a counter rotating blade system like some of the single mast duel rotor systems on some current and past helicopters would be the way to go and the whole lift system could be embedded inside the fuselage.. Then reality sits in and you realize that when the tip path plane of the rotors are change you would be changing the fuselage angle also and the whole thing becomes on big drag problem as the angle of the dangle increases... So then you are back with dual or more power systems for lift and the possibility of a single power failure at a critical time causing a loss of the machine. If you make a wing for slow flight or lifting body then it becomes very inefficient at higher speeds... That is one reason for the swing wing aircraft designs and all the lifting devices (leading edge slats and flaps) that modern fast movers have.

The electric lifting body made out of Balsa and some lite gauge wire is/was really neat; no doubt you have seen a demo..

Ok if I were going to try to build something today the machine would be of ridged design with an area sufficient for sealed compartments or bladder bags for helium. Couple of ways to go here in that the helium could be compressed and released into the chambers/bladders when flight was wanted or.....
the machine could weigh ALMOST nothing when empty with bladders full... When a pilot or passenger is added most of the power would be used to lift them and not the craft.. Edgar Rice Burroughs had something like I speak of in his long ago Martian Series with John Carter... I always wanted one of those machines!

In his flying machines the lift was increase by ? the seventh ray or gas (give me a break it has been over 50 years) and the craft was steered by rudder and elevator just like a normal aircraft but you could reverse the prop or feather it and maintain station if I remember right? Many a battle was fought from the deck of the fliers which came in all sizes...

The movie John Carter did no justice to Edgar's creations or the books.

Hi Hum,

Excellent thread, This has got me thinking, and I'm trying to imagine a jet engine turned inside out....I'll try and explain ( but my understanding of how a jet engine works may be wrong, so don't laugh ) So am I right in thinking a jet engine works by a propeller (turbine) spinning creating a pressure in a cavity where by fuel is added and ignited to increase that pressure to drive another propeller (turbine) on the same shaft as the first that gives propulsion through it as the process perpetuates itself ?.

So if we take a Frisbee and on the outer edge have a spinning ring with vanes (that would act as a turbine) on the outside edge then coming inward have a small cavity in which fuel would be added and burnt to create pressure on inner (turbine) vanes....which would provide thrust into the inner of the frisbee which would have to escape downward from the center pushing the frisbee upward.

So I would not be looking at making one large frisbee, more a craft with several of these small frisbee jet engines underneath that could be used to control the direction of the craft.

I'm probably miles off the mark in my thinking, but it was good to participate in.

tri-lobe-1
I have a couple of fibreglass shells gathering dust....if you are interested...I can mail one to you at no cost.....for me the cost of postage would be worth your opinion....pm me if interested....

I like people that can make things...

Vey generous offer (one I shall take) so I thank you with
sincere gratitude!!!

If I find any useful output for the object, most definately -
I will post it here!!!
(still trying to figure out how to make movies so I can show
my working glider model in flight)

I find the most enjoyment from life when people work together
creating something useful to society.. and who knows, maybe
not you or I - but another member whom investigates this thread
may just incorporate these ideas with their own to discover a true VTOL vehicle!

The members whom have replied to this thread have shown intelligence
and the wish to succeed.. this is what it takes.

The Wright brothers weren't the first to build an airplane, but they were the
first to work together harmoniously without discouragement until they proved
a working model.

I could see this happen here from the intelligence already shown.

Be well tri-lobe

@Thorneblood -

Welcome, that was an idea I thought of years ago, but my
mind saw them able to tilt for directional control, and not
being able to create a working pivot that didn't loose thrust
had me stifled.

Looking into 'ducted fan' engines, that's the model my
engine idea came from - that and I believe the secret
to nature holds the answer to most questions, I tried
to design an engine working on the premis of a tornado

@727Sky -

Welcome, and I must agree - military or other wise VTOL's
have yet to prove anything worthy or streamlined
(that we know of) ..worthy of acceptance.

