A Message from The Qur'an

AfterInfinity
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

it arose in the 70's as a counter to the liberal commune/ism that infiltrated our country long ago.

Uh... Liberal communism? That's a mighty big paint brush you got there Jim.

why thank you... it must be right-brain technology to view the whole mural?

SisyphusRide

AfterInfinity
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

it arose in the 70's as a counter to the liberal commune/ism that infiltrated our country long ago.

Uh... Liberal communism? That's a mighty big paint brush you got there Jim.

why thank you... it must be right-brain technology to view the whole mural?

I can't say I agree. Progress was never made by one party alone.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


no but the trans-humanist/atheists do not understand that we must first transcend the animal in order to deserve the title "human"

well work on biomech and transhumanism later agreed?

SisyphusRide
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

no but the trans-humanist/atheists do not understand that we must first transcend the animal in order to deserve the title "human"

well work on biomech and transhumanism later agreed?

Um...I'm not sure "human" necessarily means "superior to all other lifeforms".

reply to post by TheWrightWing


It's called abrogation.

I once got on a local radio show and asked the muslim guest about it. I got a non-answer answer.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Who was talking superiority?

He was talking about transcending our animal natures. Does that imply superiority to them or simply passing beyond them? How can you become trans-human if you insist in miring yourself in your base animal natures, refusing to embrace those things that make you uniquely human in favor of wallowing in your base animal instincts and pleasures? Raw hedonism is basically that, and today's culture is a culture that says "If it feels good, do it." Tell me that's not raw hedonism and animalistic at its core.

wildtimes
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

Holy Cow!!

Now that's just frightening. May I ask, what is your position there in Malaysia? How long have you been there? And what became of the bullhorn jihadist threatening infidels and telling them to leave?

Is this "normal" in Malaysia?

What is the 'tolerance' like over there?

Ive been in Malaysia about 6 years now, I have a small events company.
I live in Kuala Lumpur which is a very cosmopolitan city, mosques next to churches, people mix more along socio economic lines than they do religious or racial ones. Its basically a normal western city.

The incident your talking about happened in a place called Kota Bharu which is about 600KM from Kuala Lumpur. Kota Bharu is the last place in Malaysia ruled by PAS which is basically an exteremist muslim political party. The guy I heard was not a religious leader but actually a politician who does this sort of thng every few months. I actually think its done in an effort to scare non muslims out but thats just my theory.

It was definitely not normal, Ive never heard anything like that outside of News, the muslims I know are all great people and religion isnt an issue. Needless to say I probably wont be going back to Kota Bharu

reply to post by TheWrightWing


reply to post by ketsuko


Abrogation in the Qur'an often depends on which scholar you are speaking to. While all Muslims believe in the concept of abrogation, just which verses and how many there are is up for debate among the Muslim community. Some scholars will say as little as only 1 verse was ever abrogated and others say more, the extremists are the ones who will just abrogate any verse they believe contradicts their personal views instead of looking for logic behind what is only contradictory on the surface. But then, that IS what extremists do in any religion, dismiss out of hand anything that doesn't fit their preconceived notions.

TheWrightWing

MamaJ
You should know by now "My God" is YOUR God as well. There is one singularity. He has many names... call him what you may or don't call him anything at all. I really do not care.

That makes for a great Coexist bumper sticker, however, it's not factual, epsecially in the case of Allah.

Allah is not the God of Abraham. Allah is Mohammad, which is clear to anyone who examines Islam casually.

This is not for the purpose of denigrating any religion, simply an analysis of facts using exact doctrine for source.

The God of Abraham would never utter these demands from the devoted, complete with links in-context and 3 translation by esteemed Islamic scholars:

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."

(Qur'an 8:12)

"Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (3:151)

First, Allah is the Arabic word used for "God". Christians who are Arabic speaking say Allah, because they speak Arabic and not English. When you read your very own bible in the Arabic language, you see that instead of the English word God the bible says Allah, because that is the Arabic word for the same entity.

