Intelligent Design is a self evident truth

reply to post by neoholographic


its a hell of a pity that we dont see self evident intelligence in governments on this planet, which is where we need it most as they make our decisions for us... hmm how intelligent is that I wonder???

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Then you do not understand the Big Bang which does not state that the singularity had finite matter, it contained infinite matter and space and finite time.

What you state here is all wrong. The singularity is all finite to its rim; The singularity is still a compressed energy mass which is expanding as we speak. It can not be infinite in any way. I dont really think you know what the singularity is.

The infinite is a absolute constant. it wont have any finite time. Only the singularity can have finite time because, it is all finite. It can not have anything that is infinite within it. What would that be?????

The singularity is formed by the infinite. But it dosent make it infinite in any way as long as it is expanding back to what it used to be. You probably wouldnt know what that would be. Because i dont think you grasp this at all. just my two cents.

spy66
What you state here is all wrong. The singularity is all finite to its rim; The singularity is still a compressed energy mass which is expanding as we speak. It can not be infinite in any way. I dont really think you know what the singularity is.

The infinite is a absolute constant. it wont have any finite time. Only the singularity can have finite time because, it is all finite. It can not have anything that is infinite within it. What would that be?????

The singularity is formed by the infinite. But it dosent make it infinite in any way as long as it is expanding back to what it used to be. You probably wouldnt know what that would be. Because i dont think you grasp this at all

You are taking an anthropomorphized approach.

The singularity had no 'outside' so there was nothing for it to expand 'back to what it used to be'. It only continues to expand and as it does space expands with it. Space is getting larger from the 'inside', not into an external medium.

Your views on space and distance are rather simplistic and do not fit with the currently understood philosophy on the singularity.

This paper explains it rather lucidly.

In the old picture, this is an easy question to answer theoretically (though not necessarily in practice!). Just get yourself a giant tape measure and clip it to a faraway galaxy, then come back to our galaxy and hold on tight. As the galaxy moves away, it will pull on the tape measure, and you will easily be able to read off the distance as the tape measure unwinds... one billion light-years, one and half billion light-years, two billion light-years, etc.

In our new picture of the universe, however, with the raisins and the dough, the tape measure will not unwind at all as the universe expands, because the galaxies are not actually moving with respect to each other! Instead, it will read one billion light-years the whole time. You could be perfectly justified in saying that the distance between the galaxies has not changed as time goes on. When you bring the tape measure back in, however, you will notice something unusual; due to the stretching of space, your tape measure will have stretched as well, and if you compare it to an identical tape measure which you had sitting in your pocket the entire time, you will see that all the tick marks on it are twice as far apart as they used to be. Using the tape measure from your pocket as a reference, you would now say that the galaxy is two billion light-years away, even though the first tape measure said it was one billion light-years away. As you can see, the concept of "distance" in this new picture of the universe is somewhat more complicated than in the old picture! It is unclear whether the universe as a whole is really "expanding" - all that we really measure is a stretching of the space between each pair of galaxies. (Note that we might have to have an "imaginary" tape measure whose atoms aren't actually being held together by intermolecular forces in order for the scenario described above to actually take place as described.) source

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Your views on space and distance are rather simplistic and do not fit with the currently understood philosophy on the singularity.

I have not mentioned distance or to much about sapce. So i dont know why you can Call my view simplistic.

Your view on what the singularity is still wrong, and what every Source you read it from is wrong. Or you dont grasp Your own Source.

I do agree that the medium of Space between galaxies and stars and so on are expanding, and creating a greater distance between galaxies and stars.
But that medium of space is still a part of the finite singuilarity. If it was infinite like you say; What makes that medium of Space expand. There is got to be less pressure somewhere to make the medium of Space expand. But Your Sourse problably dont cover that part of the problem?

reply to post by spy66



Simply put - the Singularity has boundary, the Event Horizon, whilst outside is the boundless infinite space time continuum.

Inside the EH, remains to be seen or unseen, depending on how you look at it.

Edit:

Not a real fan of Wiki but here's an interesting article on Particle Horizon which tied to what you were talking about:

Particle horizon of the observable universe

Main article: Cosmological horizon

The particle horizon of the observable universe is the boundary that represents the maximum distance at which events can currently be observed. For events beyond that distance, light has not had time to reach our location, even if it were emitted at the time the universe began. How the particle horizon changes with time depends on the nature of the expansion of the universe. If the expansion has certain characteristics, there are parts of the universe that will never be observable, no matter how long the observer waits for light from those regions to arrive. The boundary past which events cannot ever be observed is an event horizon, and it represents the maximum extent of the particle horizon...

en.wikipedia.org...

edmc^2
reply to post by spy66

 

Simply put - the Singularity has boundary, the Event Horizon, whilst outside is the boundless infinite space time continuum.

Inside the EH, remains to be seen or unseen, depending on how you look at it.

I have a feeling that People think that the singularity just produced galaxies, planets and stars. It seams like they think that the medium that makes up the Space beteen them were always there. Since they think it is infinite.

spy66

edmc^2
reply to post by spy66

 

Simply put - the Singularity has boundary, the Event Horizon, whilst outside is the boundless infinite space time continuum.