Seems what we've seen so far causes too much drag loosing
the ability for a high speed cruising altitude.

Even Moller's flying car isn't that exciting to look at with those
bulky engines.
He has the 4 engines tilted at the same angle which makes it unstable
during lift and hover.
He could over come this by having the rear engines facing the front engines
with all 4 directed to a central position below the vehicle until it reached sufficient
height to direct the engines into flight mode.

Remember the early days (NASA) Northrops 'lifting bodies'..?
They seemed to float so my design was created from their beginnings and as you
mentioned, I too had the idea of using helium to lighten the vehicle's weight.
My thought is to fill all empty voids with helium; i.e: carbon fibre tubular frame,
empty wing cavities, tail fuselage, front nose cone.

I have also created models designed on the Horton brothers "229" doing away
with tail and rudder section for a more drag-less flight increasing speed.

Thank you for the ideas

@Ken -

Welcome -

The circular shape is what seems to be an effective way for flight, although I
see an effective high speed vehicle more of an elyptical shape for cruising
altitudes.
The circular shape is excellent for hovering, which is where I used the concave wing idea,
borrowing from that experience.

My idea was to use conventional mechanics instead of computer control so
this could be a simple homebuilt project so my idea was to lessen the
amount of engines to a simple design as turbines have many internal
mechanism's making it hard to work on for the average homebuilt person.

I also think the less moving parts, the less breakdown, but I agree with you
that everything should be contained within the body housing to create
a truly fuel efficient vehicle
I visualize the 2 wing lifting engines changing directional thrust by simple
hand operated lever controlled vents, opening and closing duct cavities!?!

I may be dreaming, my idea is to create a "Volkswagen"
A cheap reliable vehicle all could afford and not worry about having to discard
for a new one every 10 years.
One can dream right

Be well all - thanks for the brainstorming and the mature intelligence!

I post this quote to those who have replied to this thread, as they truly
understand it's meaning!

"Between us we may hold the answers, if not for confrontation."

I had a thought on the weight of an engine and trying to reduce it, what about a Diesel Generator and Electric Motors to drive propellors?

And the other thought was the inventor Dyson - I dont follow his inventions other than TV adverts which are notoriously innacurate (adverts in general)....but he uses lots of smaller motors to create these little cyclones added together they improve overall efficiency and suction of just one huge vacuum.

What if there were a way to use lots of smaller engines to create more thrust and if you imagine LED lights, you could 'lose' af few and yet still operate sufficiently until you land.

IamSirDrinksalot
And the other thought was the inventor Dyson - I dont follow his inventions other than TV adverts which are notoriously innacurate (adverts in general)....but he uses lots of smaller motors to create these little cyclones added together they improve overall efficiency and suction of just one huge vacuum.

What if there were a way to use lots of smaller engines to create more thrust and if you imagine LED lights, you could 'lose' af few and yet still operate sufficiently until you land.

Welcome sir I AM -

It seems those whom are attracted to this thread are like minded individuals.

Strange you should bring up Dyson.
When he first introduced his vacuum, I thought it the perfect tornado induced engine.
..and when he introduced the circular induction fan.. well history creased my forehead.

Could it be our knowledge is going back in time..?

I say this because Dyson's fan reminded me of an ancient gold artifact rumored to be of Mayan history.
Many golden artifacts resembling airplanes were passed of as 'insects' although one individual recreated
one artifact and flew it via R/C.
I believe Von Danikken was involved in this and it was shown on Ancient Aliens..?

There was a 'plane' in that collection that didn't receive any attention because of it's peculiar design.
It had circles lined against the fore front leading edges to the wings.. and immediately when seeing
Dyson's circular induction fan, I wondered if this was the meaning to the strange Mayan golden plane design..?

It made me curious as to what effect this had on lift and cross winds..
..and if it rectified these situations..?
Be well
Thank you for reminding me

REAL UFO IDEAS?

