Avoiding Spiritual Burnout and Dark Night of the Soul

reply to post by HyphenSt1


All is permissible.

Unfortunately on this planet we are trained to be victims
and hapless fools from birth. Now a few people seem to
be 'from outside of the system', but for the most part
this is a prison planet. Everyone is a dog going back to
it's own vomit an endless number of cycles of history.

If a system of thought is "complete" however, (as in early-Buddhism) its teaching will be that it has nothing to teach and all truth is self-evident: creating a "feedback-loop to end all other feedback-loops" (when this train-of-thought is pursued to its "conclusion"..) and this ultimately results in what I can only call "Freedom",

No, that's he field talking in part. There are a few thing worth
knowing; not everything is nihilism. Now granted, those things
worth knowing are time and space dependent; but that's what
I always tell the old carpet bagger; he made a mistake not
discussing how things are not actually illusions.. just of varying
degrees of realness; and that's ok.. make use of the level of
realness you can in the world around you.. but don't confuse
the apparent part for the apparent whole.

Within every great truth there is a trap placed; it is the way
of things.. remember.. varying reality is not just OK.. it's the
way of things.. it will always be this way.. so don't seek to
transcend it.. or deny it..

learn to swim in the shallow water as well as the deep water,
and do not scorn any of it; the nose on the face of god is
not worth one iota more than the turd of the lowliest
mouse in a dug heap.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


I didn't mean to say "all is illusion" per se (as I think that this is often a message propagated by incomplete-Buddhism) but in fact, as you said, "ALL is real - to varying degrees" which is to include the incidents and tints of what we term "the mind" or "the imagination" along with what we term "the objective universe"..

In relation to what you said before about defining things.. I maintain that this planet is only a Prison if you define it as such, and indeed we have been trained and encouraged to see it this way, i think it is ultimately up to us..

Or should i say that the BIG trick, is assuming that we have to define this Earth as any ONE thing at all..?

these nefarious teachings, misunderstandings, standards, human-laws, taboos, theories, and so on, only have as much power as we give them and it is THESE things which I suggest we transcend, rather than the natural system itself..

In fact, I think that the only "flawed" teachings are in fact those which suggest that we "go against" the Natural System, instead of collaborating with it..

For example, it's as if most "accepted systems of thought" were trying to solve the problem of Flight and are saying "you must be born a 'flyer' to fly in the air. Gravity is a law and must be Obeyed" and so they take their place in The Universe by essentially settling for their current circumstances as the end-all.. This is also comparable to seeing "enlightenment" as the end-all, instead of seeing that state of mind as a useful tool not to be dwelled upon or taken for granted..

The original Buddhism and free-thinkers would seem to approach the 'problem' this way: "Gravity seems to 'pull' things to the ground when they attempt to ascend.. this 'pull' generates momentum and hence we can use it to BECOME a 'flyer' with Will.." which is actually just a matter of re-defining the 'problem' instead of seeking to somehow conquer or eradicate it..

make use of the level of
realness you can in the world around you.. but don't confuse
the apparent part for the apparent whole.

agreed!

It is definitely a mistake to confuse "the map" with "the territory"..

reply to post by HyphenSt1


I've been dumfounded for literally a lifetime.. people seem to WANT
Earth to be a prison. The simple powers of honesty and compassion
could turn this seeming prison into a paradise nearly overnight.

But nope.. not allowed.. we are trained from toddlerhood that life
is 'dog eat dog'. So when life turns out to be 'dog eat dog' why
big surprise there! Self fulfilling prophecy is the standard.

KPB

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by HyphenSt1

 

I've been dumfounded for literally a lifetime.. people seem to WANT
Earth to be a prison. The simple powers of honesty and compassion
could turn this seeming prison into a paradise nearly overnight.

But nope.. not allowed.. we are trained from toddlerhood that life
is 'dog eat dog'. So when life turns out to be 'dog eat dog' why
big surprise there! Self fulfilling prophecy is the standard.

KPB

It is just the game God likes to play.
He likes to spend time pretending he is in Hell before he remembers that there is no time.
Timeless being plays hide and seek in time and space.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Heh, it's hard to write meaningfully when regarding the extremes of the meta... it's like you realize you are simply talking to yourself... but, popping 'down' a few notches in reality, I reflect that you are saying in a sense to "be really agnostic."

I may know what you describe as "grokking" as I intuitively used to do that when very new, and when in the proper frame of mind, try to do it now... but, as far as the other context I'm trying to understand... I'll try this to illustrate...

