The Real Fallen Angel!

I've had these thoughts concerning the christian bible
for some time, specifically the new testament where Jesus
enters the scene.

I am writing this as an agnostic, but with the
supposition that the bible is written as fact
and is true (For arguments sake).

So we all know of the ambiguity contained within
the passages of the bible, where
both Jesus and Lucifer are referred to as the
"Morning Star".

That is just one of the many similarities
that suggest that Jesus was in fact the real Lucifer!

We've all heard how an angel was cast out of heaven
for rebelling against God. And that he fell to
earth to live his days as a mere mortal man.

Then we have an "immaculate conception" where
a virgin woman gives birth to a baby Jesus.

A fallen angel you might say; to live life as man.

Why else would God put "His son" on earth?

To teach the word of God? Or to teach a fallen
angel a lesson? (Or perhaps both for redemption?)

IMO "Jesus" was more concerned with gaining authority,
and followers on earth by spreading his own word as him the Lord and Saviour;
than he was about spreading "Gods 'verbatim' word".

"No one comes to the father except through me".

God's reaction - "Wait what?. I didn't say that you little argghhhh, you're
banished from heaven for life".

*****

To me the Satan of the bible is actually God (Maybe in "disguise").

Or God is really Satan, whichever way you want to look at it.

I'm not a satanist, but this is how I
Interpret things that went on. (The bible is full of ambiguity and the whole thing is open to various interpretations)

For instance When biblical "Satan", took Jesus to a very high mountain and showed him
all the kingdoms of the world and said "All this
I will give you, if you bow down and worship me".

Only the REAL God can offer the kingdoms of earth
because they belong to him, since he is the creator.

The devil also took Jesus to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. And
said “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

To which Jesus replied "It is also written: Do not
put the lord your God to the test".

It's as if Satan (God) was giving Jesus a chance to be forgiven or redeemed,
if he bowed down to him and showed his faith in "God".

To solidify what I'm saying here.

Satan was testing Jesus' faith in God by asking him to jump (For "satan" was really God). The same way God tested Abraham's
faith by asking him to sacrifice his own son.

Basically what I'm saying is Jesus is the real fallen angel
people often refer to as lucifer and satan and God are
one and the same.

****

Also why do malevolent spirits or entities (Demons) fear Jesus'
name?

Is it because they're afraid to awaken the boss early
from his sleep? (Sorry I couldn't articulate that better!)

****

The last part I want to add is that when Jesus was on the
crucifix, he cried out "My God, My God, why hath
you forsaken me?"

Why would God abandon his only begotten son?

Unless of course he was a fallen angel who needed
redemption? And didn't show his faith in God when "Satan" "Tested" it.


*****

Actually I'd like to finish by saying I don't believe
in Christianity or any religion that attests to being dogmatic.

What makes one religion the absolute truth and the rest
a pack of blasphemous lies? Who gets to decide? Who can provide the evidence?

I'm of the opinion that the bible was written by Josephus
and Roman Scholars under the orders of the Roman Empire; as
a tool of "mass" (pardon the pun) control to divide the peoples.

The Romans then (IMO) planted an Infidel to conceive the idea of Islam;
with written texts and all that!

"If the world is fighting each other, no-ones fighting us".

The "IMMACULATE" - FAULTLESS, PERFECT, SPOTLESS, IMPECCABLE; "CONCEPTION" - IDEA, FORMULATION, CREATION, INVENTION

The "FAULTLESS IDEA"; THE "PERFECT INVENTION"

*****

Just some food for thought!

reply to post by Chipkin9


I go back and forth and back and forth as I read words from the bible. I'm no christian, but I read many things. That and I am pretty sure I met jesus at a point in time. I can't decide which guys are supposed to be the good guys. I am stubborn and I don't humble myself for anything, so maybe I am just like lucifer? Could that be his only mistake? Anyway...

I struggle with the whole angel demon thing. I have encountered 2 powerful things that seemed like demonic angels. They seemed like they were supposed to be, like it was their purpose. Maybe they were scary powerful angels, and not really demonic at all?

I say I talked with Jesus, but things about the experience and even some words from Jesus in the bible go against what all christians seem to think is good.

Enlightenment... Morning star... Man being God...



Basically I see your point, and I wonder about it all the time. I tend to think they are the same and even if it's not literal they seem to represent the same idea..

In fact I believe that I'm on his side...

reply to post by Chipkin9


Sipping my morning coffee, i'm reading this nodding my head.....Yes, yes....

I've decided to have toast.

reply to post by EA006


I have wondered about many things in the bible and when Genesis was identified with Babylonian ancient myths which had been twisted to suit a political purpose by the Jewish priests, I found it even more intriguing and did quite a bit of reading of texts blatantly obviously left out which put a very different perspective onto the biblical story.

