Obsessing about 'God' Pisses me Off

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

I neither
believe nor disbelieve in 'god'. It would be pointless to
do either one, as there is no way to verify the belief.

You don't have to verify a belief to have the belief. I find after investigation most people that take the "agnostic" approach are actually in this position "I don't believe it exists but I am open to the possibility of its existence". I would challenge anyone to honestly assess their belief about the existence of something. I think you'll find you always either believe it exists or you don't. Again, that isn't to say not believing in the existence is incompatible with believing in the possibility of its existence. I could not believe highly evolved conscious bi-pedal beings exist in Europa, but believe evidence could come to light to substantiate their existence. My point is I think agnostics actually fall into the category of atheists. There is just a common misunderstanding that atheists dismiss the possibility of existence. That's not accurate. Most atheists are so because a lack of evidence. Basing the belief on the lack of evidence isn't dismissing the possibility of existence it's merely asking for the evidence to be presented.

reply to post by FlyersFan

There are some of us Christians who dismiss most of the Old Testament and just stick to the gospels. (red letter Christians) Jesus is very different from the alleged 'god' of the Old Testament.

That's true. I'd much prefer if all Christians were 'red letter' ones. Still, majority of Christendom holds the entirety of the Bible as infallible or at least to be the 'word of god'. So it seems to me anyways.

reply to post by chrismarco

Some of the "god bashers" on here stretch the truth and make it appear as though they have Christians knocking down their door trying to make them convert.

Maybe not knocking down, but certainly knocking on…

Get over yourself because nobody cares whether or not you subscribe to religion..

That is so obviously demonstrably false it's laughable. Don't project your position onto everyone else. It might have made your post look good but it's simply a slap in the face of reality.

Even from a theological viewpoint using your own Bible you would be wrong. There is plenty of specific commandments to spread the faith and convert people.

Not really something worth getting worked up over.

The universal constants like pi and the golden mean and divine geometry prove intelligence in design. By way of intelligent programming of laws that govern the universe and life and the 3d world we live in. Does for me anyway. But Im not trying to force the idea down anyone else throat.
Forcing beliefs onto others is my pet peeve.

Obsessing about 'God' Pisses me Off

Hmmmmm....you sound a little obsessive about it.

reply to post by Kreyvic


It's my one and only rant.

An obvious joke.

Cheers.

KPB

Panic2k11
reply to post by ghostfacekilah00

 

Yes it can, he stated that he does not know... Do you read that as disbelievement?

I disbelieve the tooth-fairy, Santa Claus an many other things but at the same time there is plenty of things that I just do not know, some I'm comfortable of not knowing, some I do not need to know or I simply accept my inability to ever know (like my concept of God).

You can believe in God and not believe in God? I get that you can be open to the idea of there being a God, but that also means that you do not yet believe that there is a God.

reply to post by ghostfacekilah00

I get that you can be open to the idea of there being a God, but that also means that you do not yet believe that there is a God.

Exactly. That is precisely what my post above was about. When one reflects on their actual belief it should be clear one does or does not believe somethings exists. That in no way makes someone exempt from being open to the possibility of its existence.

I think many 'agnostics' are being disingenuous with their belief. Whether they are aware of it or not. Somehow agnosticism got twisted to mean "I don't know either way" from "I don't believe it exists because its existence is unknowable" as it originally meant. "agnostics" seem apprehensive to atheism because they think it implies atheists are taking a stance against the possibility of its existence. So in their mind they are taking the most fair position. However, that is the position of most atheists. I don't believe god exists. Could god exist? Maybe. We don't know. Lacking evidence. That's an example of an atheist who is also thinking in the spirit of "I don't know either way". Only the 'I don't know either way" is in regards to the possibility of its existence and not reflective of their current belief of its existence. The disingenuous part about the agnostics in my strong opinion is that they don't believe god exists (which would make them atheists), and over complicate the issue with attaching the discussion of possibility to it.

Hope that was cohesive and not too redundant.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I can't speak for other people on the whole agnostic thing, but
I'm not an agnostic nor an atheist nor a believer.

If 'god' appeared to me and smote me, I couldn't possibly regard
that any differently than a cat pooping in a litter box. Both are
an apparent reality that may in fact not be real. Neither has
more merit, nor would produce much more of a rise out of me.

In my path at least, the onion of existence can be peeled
infinitely.. today's 'god' is tomorrow's litter box and the
next day's 'god' again.

Your ontology simply does not apply to me.

Now that said, I can understand your point about the difference
between agnostics and atheists. As you may or may not know,
I did 7 years as a Christian and 7 years as a ranting posting
everywhere atheist. And when I was an atheist, it was commonly
discussed that 'agnostics' were more like cowardly atheists who
wouldn't come out of the closet than anything else.

I wanted the life experience of both sides, so I could talk to
both sides. I personally have no use for either of those
interpretations for myself. But I'm glad I did those sabbaticals.

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Can I ask you to answer most truthfully a hypothetical situation. Imagine you're hooked into a lie detector. Imagine for the sake of argument this lie detector actually works Now you get asked the question. Do you believe God exists. Yes or no. Imagine you reply with 'no'. Honestly what do you think the detector would read?

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

 

Can I ask you to answer most truthfully a hypothetical situation. Imagine you're hooked into a lie detector. Imagine for the sake of argument this lie detector actually works

Now you get asked the question. Do you believe God exists. Yes or no. Imagine you reply with 'no'. Honestly what do you think the detector would read?