Metaphor: It can cause alienation when one person in a stage play breaks character; examines the stage, props and others' acting.. and is thus ignored or berated by others having to break character, or not, to deal with you. Other actors don't like that... if one could see the audience past the stage lights, they might seem upset, too, as it breaks the suspension of disbelief and their subsequent enjoyment of the play.

My understanding (or not) of your post gives the impression, though, that "not playing along" is the thing to do... and if so, that implies that we aren't here, on Earth, to be part of the play, but rather, are trapped in it... and thus that implies that this world IS to be shunned like the destructive memes you identify.

Please clear this up as I might well be confused. I see what you are saying about being cognoscente of the bad programming we are all exposed to, but in what state are we to exist in the world when the fellow players are threatened by your candor and love?

I guess I'm wondering what this reality is "for"... if anything other than just being, that is. Nothing less than "why are we here?" Heh.

reply to post by Baddogma


You don't want much do you?

To properly answer this question has been the work of my lifetime.

It also seems to THE major question coming to the fore in MULTIPLE areas of thought; metaphysics, religion, ufos and ultimately physics.

I guess ill make a post..but don't expect too much and definitely no gift wrapping.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


I dislike gift wrapping anyway, (unless really, really pretty) Mr. Bear. But I'd even take old funny pages and Scotch tape, truth-be-known.

I await and thank you for your time and effort.

Weird to distill a life time of experience and thought to a few lines on the net, huh?

Good luck!

reply to post by Baddogma


Not at all.

I don't know if I'll be alive tomorrow, nor do I care,
so it's a good idea to answer any questions I get before
I go.

KPB

reply to post by Baddogma


This is not my post where I answer your question.. just a few
paragraphs for rumination.

If all that existed was one dynamic process which interacted
only with itself (as nothing else existed), then that one dynamic
process would of necessity have to play all the roles; from
serene overlord, intermediate slave-master and hapless slave.
In such a system everything would be a masturbation fantasy;
the one rule would be to not crash the party.

Each apparent point of being would be free to both oppress
and to be oppressed; to delude and to reveal: no apparent
being could reveal too much, as the part can only know a
part's worth of the whole. All parts of the scale of dynamic
tension between near perfect clarity and near perfect
delusion would be ecstasy from a certain perspective.

What are intermediate beings to do? If they were to awaken
to perfect clarity, they would cease to exist as an apparent
point of being. If they were to contract to 'perfect' self-ignorance,
they would cease to exist as well.. as being 'dynamic' is the very
nature of consciousness and apparent self-directed existence.

Too bright or too dark and the essence of being a limited but
dynamic process comes to an end. The party is over for one
spec of the whole shebang.

The 'trickster' is not A player; the 'trickster' is the ONLY player.

So what then is the most lustrous form to which any apparent
being might aspire?

Can you imagine a being, whose mind is split in two; one part
doesn't know anything, except scraps of concepts pieced
together over time; and the other part of mind is plugged-into
much that is clear? What would you call such a being? You'd
call them a human being. The leakage between the known
and the 'unknown'; between the 'unknown' and the 'known'
is in fact a custom-made masturbation device; a prince and
a pauper rolled all into one.

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


And in that line of thought, I've often wondered if we are all one, as has been posited and experienced at "higher levels" of being, then are we, the conscious splinters of this larger being, God, whatever, slightly (or completely) insane from being a lone consciousness floating in eternity forever?

That would, at some points, be truly hellish.

Keeping one's parts unaware and steeped in illusion would be a tool for coping... at least on the level of consciousness I'm familiar with now.

And this also implies that this singular consciousness can't actually "create" another, independent being and imbue it with "realness." Because if it could, I'm guessing it would, but then ... is it considered still one being?

I would hope that one other being, at least, making them non singular, could appear in the same improbable manner as the original and keep it company, or they could greet other spontaneously generating beings as they too appear from the eternal nearly nothing.

Or that the God CAN create to keep itself occupied in the permutations of infinity, and have that creation be some flavor of "real."

Or, that, heh, it's complete in itself and thus not, actually, lonely. This might be as God, or us, must be pretty large, being a nearly, or actually infinite being and all.

But those are things that occur to me when people say consciousness is, ultimately, one being... and when I've smoked funny cigarettes in the wee hours.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Thank you for the shared knowledge, brother.
It sync with me.

It's difficult to not to define self as this or that, especially when living as a layman, hehe but yeah I can see it's possible.

