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Intelligent Design is a self evident truth

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posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 06:27 PM
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Krazysh0t
reply to post by begoodbees
 


This is TERRIBLE reasoning. We have PLENTY of fossils showing evolution in action. Just because we cannot witness it firsthand doesn't mean we cannot collect the evidence for it and substantiate its veracity other ways.

You know we can prove criminals commit crimes without video evidence of them doing it too right?


You see fossils and make assumptions on how the came about. There is a big difference between assuming and knowing. by your logic if I find 100 porche 911's from different years that is evidence that they have evolved on their own from simple to complex instead of being made the way they are/were.


www.roadandtrack.com...

Also as I have already stated, science is about observation and experimentation not speculation and assumption.
edit on 5-1-2014 by begoodbees because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 06:34 PM
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EnPassant

begoodbees
At some point you just have to realize that some people are incapable of intelligent thought and logical deduction. It is impossible for some people to deny a lifetime of indoctrination. I think pride plays a role in this as well as fear of being ridiculed by others.

This is the case with most religious people.

edit on 5-1-2014 by begoodbees because: (no reason given)


Many people don't believe in God because they are indoctrinated. This is a false view of religion. Many people believe for far more complex and substantial reasons than this.
edit on 5-1-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)


I am referring to people being indoctrinated with evolution. These people like most religious people will hold the belief long after it is proven false, which in this case was decades ago.
edit on 5-1-2014 by begoodbees because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 06:36 PM
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SuperFrog

begoodbees
reply to post by SuperFrog
 

Evolution is a process that cannot ever be observed. Old bones are not a process. I stand by my statements. It has not and cannot be observed. I could go to a junk yard and find the same kind of "proof" that cars evolved.

Nothing even remotely close to evolution can be reproduced by scientific experiment so what you are left with is a belief in something unseen, or in other words faith. The scientific method has been thrown out the window in order to protect this new secular religion.

The scientific method was developed in order to separate science from mysticism and religion. If evolution were science it would have to fit the scientific method which it clearly does not.


That is just empty talk and straw holding with dying grip...

If you read this topic, you would find load of evidence of evolution that was observed in labs. For example, E.coli long-term evolution (50,000 generations) - Overview of the E.coli long-term evolution experiment.

I am glad you got at least part of it correct, bones are not itself example of evolution, but bones of many species through time are teaching us of life progress and evolution of species. For example, tetrapods evolution shown here: The origin of tetrapods. It is interesting, that in fossils there are no tetrapods for a long time, even life flourished, then we saw first primitive examples and later more complex. See, people who study evolution see clear evidence how species have progress, every day there is more evidence to support what we all already know, and I am sure that your ignorant statement like this is just sign of frustration, as even church is turning back on ID and it is focusing on 'souls'. We already know how is that going to end as well, don't we?

Even with ignorance like this, let's try to reason for second. If there was no evolution, how do you explain all bones and fossils on earth. (we are using those fossils on daily bases in huge amounts, you know, fossil fuel) And when did dinosaurs live, how long ago, and how old is earth. Care to prove science wrong, start by answering those simple questions.
edit on 5-1-2014 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)


You confuse evolution with variation. Variation is everywhere and does not need to be proven. All of that ecoli is still ecoli.

Since fossils only form is certain conditions it is likely that without the global flood (that was recorded in every ancient civilization, not just the bible) most of the fossils would not have formed at all.

I believe it is you who are frustrated by the facts because you are the one reverting to insults.

There is evidence all over the world that dinosaurs lived at the same time as man (paintings, carvings writings). Of course, with your lack of knowledge you do not know this. All you know is on side of the story. I know both sides.

I'll say it again, evolution is not science, it cannot be observed or reproduced through experimentation. Science is about provable things not speculation. Getting dirt to come alive to begin with, now that is a whole other topic.
edit on 5-1-2014 by begoodbees because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by begoodbees
 


well, if it's all just the same E. Coli what do you think would happen if they switched environments? The strain that evolved to feed off of a new source of nutrition would starve in the traditional environment just as quickly as the original strain used would die off in the environment better suited for the newly emerged version. You're arguing semantics now and I'm not sure if that's a step up or step down from the strawman arguments littered throughout this thread. Either way its an intellectually dishonest approach. Not accepting reality is not the same as reality not existing.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 06:48 PM
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begoodbees

EnPassant

begoodbees
At some point you just have to realize that some people are incapable of intelligent thought and logical deduction. It is impossible for some people to deny a lifetime of indoctrination. I think pride plays a role in this as well as fear of being ridiculed by others.