Well its probably off topic..but here are a few conclusions of mine.
Most close up UFO reports seem to state that UFO's knock out radios and other electrical devises..this suggests a very strong magnetic force field. They also are said to give off lots of static electricity. So Im thinking electro magnetic propulsion.

Also its already been proven you can levitate anything, including a frog, if you have a powerful enough magnet...but to power a magnetic propulsion system, powerful enough to levitate and fly an air craft, your going to need some incredible power source, which evidently has no visible exhaust or vapor trail etc.

So I'm thinking UFO's have a magnetic propulsion system, with an incredibly energetic, self contained, power source...
The only thing that might come close is some type of nuclear powered engine. It might also explain why some UFO reports state that UFO's suck up large volumes of water. You would need water to cool a reactor.

A nuclear powered UFO is quite possibly the reason that the governments in the know have made everyone believe its aliens..because how many people would be happy to know nuclear powered aircraft are zipping overhead.
That's my best guess.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


Welcome BlackHat -

I tend to agree the Government is or has experimented with Nuclear fusion
as a propulsion device as unsafe as it may seem.

As far as UFO's are understood in my brain, I believe the propulsion method
was copied from Tesla's "Flying Stovepipe" using the vehicle designed discovered
by Victor Schomberg (captured Nazi scientist - Operation PaperClip)

Combining the two gives us what we see in the view of these two being
what we understand as a UFO.

Be well

nice design. how are you going to power it? with a Raspberry pi?

This may be a option maybe! anyway keep us posted. what kind of motors are you going to use? what is the current weight?

SkipperJohn
nice design. how are you going to power it? with a Raspberry pi?
what kind of motors are you going to use? what is the current weight?

Welcome Skipper -

The topics everyone including your own are truly divulging
my interest and uncommonly, I have used parts of everyone's
knowledge in my current design

This is how I envision a working full scale model:


My thought is to use the ducted fans for lifting and hovering,
and if situated on a pivot - the angled thrust could be used for low
altitude flight while using the pulse jet for transitional flight
from hover to high speed flight.. or for just short burst as
the model currently 'floats' with the Coanda effect.

There is a small tear drop cup on the bottom fuselage
to induce air back up under the wing for additional lift.

Thank you for the interest.

Be well.

Sorry Skipper -

I missed answering your question about the miniature model's weight.

The length of the fuselage is around 13 inches long and 2 inches wide at the cockpit
(which is thin plastic) and the wing span from tip to tip is 21 inches.
(the wings are made of corregated Styrofoam board) so at the moment
with no engines or controls, the bird weighs under 1 pound as I only
have an ordinary bathroom scale and it doesn't register any weight
therefore it is under a pound - if I was to guess (by holding it)
I would say no more than 7 or 8 ounces.

The Helicopter fuselage was purchased at a local hobby store
for $6 dollars and the local dollar store supplied the Styrofoam
board for $1 dollar - all held together by hot-glue-gun adhesive.
(less than $10 bucks)

Originally, I used two turbine engines I salvaged from two
identical hand held hair dryers - worked exceptionally well
although the engines are too big for the model with too
much thrust and no real way to control speeds other than
slow - medium - fast.

It would probably surprise everyone to know the artist picture
of my plane is actually a picture of a bird underneath the sketch. lol

If I could strip off the photo/paint shop detail, you would see
the bird underneath is a Sea Gull

After building models and sketching conceptions for years,
I cheated using the Helicopter body to save build time and
the same idea with the sketch.. ..made it easier to get the
correct angles.

Also, this 'model', with the two holes in the wings and the hole
at the top of the Helicopter engine bay - it's not effected during
it's gliding sequences.. ..so the cupped wing idea seems to
work regardless of the holes..(food for thought)

Great ideas coming out from those participating.

(would love to see someone else's models or even someone copy
this prototype coupled with their own ideas.. or ideas ventured
from the members involved)

Be well all