Thanks once again

peace.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

When nothing really works! all I can say is this thread works.... anything else might be identification to the tribe or the hype. On the other hand, I have learned that to say what is favorable is worthwhile in many ways. When a train runs out of railroad that certainly does not work and its easy when that happens to say what the heck was all that for then? Can you blame the train? Comfortably numb comes to mind, but identifying with the process does that. So time to move on again and all one can do is cut through and even cut through the cut through-ness. When you Be, beingness has to happen so let the ness do its things and just enjoy to Be. No descriptions currently available.

Brother I'm very glad you're still participating in this thread. Your wisdom and efforts are very helpful.

There's a concept in Brahmanism called Lila - divine play.

"The basic recurring theme in Hindu mythology is the creation of the world by the self-sacrifice of God—"sacrifice" in the original sense of "making sacred"—whereby God becomes the world which, in the end, becomes again God. This creative activity of the Divine is called lila, the play of God, and the world is seen as the stage of the divine play. Like most of Hindu mythology, the myth of lila has a strong magical flavour. Brahman is the great magician who transforms himself into the world and then performs this feat with his "magic creative power", which is the original meaning of maya in the Rig Veda.

The word maya—one of the most important terms in Indian philosophy—has changed its meaning over the centuries. From the might, or power, of the divine actor and magician, it came to signify the psychological state of anybody under the spell of the magic play. As long as we confuse the myriad forms of the divine lila with reality, without perceiving the unity of Brahman underlying all these forms, we are under the spell of maya. (...) In the Hindu view of nature, then, all forms are relative, fluid and ever-changing maya, conjured up by the great magician of the divine play. The world of maya changes continuously, because the divine lila is a rhythmic, dynamic play. The dynamic force of the play is karma, important concept of Indian thought. Karma means "action". It is the active principle of the play, the total universe in action, where everything is dynamically connected with everything else. In the words of the Gita Karma is the force of creation, wherefrom all things have their life." -Fritjof Capra

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by Baddogma

 

Each apparent point of being would be free to both oppress
and to be oppressed

'For I am the one who alone exists,
and I have no one who will judge me.' -The Thunder: Perfect Mind

What are intermediate beings to do?

'For many are the pleasant forms which exist in numerous sins,
and incontinencies,
and disgraceful passions,
and fleeting pleasures,
which (men) embrace until they become sober
and go up to their resting place.
And they will find me there,
and they will live,
and they will not die again.' -The Thunder: Perfect Mind

The 'trickster' is not A player; the 'trickster' is the ONLY player.

Yep. Trickster makes this world.. The trickster draws lines in the sand and crosses them, blurs them, erases them and re-draws them elsewhere. Going from unity to division and division to unity as Vishnu opens and closes his eyes. Metaphorically speaking.

It seems there are two great movements of the Absolute. From unity to division and from division to unity. It delights in each, delights in membering and re-membering over and over and over universe after universe after universe. First the great current of its Will separates us and scatters us across the cosmos as Vishnu opens his eye. The 'tower of Babel' falls and lines are drawn everywhere. Rejoice!

Then the current reverses and we begin to cross, blur, transcend the ephemeral lines between us...we real-ize our unity... we rebuild the tower as Vishnu closes his eye. Rejoice!

Rinse and repeat.

But where is the trap in this great truth?

LOVE this thread! Right up my alley!
From someone who is still on the journey!
jacygirl

KellyPrettyBear
The 'trickster' is not A player; the 'trickster' is the ONLY player.

God is just playing hide and seek with himself.

There is nothing divided - it is one thing and it is doing it all. All is done (no one doing) on earth as it is in heaven.
God played a trick by whispering words - those words (concepts) then appeared to take on life - the words began to speak of other than what is and then God got lost in the concepts and thought he was a concept living among other concepts.
Now there appeared to be more than just the one God all alone - there seemed to be more than there is but it was only ever a dream of separation.

There is only the present happening - there is no one doing the present happening - thoughts happen - sounds happen.
Words happen that tell stories about other than the present and one can be totally convinced that one has been something other than present...................but it is just a game the present, presence, oneness, beingness, aliveness, all there is, God...... is playing.

reply to post by Baddogma


Loneliness is the only weakness of the dynamic field. Understand that and how the game of cosmic peekaboo works and you are set. But here's the thing: if you want to play the really good games you need to learn both the Gamer and the Game unconditionally WITHOUT CRITICISM. Thats the entire secret of 'the problem with evil'.

If you don't learn to love like this you are a prisoner. If you do learn to love like this you get handed a refetees hat and a rule book.