This is the case with most religious people.

edit on 5-1-2014 by begoodbees because: (no reason given)


Many people don't believe in God because they are indoctrinated. This is a false view of religion. Many people believe for far more complex and substantial reasons than this.
edit on 5-1-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)


I am referring to people being indoctrinated with evolution. These people like most religious people will hold the belief long after it is proven false, which in this case was decades ago.
edit on 5-1-2014 by begoodbees because: (no reason given)


Really? could you link to some peer reviewed work and/or demonstrate some sort of experiment that supports the thesis that evolution was proven incorrect decades ago?



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 06:51 PM
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peter vlar
reply to post by begoodbees
 


well, if it's all just the same E. Coli what do you think would happen if they switched environments? The strain that evolved to feed off of a new source of nutrition would starve in the traditional environment just as quickly as the original strain used would die off in the environment better suited for the newly emerged version. You're arguing semantics now and I'm not sure if that's a step up or step down from the strawman arguments littered throughout this thread. Either way its an intellectually dishonest approach. Not accepting reality is not the same as reality not existing.


I didn't say the same, I said it is all still ecoli, meaning the same species, meaning no evolution. variation is everywhere and does not need proving nor is it in any way evidence or proof of evolution.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 06:53 PM
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peter vlar

begoodbees

EnPassant

begoodbees
At some point you just have to realize that some people are incapable of intelligent thought and logical deduction. It is impossible for some people to deny a lifetime of indoctrination. I think pride plays a role in this as well as fear of being ridiculed by others.

This is the case with most religious people.

edit on 5-1-2014 by begoodbees because: (no reason given)


Many people don't believe in God because they are indoctrinated. This is a false view of religion. Many people believe for far more complex and substantial reasons than this.
edit on 5-1-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)


I am referring to people being indoctrinated with evolution. These people like most religious people will hold the belief long after it is proven false, which in this case was decades ago.
edit on 5-1-2014 by begoodbees because: (no reason given)


Really? could you link to some peer reviewed work and/or demonstrate some sort of experiment that supports the thesis that evolution was proven incorrect decades ago?


Yes, it is the discovery of dna which blew the whole theory out the window but the indoctrinated religious zealots still cling onto it for dear life.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:06 PM
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begoodbees


Since fossils only form is certain conditions it is likely that without the global flood (that was recorded in every ancient civilization, not just the bible) most of the fossils would not have formed at all.


yes, many civilizations discuss large flood events. there is however zero evidence of one single global flood that wiped out all life minus a few lucky folks in their boat. There were many large scale flood events that certainly inundated low lying and coastal areas causing a lot of devastation at the end of the last glacial maximum. If you go to Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian sites you will find evidence of several large floods in the geological record. The black sea we know today is the result of a very large flood event. None of these localized flood events however are evidence of what you are claiming.



There is evidence all over the world that dinosaurs lived at the same time as man (paintings, carvings writings). Of course, with your lack of knowledge you do not know this. All you know is on side of the story. I know both sides.


so evolution is less likely than man being 6000 years old and living with dinosaurs? but science is crazy? please, post links to your evidence of man and dinosaurs living side by side so I can address each case properly instead of issuing a blanket statement.


I'll say it again, evolution is not science, it cannot be observed or reproduced through experimentation. Science is about provable things not speculation. Getting dirt to come alive to begin with, now that is a whole other topic


and once again you rally on about what science is while simultaneously demonstrating that you don't understand it by confusing abiogenesis with evolution. Getting dirt to come alive is not part of a single accepted hypothesis in this day and age. the only place that claims to make anything living from dirt is in Genesis.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:09 PM
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begoodbees

peter vlar

begoodbees

EnPassant

begoodbees
At some point you just have to realize that some people are incapable of intelligent thought and logical deduction. It is impossible for some people to deny a lifetime of indoctrination. I think pride plays a role in this as well as fear of being ridiculed by others.

This is the case with most religious people.

edit on 5-1-2014 by begoodbees because: (no reason given)


Many people don't believe in God because they are indoctrinated. This is a false view of religion. Many people believe for far more complex and substantial reasons than this.
edit on 5-1-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)


I am referring to people being indoctrinated with evolution. These people like most religious people will hold the belief long after it is proven false, which in this case was decades ago.
edit on 5-1-2014 by begoodbees because: (no reason given)


Really? could you link to some peer reviewed work and/or demonstrate some sort of experiment that supports the thesis that evolution was proven incorrect decades ago?


Yes, it is the discovery of dna which blew the whole theory out the window but the indoctrinated religious zealots still cling onto it for dear life.



please describe how discovery of the double helix "blew away" evolutionary theory. Because in the section you quoted from me it pretty clearly says

Really? could you link to some peer reviewed work and/or demonstrate some sort of experiment that supports the thesis that evolution was proven incorrect decades ago?
and I'm seeing nothing but your supposition with nothing to support it. "Because I say so" is not acceptable as a refutation.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:11 PM
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begoodbees
Yes, it is the discovery of dna which blew the whole theory out the window but the indoctrinated religious zealots still cling onto it for dear life.