I am currently reading the Bhag-Gita which puts a very different perspective on what was clearly a well spread or world religion at one time in the past. One of the similarities is that it is regarded as a 'Song' and a part of the bible also has its 'Song' part however the Bible is from the start written to show a simgle male deity. To keep the story possible or link it to paganism which the ancient Jews had to be weaned and threatened away from, Devils, Devas and Angels etc were left in. This was further developed in Christianity by the Saints and Mary and the Islamics had their djinns etc.

The Gita I find more acceptable because it separates everything into two parts which modern physics seem to concur with. It sees: one part of life as spirit and everything else as substance all emanating from the Godhead. There are two parts to God etc. I could go on for a very long post but its worth a read because its a lot more understandable and makes considerably more sense than the bible and its related religions indoctrinate people into believing. Two of the most important ideas from the Gita are that everything needs to be in balance - male and female etc which obviously patriarchal religions would deny and that we all share at the deepest level the same spark of Godhead so should respect and look after each other. It uses a great battle between two family members to make its points and of course, when one goes against the two principals I mentioned, war is inevitable. (There is a lot more than just the two examples I gave), but I have enjoyed reading it so far, albeit very slowly.

The Bhagavad Gita translated by Eknath Easwaran is the version I am enjoying.

reply to post by Chipkin9


Check out these threads it provides much additional information to aid you in your quest.

Jesus is Lucifer the Hidden Unicorn

Deafened by the NepTUNE of the Holy Spear-It

Chi Rho = MC^2

The Art of Shadow Ash and the Shade of the Sha

I have a ton of stuff I will continue adding to the last one about the Sha.
Will try to add a few more pages of info this week.

Keep in mind as the writing progresses so does my own mentality so expect tons of twists and turns.

reply to post by Chipkin9


Jesus was the morning star and Lucifer was the "son of the morning" star.

Isaiah 14:12

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Jesus existed with God from the beginning. Lucifer was a creation of theirs.

reply to post by Deetermined


So who created Jesus and God?

reply to post by boymonkey74


John 1:1-3

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Revelation 22:13

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Deetermined
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

John 1:1-3

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Revelation 22:13

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

So if the word was God the text should read:

"In the beginning was the God, And the God was with God, and the God was God" (I've always wanted to write that :lol.

I'd like to make the point though and reiterate what I said about Jesus and Lucifer both being the same Angel, Son, Person.

Lucifer it is said, was cast out of Heaven left to live his days on Earth as a mere mortal man, ok?

Why?

Because he went against Gods will and wanted his glory and to be seen as a God in his own right.

Okay? still following?

Well when Jesus spent his days here on Earth he put him self on a pedestal.

He had Disciples and went around spreading "The Word". However when he was spreading the word he made it clear that the only way to God was THROUGH HIM!!!

He was denying man a passage to God unless they worshiped him, like man did God.

This is EXACTLY Lucifers story. How do you emulate God's status? You tell people to worship you to get to him!

So Lucifer (Jesus) has succeeded it seems.

*****

I'm derailng this post as well to ask: If Jesus was God in the flesh (which is nonsense); and sent himself to Earth to get crucified, does this mean God committed suicide?

And if so, doesn't it beg the question: Is God in Purgatory?

I'm sure that could be a thread in it's own right.

muzzleflash
reply to post by Chipkin9

 

Check out these threads it provides much additional information to aid you in your quest.

Jesus is Lucifer the Hidden Unicorn

Deafened by the NepTUNE of the Holy Spear-It

Chi Rho = MC^2

The Art of Shadow Ash and the Shade of the Sha

I have a ton of stuff I will continue adding to the last one about the Sha.
Will try to add a few more pages of info this week.

Keep in mind as the writing progresses so does my own mentality so expect tons of twists and turns.

Thanks MuzzleFlash, I'll try and get a good read at those, when I have time.

reply to post by Chipkin9


Jesus did not put himself on a pedestal and he did not ask anyone to worship him. While Jesus was on earth, he told everyone to direct their worship towards his heavenly Father. He said that everything he did came from the Father, including his words. Jesus came to be a servant of God, so I'm not sure how you got the idea that Jesus was all puffed up if you've read the Bible. Jesus may have said he was the way, truth and the life, but that's because he was the one sent here to die so that we all could have eternal life with God. Without the sacrifice of Christ's life, there would be no afterlife.

Deetermined
reply to post by Chipkin9

 

Without the sacrifice of Christ's life, there would be no afterlife.

edit on 11-12-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

Why not?

Why did God need a blood sacrifice for man to be rewarded with a place in Heaven/Afterlife?

He didn't need to send any of his sons to earth to spread his word or die for man.

Man was already aware of God before Jesus even (supposedly) existed. So people already had a belief in God! And Man didn't need to go through Jesus to receive Gods love.

I think Jesus was being made an example of by being put here on earth. I think Jesus was really Lucifer and was put here as punishment for disobeying God and wanting to emulate Gods status.

That's why he was crucified and then sent to hell.

(Maybe he even founded the Roman Empire an wrote parts of the bible himself to portray himself as being like God).

That makes far more sense to me.

reply to post by Chipkin9


I guess I should have worded that better.