Let us examine context now of what you quoted from the Quran:


وَمَا جَعَلَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَّا بُشْرَىٰ وَلِتَطْمَئِنَّ بِهِ قُلُوبُكُمْ ۚ وَمَا النَّصْرُ إِلَّا مِنْ عِنْدِ اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ [

10]
[Shakir 8:10] And Allah only gave it as a good news and that your hearts might be at ease thereby; and victory is only from Allah; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 8:10] (see commentary for verse 9)

إِذْ يُغَشِّيكُمُ النُّعَاسَ أَمَنَةً مِنْهُ وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَاءً لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ بِهِ وَيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمْ رِجْزَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الْأَقْدَامَ [11]
[Shakir 8:11] When He caused calm to fall on you as a security from Him and sent down upon you water from the cloud that He might thereby purify you, and take away from you the uncleanness of the Shaitan, and that He might fortify your hearts and steady (your) footsteps thereby.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 8:11]

The Muslim army, wearied with its long march needed a refreshing rest, therefore the Lord arranged it for them. It rained during the night, rendering the hard soil on which the pagans were moving heavy and fatiguing, and making the soft sand which the Muslims had to cross hard and more firm to walk upon. The "pollution of Shaytan" refers to his evil suggestions that had Allah willed to assist them they would not face such distress and hardship. The rain which fell in the night formed a little pool of water to be used for necessary purification.


إِذْ يُوحِي رَبُّكَ إِلَى الْمَلَائِكَةِ أَنِّي مَعَكُمْ فَثَبِّتُوا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ۚ سَأُلْقِي فِي قُلُوبِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا الرُّعْبَ فَاضْرِبُوا فَوْقَ الْأَعْنَاقِ وَاضْرِبُوا مِنْهُمْ كُلَّ بَنَانٍ [12]
[Shakir 8:12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 8:12]

To help the Muslims Allah instilled terror into the hearts of the infidels in order to destroy their morale and sent angels to fight the foe along side the believers, so that the power base of the polytheism could be destroyed, otherwise, as always, they would oppose the religion of Allah and His Prophet. Thereafter whosoever opposes Allah and His Prophet shall be severely punished. This rule also applies to those who opposed the declaration of the Holy Prophet at Ghadir Khum (see commentary of Al Maidah: 67), persecuted and deprived Ali and Fatimah of their rights, killed and tortured their children, the progeny of the Holy Prophet, particularly Imam Husayn, the grandson of the messenger of Allah, in Karbala, and held captive his family after Karbala. Refer to the commentary of al Baqarah: 84, 97 and 98. Please refer to the punishment that will be inflicted on those who harassed and persecuted Bibi Fatimah and his children on page 51 and 105. Also refer to an Nisa: 93 and 115; Ahzab: 57 and Shura: 23.

quran.al-islam.org...

Now, These verses are concerning a particular battle in which the Muslims were outnumbered and many of the Muslims were afraid of the enemy and did not want to confront their enemy in battle. This was a time when God wanted to show HIS power to the people, to show the people nothing happens under their own power and God alone controls events.

The terror referred is the same as the terror referred in the OT. As far as the question does the Christian God command people killed or heads to be cut off? Well yes, actually HE did many times:

8 Now Amalek came and fought with Israel in Rephidim. 9 And Moses said to Joshua, “Choose us some men and go out, fight with Amalek. Tomorrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in my hand.” 10 So Joshua did as Moses said to him, and fought with Amalek. And Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. 11 And so it was, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed; and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. 12 But Moses’ hands became heavy; so they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat on it. And Aaron and Hur supported his hands, one on one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. 13 So Joshua defeated Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.

14 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write this for a memorial in the book and recount it in the hearing of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.” 15 And Moses built an altar and called its name, The-Lord-Is-My-Banner;[a]

Link

And here:

Exodus 32:27

King James Version (KJV)

27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour

I hope this answers you somewhat. As a Christian your religion stems from the old testament. Jesus was a believer in the God of the old testament and this is the God Jesus spoke of as being His "Father in heaven" This is the God of Abraham and Moses who we all believe in.

While some Christians apparently reject the old testament, and I am unsure how one can reject the God of the Old Testament without it being a rejection of the God Jesus taught of, that does not matter for the sake of this discussion. The God of Mohammed (saw) had much in common, if not identical personalities, to the God of the Old Testament when you compare the texts side by side with like passages, and in nearly every instance one can easily find like passages

Therefore, one cannot dismiss out of hand the God of Mohammed (saw) as being somehow a different God... I see no differences.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


You see no difference because you're comparing the OT with the Quran...

Compare the gospels with the quran...

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

reply to post by Akragon


Do you believe Jesus was like unto Moses? Neither do I.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


reply to post by OpinionatedB

First, Allah is the Arabic word used for "God". Christians who are Arabic speaking say Allah, because they speak Arabic and not English. When you read your very own bible in the Arabic language, you see that instead of the English word God the bible says Allah, because that is the Arabic word for the same entity.