The same DNA that we use to link all families of organism? Interesting. DNA actually proves evolution correct and is used by evolutionary biologist today in experiments that might one day lead to return of some extinct species.

Or for example, how about this, already mentioned in this thread:



Creator could not decide what he would make... don't you agree?



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:12 PM
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begoodbees

peter vlar
reply to post by begoodbees
 


well, if it's all just the same E. Coli what do you think would happen if they switched environments? The strain that evolved to feed off of a new source of nutrition would starve in the traditional environment just as quickly as the original strain used would die off in the environment better suited for the newly emerged version. You're arguing semantics now and I'm not sure if that's a step up or step down from the strawman arguments littered throughout this thread. Either way its an intellectually dishonest approach. Not accepting reality is not the same as reality not existing.


I didn't say the same, I said it is all still ecoli, meaning the same species, meaning no evolution. variation is everywhere and does not need proving nor is it in any way evidence or proof of evolution.


You do not need to turn from a crocodile into a duck for it to be evolution. evolution is about all the steps, small and intermediary including those moments when punctuated equilibrium kicks in. Are anatomically modern humans a different species from Neanderthal? Most anthropologists would say no. there is a clear line of evolution from H. Erectus to them and to us both genetically and in the fossil record that you continuously deny.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 07:31 PM
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begoodbees
Since fossils only form is certain conditions it is likely that without the global flood (that was recorded in every ancient civilization, not just the bible) most of the fossils would not have formed at all.


Yes, one of them (flood event) I believe might be behind myth of Atlantis, but that is quite different story, and the same event might be story of flood mentioned in Bible, huge tsunami triggered by eruption of Thera around 1600 BC. Just recently scientist were able to find evidence of how huge this eruption was and tsunami that followed. Those 2 events have wiped Minonian civilization from face of earth, and there is lots of evidence that rest of Mediterranean also was devastated.


begoodbees
I believe it is you who are frustrated by the facts because you are the one reverting to insults.


Insulting you, how?


begoodbees
There is evidence all over the world that dinosaurs lived at the same time as man (paintings, carvings writings). Of course, with your lack of knowledge you do not know this. All you know is on side of the story. I know both sides.

Please tell me you are not talking about proven hoax - Ica Stones.
That would be funny... or is it documentary titled: 'Flintstones'? I remember watching those documentaries...



begoodbees
I'll say it again, evolution is not science, it cannot be observed or reproduced through experimentation. Science is about provable things not speculation. Getting dirt to come alive to begin with, now that is a whole other topic.


Yet, all scientist agree that evolution is science and is proven true with scientific observation.


In the biological sciences, evolution is a scientific theory that explains the emergence of new varieties of living things in the past and in the present; it is not a "theory of origins" about how life began. Evolution accounts for the striking patterns of similarities and differences among living things over time and across habitats through the action of biological processes such as natural selection, mutation, symbiosis, gene transfer, and genetic drift. Evolution has been subjected to scientific testing for over a century and has been (and continues to be) consistently confirmed by evidence from a wide range of fields.*

* Source - ncse.com...

On the other hand, ID is not science, but pure dream to connect Bible and Science. Even leading scientists in Vatican find this fundamental approach dangerous and wrong, he calls it a plague.



Note, he mentions historical facts and timescale between science and time when scriptures were written.




edit on 5-1-2014 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 11:47 PM
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There is, likely, an indecisive god viewing this material and saying "I can't decide if I want them to decide or me to decide. But I cannot figure out what I'm trying to decide and I cannot decide as to whether or not I even want to know."



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 01:28 AM
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1
For the leader. A psalm of David.
2
The heavens declare the glory of God; the sky proclaims its builder's craft.
3
One day to the next conveys that message; one night to the next imparts that knowledge.
4
2 There is no word or sound; no voice is heard;
5
3 Yet their report goes forth through all the earth, their message, to the ends of the world. God has pitched there a tent for the sun;
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it comes forth like a bridegroom from his chamber, and like an athlete joyfully runs its course.
7
From one end of the heavens it comes forth; its course runs through to the other; nothing escapes its heat.
8
The law of the LORD is perfect, refreshing the soul. The decree of the LORD is trustworthy, giving wisdom to the simple.
9
The precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart. The command of the LORD is clear, enlightening the eye.
10
The fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever. The statutes of the LORD are true, all of them just;
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More desirable than gold, than a hoard of purest gold, Sweeter also than honey or drippings from the comb.
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4 By them your servant is instructed; obeying them brings much reward.
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Who can detect heedless failings? Cleanse me from my unknown faults.
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But from willful sins keep your servant; let them never control me. Then shall I be blameless, innocent of grave sin.
15
Let the words of my mouth meet with your favor, keep the thoughts of my heart before you, LORD, my rock and my redeemer.