Inside the EH, remains to be seen or unseen, depending on how you look at it.

I have a feeling that People think that the singularity just produced galaxies, planets and stars. It seams like they think that the medium that makes up the Space beteen them were always there. Since they think it is infinite.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

Yeah, I have that feeling too but what they don't get is that what's outside of the Singularity is what produced it and by extension, produced the physical universe and all that's in it.

And like you said - for the universe to expand, "There is got to be less pressure somewhere to make the medium of Space expand" or as I put it, infinite space-time continuum (outside the EH). Otherwise the pressure outside it will prevent it from further expansion.

spy66
I have not mentioned distance or to much about sapce. So i dont know why you can Call my view simplistic.

You claimed that space was expanding into something and therefore mentioned the topic.

Your view on what the singularity is still wrong, and what every Source you read it from is wrong. Or you dont grasp Your own Source.

It is not 'my view', it is the view of the sources I quoted so you obviously do not understand that the current theory is that space is infinite, matter is infinite and only has a time finite beginning.

I do agree that the medium of Space between galaxies and stars and so on are expanding, and creating a greater distance between galaxies and stars.
But that medium of space is still a part of the finite singuilarity. If it was infinite like you say; What makes that medium of Space expand. There is got to be less pressure somewhere to make the medium of Space expand. But Your Sourse problably dont cover that part of the problem?

By asking if there is an external 'pressure' you are showing that you do not understand cosmological expansion. It is not about space expanding against an external force, it is expanding from a central point outwards. Additionally, the singularity has to be infinite due to the universe being infinite. A finite singularity cannot produce infinite mass and energy.

spy66
I have a feeling that People think that the singularity just produced galaxies, planets and stars. It seams like they think that the medium that makes up the Space beteen them were always there. Since they think it is infinite.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

Not really, only those who slept their way through 8th grade science class. Those of us that paid attention know that after the initial expansion of the is singularity, the only thing produced was hydrogen. Then between 10 seconds and 20 minutes after expansion, the process of nucleosynthesis began which created helium isotope He4 and small amounts of deuterium, some helium He3 and very small amounts of lithium. These were the stable isotopes. There were also a couple of unstable isotopes that emerged at this point such as tritium or H3 a hydrogen isotope and beryllium 7, both of which decayed into He3 and Lithium7 respectively. Everything heavier came much later after the first stars exploded causing stellar nucleosynthesis. Galaxies and planets came along a bit after that. I also think that the is some confusion here as to what is finite and what is infinite. In regards to time, the point of reference is a human one. We think about time in finite terms because our lives are finite, we need to ascribe dates to everything to give it scale. While it may appear as though time is finite because we only count back to the Big Bang, that doesn't mean that time itself is finite.not knowing what happened prior to the expansion of the singularity leaves us without context to compare to something the human mind can grasp. A time and space are part and parcel of each others existence, space can not be infinite while time remains finite. It is a massive contradiction with no reconciliation.

reply to post by peter vlar


You remember what was taught to you. That makes you a person with good memory, but not a genius.

'Veda' has a clear account of origin of the Universe, and 'Veda' is a very old book.

The 'big bang' theory has origin in 'Veda', an ancient Sanskrit book.

There is no way science can find the origin of the Universe, as there is no direct observations. You can say that telescopes can find it. But unfortunately the space out there is not as transparent as people believe, and light waves do get distorted when travelling large distances.

GargIndia
'Veda' has a clear account of origin of the Universe

Looked it up and I did not see anything clear about the information I found.

Maybe you have a clearer explanation?

reply to post by daskakik


Where did you look?

reply to post by GargIndia

I looked for information online about about that very old book.

reply to post by daskakik

Check out Advaita Vedanta - it means one without a second.
en.wikipedia.org...
There are many speaking the message of non duality on youtube - it is the same message that is at the root of all religions.

reply to post by daskakik


Please read at the following link:

www.vedmandir.com...

You may leave any questions at this website and will be responded through email.

reply to post by GargIndia

Gave them a quick look and they seem to be saying the same thing as the information I found on my own and there is nothing clear as far as the origin of the Universe.

I mean, it is in simple terms but it is just as ambiguous as any other creation myth.

Tony Parsons points toward Advaita in this talk.

Itisnowagain
reply to post by daskakik

 

Check out Advaita Vedanta - it means one without a second.
en.wikipedia.org...
There are many speaking the message of non duality on youtube - it is the same message that is at the root of all religions.

edit on 9-1-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I have to tell you politely that there are many philosophies arising out of India that do not conform to 'Veda'.

You are mistaken that "all religions speak non duality".

Veda's teachings are based on 'Traitwad' or three entities that are eternal.

GargIndia
You are mistaken that "all religions speak non duality".

The root of religion and everything is non duality.
All arises out of the non conceptual.
There is only the ONE.

reply to post by daskakik


There is a lot of information on that website in question/answers and you should use the search function to get more out of it.

There is more that is not on that website. However you can always ask questions.

Hope you get what you are looking for.