Non Muslims are not allowed to use the word Allah in SE Asia.
Christian communities in Malaysia and Indonesia have been threatened with caning if they continue to use it in their services.
That decision came from the highest Islamic court in the region

Non Muslims cant use Allah

Malaysian Christians forbidden to use Allah



The problem with Islam is Muslims, the vast majority of them are uneducated, ignorant, hypocritical, backwards morons.
Religious intolerance goes down the more people see the world and educate themselves, for the vast majority of the worlds 1.2 Billion Muslims the only education they feel they need comes from the koran and this leads to them basically being complete F***tards.

Once again I know plenty of Muslims and the ones I know are all great people but they are drop in the ocean when it comes to Islam as a whole

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


I spoke in that one thread of yours, I don't know much about Malaysia other than what I have heard, but I HAVE heard it has a LOT of extremism there...

and saying only Muslims have the right to say Allah is about as ignorant as it gets. Its a WORD for God in another language that apparently Malaysian Muslims know nothing about!

This is why I said in the other thread, extremism spreads the quickest in countries where Arabic is NOT the native tongue because it relies on the ignorance of the person..

ETA:

The Mt. Sinai Arabic Codex, the oldest known bible in the Arabic language, dated 867 AD, uses the word Allah for God. Here is one of the pages from the book of Hebrew:



www.arabicbible.com...
www.arabicbible.com...

As you can clearly see, Allah is just an Arabic word for God that is not specific to any one religion, and always has been this way, from that codex, to a new and modern Arabic language bible, they all say ALLAH and not God.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


weird... not only are you not allowed in their mosque/church, you're not allowed to say allah?

ya learn something new everyday...

ketsuko
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Who was talking superiority?

He was talking about transcending our animal natures. Does that imply superiority to them or simply passing beyond them? How can you become trans-human if you insist in miring yourself in your base animal natures, refusing to embrace those things that make you uniquely human in favor of wallowing in your base animal instincts and pleasures? Raw hedonism is basically that, and today's culture is a culture that says "If it feels good, do it." Tell me that's not raw hedonism and animalistic at its core.

We are animals. We share the same biology and instincts and needs. It's your ego that's talking right now, your superiority complex. You think animals are inferior, as well as their behaviors and their anatomy. You think we are better than our animal roots, and that we ought to disdain our animal heritage despite everything we still have from it, even today. The same system we use to classify them is the system we use to classify ourselves and our ancestors. So yes, it is a matter of superiority. And if humility makes me hedonistic, then so be it.

OpinionatedB

First, Allah is the Arabic word used for "God".

Oh, he said it was God? Well then, no one would lie about such a thing!

And this "God" grants his whims as they occur, eh?

That does not sound familiar at all...

Anyone can call anything "God", Allah is nothing at all, in any way, similar to the God of Abraham.

There is a reason those "Coexist" stickers exist, its to apologise for and obscure the nature of the doctrine represented by one particular symbol.

AfterInfinity
We are animals. We share the same biology and instincts and needs.

We are far more than animals.

Let me know when you discover any historical record kept by dolphins, or when polar bears land on Mars.

On topic:

Message from Islam? Allah hates unbelievers. Qur'an 30:45, 3:32, 22:38

Message from Christianity? God loves all his children.

The same "God"? Hardly.

reply to post by TheWrightWing

We are far more than animals.

Let me know when you discover any historical record kept by dolphins, or when polar bears land on Mars.

Most of our miracles were achieved by destroying the habitats of thousands of other species. So in other words, our "superiority" came at a steep price for the creatures we share this world with. We are in the process of ruining this earth in order to exercise our genius. So while you're bragging about our technological advances, I'll be shedding tears over the loss of life that made your arrogance possible. There's survival, and then there's gluttony and indifference.

reply to post by TheWrightWing

The same "God"? Hardly.

Well the message is exactly the same,

Maybe the 2 Gods are related or or nah there no possible way its the same God.

That would mean unity, that would mean the end of the petty differences we search for to make war.

We are far more than animals.

Yet we are animals, warm blooded mammals.

Let me know when you discover any historical record kept by dolphins

Will do,

However I doubt human intelligence will raise to those levels of discovery,

reply to post by TheWrightWing

The God of Abraham would never utter these demands from the devoted, complete with links in-context and 3 translation by esteemed Islamic scholars:

Man's interpretation would.

Look, we have seven billion plus humans on this earth today. We all have our own unique perspective of "God" no matter what religion or non religion we "attach" our self to.

The ancients through today speak to and hear from this same God. Its these conversations that are open for interpretation of and for each and every soul.

According to the myths there are different names attached to different God's but they are the same ONE CREATOR expressing himself through his counter parts...