I have posted quite a bit of original material on the topic if you care to look. Like this one. post by mrphilosophias
 
]Or this one.[/url]
edit on 6-1-2014 by mrphilosophias because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-1-2014 by mrphilosophias because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 01:44 AM
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The only "self evident" thing that I've seen that speaks to intelligent design, is the Universe itself. It is designed to kill life wherever it finds it. No exceptions. No mercy. No grace. If DNA is the signature of intelligent design, then there's a problem with that' since DNA is massively inefficient and designed to be corrupted. To me, proof of intelligent design would be a Universe where you don't need math, and things like black holes and dark matter and dark energy wouldn't have to be "made up" just to give physicists something to do !
Also, the fact the Universe is designed to exterminate all life kind of gives the clue away. It's almost like something knew the gumbo was going to go bad in the first place !



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 03:49 AM
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tencap77
The only "self evident" thing that I've seen that speaks to intelligent design, is the Universe itself. It is designed to kill life wherever it finds it. No exceptions. No mercy. No grace. If DNA is the signature of intelligent design, then there's a problem with that' since DNA is massively inefficient and designed to be corrupted. To me, proof of intelligent design would be a Universe where you don't need math, and things like black holes and dark matter and dark energy wouldn't have to be "made up" just to give physicists something to do !
Also, the fact the Universe is designed to exterminate all life kind of gives the clue away. It's almost like something knew the gumbo was going to go bad in the first place !


The universe is not designed 'to' kill life, it is just a rough ride but life survives.



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 03:56 AM
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reply to post by SuperFrog
 


In philosophical terms there is a difference between 'no thing' and nothingness. No thing is no nameable thing - the void. This is not nothingness, it is something with the potential to become. Nothingness is profoundly absent. It is not there. People like Stephen Hawkins don't alert their listeners to this distinction. To say that something comes from absolutely nothing is cretinous. I have to laugh when I see them trying to put this one across...

edit on 6-1-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 04:39 AM
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Krazysh0t
reply to post by spartacus699
 


Science doesn't work in absolute guesswork. If it doesn't know the answer, it doesn't make up whatever it pleases to fill in the gaps, like religion (I don't know? answer: God). It just leaves it undefined and tries to create experiments and tests to fill in the holes. Asking science to explain what happened before the Big Bang is quite impossible with our level of technology (and may remain impossible with any level of technology).


and there's a lot of things science can't explain, that's why it's stupid to think it will explain everything. We're just not there yet.



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 04:49 AM
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TheRegal

spartacus699
Well if everything you say is true, then could you please explain where we came from. I'd be interested in knowing what you think? And I'm talking before the big bang. How did the big bang happen? Because to think that everything just came from nothing makes no sense. I really need a better explaination than that


I can tell you in complete honesty that I don't know what happened before the Big Bang. I don't know a ridiculous amount of information that we may or may not discover surrounding origins -- nobody does.

I'll ask you this, though: if you aren't satisfied with the official story of origins, why don't you become a scientist and study it an try to find answers and disprove the official story? If you're totaly incapable of going on with life without knowing, then where the hell is your effort in figuring it out? Where's the motivation?

You're seriously going to settle for a 2,000 year old account? When people burned animals as sacrifices and thought that cheap parlour tricks were "miracles"? You must really have high standards for theory of origins.


A set of excuses from a group-think that you were likely born into is apparently good enough, but admitting that we don't know and trying to figure it out is just not good enough. I see how it is.


ahhhhh, oh boy. Hmmmmm how do I explain this. I've spoken with God. I don't need 2000 year old accounts of anything. I've had communications with something. And I'm pretty sure it was God. And on many occasions. So I have my proof. Oh unless it was an alien I guess. ha ha. No one will know what happened way back then, so how can it be wrong to place a bet. At least I have a chance of winning. If you don't bet (scientists) that guarantee's your 0 odds at winning in the end. Ya maybe I'm wrong. But I have hope. What do scientists and atheists hope for? that we don't have a soul? And that there is no after life, that's what they call there hope? That's totally perverted. That's no hope at all. To deni your spirit is to deni the very thing that makes you alive and human.



posted on Jan, 6 2014 @ 04:57 AM
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AugustusMasonicus

spartacus699
And I'm talking before the big bang. How did the big bang happen? Because to think that everything just came from nothing makes no sense. I really need a better explaination than that


The Big Bang Theory does not postulate that 'everything came from nothing'.


so what did it come from? .... The anwser is.... anyone who can explain it doesn't actually know. Nobody knows. But if you don't put your faith in something then what do you have left? Atheism? That's empty. At least Christians have a plausable explaination.



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