Now all this conflicting metaphysics aside; does cosmic evil exist and does it have us prisoner? That's what people want to know; not this kind of stuff.

Well we think it does. We fight and die to make sure it does. We create systems designed to keep people prisoner in hell; both here on earth (its called unnecessary extreme poverty) and on all other worlds (it's called Christianity).

But does evil really really exist? Yes it does. It's called the soul; it's a very disturbed group energy field that we keep feeding. It's a Chinese finger trap that we all contribute to. It's our jailer.

But what about 'behind that'? Well let's take the log out our own eye (we have 2 layers of monster we've created together - memes and souls); let's clean that up first and see what layer is next. There will always be a next.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Yes! This thread has grown some meat and some of the best thinkers on this site are appearing (so excuse my presence, I'm drawn to the shoulders of giants).

KPB, there HAS to always be a "next," otherwise we reach a wall, or end, and thus, in a real sense, would be confined, or in a jail in my way of seeing it.

The loneliness is permeating reality somewhat, though, isn't it? I just wrote a convoluted paragraph but upon interruption, decided to abridge it... I'd guess the fact something emerged from nothing is either a singular event or nothing emerged from something, in that something, consciousness, is the eternal state and oblivion is a created concept from that, and not the other way around?

I'm interested in the misguided, or evil, group soul (and to be more clear, I'm interested in everything you have to convey, too, along with the others here) . These seem to be a flavor of Gnostic ideas. Can this group soul be equated to the Demiurge?

More important, what is the method to slip from it's clutches... vast agnosticism? If so, I've left it far behind, but something tells me I haven't ...totally, anyway, as I wouldn't be seeking with such energy.

reply to post by Baddogma


Don't put yourself down. Life is a group effort anyway. We don't all need to be polymaths we have each other.

Want to hear something interesting? These things I write only appear when someone asks me a question. On my own I ask few questions. My own needs are very minimal.

As to freedom? I explained that already.. read back further. But it's only 2 layers of freedom. To get 3 layers of freedom the entire world would have to stop worshipping 'evil' (a god or gods) and stop building tulpas (souls).

Nearly by design humans are tulpa building machines due to our physiology. I mean the bicameral mind and the zero point field interactions built into our autonomous visceral peripheral and central nervous systems.

We feel cut off from 'reality' so we create this soul and god and demon and ufo haunted world in an attempt to bridge the gap. Only that's not the right way to do it.

reply to post by Baddogma


By the by; any child which 'worships' its parents is psychologically and spiritually damaged.

Loving all that exists is healthy. Worship in any form is the chains which bind.

I like the track of this thread and some great thinking going on here.

Initially I advised reading some Krsna Consciousness, this is best done sans bias of orange robed, bell ringing teenagers at festivals.

This site has good, succinct inspirational words that are great for getting into the spiritual zone and re energising the connections to the divine. Regardless of faith.

www.krishna.com...

Absolute Truth refers to a reality which doesn't change over time. Absolute means all other truths are relative to it, or depend on it. When we talk about God, or Krishna, we're talking about the Absolute Truth.

The Absolute Truth is the source of everything, the ultimate cause of all causes. In Sanskrit, it is also called satyam param, the highest truth.

This supreme truth can be perceived in three features—as Brahman, all-pervading, impersonal oneness, as Paramatma, the manifestation of God within the heart of every being, and as Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. These three are the same one truth, understood from increasingly advanced levels of realization.

In the beginning the Absolute appears impersonal. With more advancement, the Supreme is perceived within one's own heart and the hearts of others. The highest realization is to see the Supreme Truth as the Supreme Person, who is complete in wealth, power, fame, beauty, knowledge, and renunciation. The Bhagavad-gita, the Srimad-Bhagavatam, and other Vedic literatures identify this Supreme Personality of Godhead as Krishna.

www.krishna.com...#

Krishna, "the all-attractive one," means the original, unique Supreme Person, the source of all that exists. God has many names, and each describes a different aspect of His personality. Allah, Vishnu, Jehovah, and God refer to His roles as creator, maintainer of the universe, and Lord of all. The name Krishna suggests the most charming and beautiful qualities of the Supreme Person, as He is, and as He appears to His most dear devotees.

Krishna appears as other forms of God—avatars—to create and maintain the universe, while He simultaneously enjoys loving relationships with His countless associates in the spiritual world. He visits this material world from time to time to free His devotees from material existence and to vanquish the wicked. He performs superhuman pastimes—lifting mountains, swallowing forest fires, and killing numerous extraordinarily powerful demons—as easily as a child playing with toys.