Great question!

And I can't possibly answer that.

That is too vague a question.

Now if you asked me ANY of these questions, I'd say No and it would read as truthful.

---

Do you believe in a personal god?
Do you believe in a Christian god?
Do you believe in a god who created the unviverse

I don't believe in any of those things.

Do I OBSERVE that there is innate intelligence within and beyond
matter and energy? Yes, I observe that.

Does that intelligence rise to the level of 'god' or is it an emergent
property of something undefined? I don't know.

I simply don't know if 'God' exists or not.

And no amount of hand waving and semantic games can change that.

I have no problem with 'god' existing if it turns out that way.
I have no problem with 'god' not existing if it turns out that way.

I simply do not have enough information to form an opinion, and
I don't know of any way to gain that information.
And the answer does not matter to me either way.

Is there one sentient being who we are all part of, like in my signature?
It seems so. I could be wrong.

That's the best I can answer.

If I had to answer yes or no, or my family would be slaughtered, I'd
say "yes" there is a God, but not a personal one, and one that any
of us will ever meet, and whose existence is irrelevant and immaterial..
but even then the lie detector would go nuts, as I don't BELIEVE
anything.. that answer would be a 51% vs 50/50 answer, and it could
be wrong. I simply don't have the information you seek.. so I don't
BELIEVE anything about that question. That 51% answer to save my
family would functionally be a small lie. But to go with 51% in the
other direction would also be a small lie to save my family.

I DON'T KNOW AND I DON'T CARE AND IT DOESN'T MATTER MEANS
EXACTLY THAT. If the universe wants to grow a god someday,
it will.. if the universe doesn't want to grow a god someday,
it won't. And I wouldn't consider the universe god either.

KPB

Rikku
a pick'n'mix christian.
you are the worst.

Worst, eh?

Those Christians who take the entire bible literally have missed the point.
Do you really think God is going to send people to hell because they 'pull out early' during sex?
The bible says He will. (onanism).
Do you really think God is going to send people to hell for eating shellfish or bacon?
The bible says He will.
Do you really think God wrote the ten commandments on blocks of stone for Moses?
He didn't. Here's the information
Do you really think Abraham was sane (or even existed)??
Information shows he probably didn't exist, or if he did, the folklore surrounding him is unreliable
Do you really think the Jews were slaves in Egypt and 2 million of them left and lived in the desert for 40 years? Archeologists and historians and sociologists now conclude that it never happened.
Do you really think God would make 4% of the population homosexual and then tell them that, because He made them born that way, they are all going to hell? Really? That'd be a sucky sucky God.

All those things are IRRELEVANT to salvation. If people want to believe in the old testament folklore and mythology as literal, that's their choice, of course. But the truth of the matter is that the ONLY thing relevant to salvation and to being 'Christian' are the teachings of Jesus.

So which is really 'among the worst' ....

Trying to follow Jesus teaching of the greater two commandments of love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself' .... or ..... condemning people to hell for eating shellfish and for being born homosexual and for using birth control (pullingout), etc etc (that second bunch is what you are doing when you don't use common sense when reading scripture).

I believe what I want and you do the same! It takes a whole world of people to make a world.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Why dont' you write up these views as a post for your fellow
christians so I can give you stars and flags for it.

100% transcendently beautiful response.

!!!!



KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

It's above my pay grade.

And your rant is filled with calling people "intellectually lazy".

Maybe some have studied and know more than you think. Maybe you are missing some information your anger keeps you from seeing.

rickymouse
I never read of Jesus aggressively pushing religion. He just walked around healing people and spreading good will. I guess they improved on his method after he died. It has got a lot better than before though, at least we have a right to freedom of religion in this country. We could still be forced to believe in god or die like they used to do.

I believe in god but I do not push my beliefs on others. I have no clue what god is, some sort of consciousness I suppose. I really don't care, I like to believe something truthful and good exists, I won't find that believing in society. I do not see that in science either.

Well he did send his followers out to "teach', not keep their light under a bushel...right. They were to travel and own nothing and go tell the great news of Jesus coming and teachings, not clam up.

reply to post by Char-Lee


I do not experience anger. This rant is an optional
passion I can feel or not feel depending on what set
of 'clothing I feel like wearing'.

As far as others being able to perceive god without
his permission -- can't happen by definition.

And as the old Christians said, "god is the hidden god'.
It's true that.

If 'god exists' then god is like the sun.. no man or woman
can stand before this 'unfiltered god' without melting
to nonexistence. The OT has this concept all over it.

So thanks for your response. It allowed me to say
these things, which are useful.

reply to post by winofiend

stop getting in peoples faces when they're in hospital,

Yes well here in the US those "in your face" Christians seem to be near 100% of the people in groups like hospice that come and care for the dying in their homes and help their family cope. When people want the "christian charity" they don't mind so much.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

I like you Wino! or is it Fiend?

I have found that, Fiend" is closest to reality.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

The thing about Christianity in particular that kills me, is
that one might reasonably compare Christianity to the
mafia -- except of course Christianity has done far far
more evil than the Mafia ever has...

That would not be Christianity as is following someone named Jesus Christ. That would be church organizations formed for all maner of power and tax deduction.