We needed Jesus to sacrifice his life in order for us to have an eternal life WITH GOD.

After Jesus died, he may have visited "the heart of the earth" where "Paradise" was to release the souls of believers to heaven in order to be with God, but he didn't go to hell. Remember, Jesus said he was going to "Paradise" before he died.

As for sacrificial blood, blood is the key to all life. Without blood running through the body, there is no life. As for the importance of Christ spilling his perfect and untainted blood to cleanse the temple and wipe it clean for our entry into heaven, that's a whole different thread of it's own, but it's worth the research to do if you have the desire.

reply to post by Deetermined



Sounds good in theory and if that's the way you want to view it all in order to give importance to your life, go for it.

OP.......stop thinking about it so much. The way that whole book was written........it was meant to confuse because all of the inconsistencies and vague analogies. It was meant to have someone standing in front of a congregation who is "qualified" to make sense of it for you. By all means, question everything. And when you're done, even though I don't know you aside from what you posted, I have this feeling you're not going to be satisfied with the answers you get.

Inquiring minds are not dependent on religion because religion depends on faith.

www.youtube.com...

Wow, this again. Jesus was not the devil. Jesus became man, helped and showed love to everyone, and died for our sins. The Devil will eventually become man, demand everyone worship him, and slaughter 2/3 of the world's population. Not really that alike.

My theology is a tad rusty... and as an agnostic I feel all theology is rusty... but was Satan's fall to Earth resultant in him living as a mortal? If so, how can he do all the paranormal nastiness he and his minions are accused of?

Just trying to define terms.

Taupin Desciple
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Sounds good in theory and if that's the way you want to view it all in order to give importance to your life, go for it.

OP.......stop thinking about it so much. The way that whole book was written........it was meant to confuse because all of the inconsistencies and vague analogies. It was meant to have someone standing in front of a congregation who is "qualified" to make sense of it for you. By all means, question everything. And when you're done, even though I don't know you aside from what you posted, I have this feeling you're not going to be satisfied with the answers you get.

Inquiring minds are not dependent on religion because religion depends on faith.

www.youtube.com...

You're absolutely right.

I am already of the preconceived notion that that exact period of our history will remain a mystery forever.

Something dirty went on at that point though.

We have evidence of Ancient Egyptians (And Pharaohs), Meso American cultures and yada yada, but Biblical figures? Not a trace.

Christianity was conceived to control opposing forces of Rome at the time and It's hands are full of blood at every turn of each Century.

But as an agnostic I still like the idea that biblical scripture and texts are accurate and true. It's like a game of Cluedo.

jjkenobi
Wow, this again. Jesus was not the devil. Jesus became man, helped and showed love to everyone, and died for our sins. The Devil will eventually become man, demand everyone worship him, and slaughter 2/3 of the world's population. Not really that alike.

I really wish this would happen just for the laugh I would get out of it.

God fearing Christians would be under the belief that this man was the Antichrist, and Atheists would be saying their Rosaries 10 times a day believing him to be Christ.

Me? As an Agnostic. I'd still be looking to find the truth.

ETA: Jesus became man: demanded worship from everyone so people could get to his father in heaven, and his religion slaughtered probably more than 2/3 the current world's population.

reply to post by Chipkin9


Your not the first to think this Chip, I'm not agnostic, I don't follow the bible verbatim, as it's a fun read and how true anything is, well is just up for debate. I will say I believe in a higher power but I'll leave it at that. So~

With what you just stated and how I know the "fall". The war in heaven, Jesus and Lucifer(the brightest start) blah blah, lucifer was cast out. Lucifer said all souls will go back to god and Jesus gives the choice (free will), with that~

Invert charecters with the Garden of Eden, the Snake is (Jesus, aka choice) and the Garden and inhabitants therein was Lucifer with demand's "Don't eat the fruit or you will die" (no choice) Until the preverbial snake comes in and tempts them. That's just the begining.

Ohhhh~ I'm sure I will get a lot of nay sayers on this but well bite me and do your own research.

The rest of the bible, from the old to the new testament if you substitute Jesus and Lucifer well.... It reads a very different story and fits the bill more accurately with Jesus who is Lucifer is the one offering free will, and Lucifer who is Jesus is one demanding son of a b##ch who will burn you for stepping outside the preverbial box... I hope I said that right....

Do I believe what I just stated??? Meh~ It's a radical thought but logically makes the Bible that everyone knows and adores more accurate at hinez site.

Baddogma
My theology is a tad rusty... and as an agnostic I feel all theology is rusty... but was Satan's fall to Earth resultant in him living as a mortal? If so, how can he do all the paranormal nastiness he and his minions are accused of?

Just trying to define terms.

I would assume his fall meant him living as a mortal. I don't know what other form he could have taken here on Earth.

If by paranormal nastiness, you mean things like possession, hauntings and poltergeist type things, then I would say after his death here on Earth, that he is now a trans-dimensional entity that is unseeable (or incomprehensible) due to our limited mental, spiritual or metaphysical abilities.