Obsessing about 'God' Pisses me Off

overratedpatriotism

ghostfacekilah00
"I neither believe nor disbelieve in God" is like saying "I neither breathe nor don't breathe." You don't believe in God, period.

edit on 7-12-2013 by ghostfacekilah00 because: (no reason given)

There is nothing wrong with a little humility and stating that you do not know...

It takes a special kind of arrogance to tell someone else what they belief.

I don't know if there are pink unicorns in the blueberry forrests under the sea of senility on planet Jupiter.

I honestly don't.

But yeah, if someone wants to believe there is, then they are pretty stupid in my book. I won't stop them obviously, but to not know something is not to give credence to it's possibility.

reply to post by winofiend


Oh man I would pay money to see you hug a whale

Panic2k11

ghostfacekilah00
"I neither believe nor disbelieve in God" is like saying "I neither breathe nor don't breathe." You don't believe in God, period.

edit on 7-12-2013 by ghostfacekilah00 because: (no reason given)

That is false dichotomy, one can disbelieve without closing the door to a chance that it is a possibility. In fact what he said can be translated to "I do not know".

Not knowing (and the danger of the unknown) is the basic position of anyone facing something for the first time. In fact one of my pet peeves against most (some do not incur in this problem) mainstream religions is that the manual came so late in the game that it can't simply be relevant and at best is a collage (most is plagiarised) and is not even the result of a very creative writer. That those works have become so outdated that they needed many revisions or have been cherry picked for effect should be a clue to the issues behind them.

I do believe in God, I'm a pantheist. In the midst of a chaotic reality I can see an emergent order where entropy should be ruler. My faith is in the order I see around me and that I feel part of, it can be resumed to the idea that I hope my transitive existence has any meaning or contributes anything to the global picture.

So does he believe in God or not? Can't be both.

reply to post by winofiend


I like you Wino! or is it Fiend?

People think that I don't like Christians.. but it's not that way at all.
Anyone who condemns me before I was even born; who condemns me
for being loving and honest, just because they have a different human-
generated philosophy than I do.. that is way beyond obnoxious --
that is hateful, small-minded and unworthy of a human animal.

The great majority of people who genocided my ancestors, the
American Indians -- all 100 million of them or so, were card
carrying Christians.

But if I bring up this fact I'm told that I'm being 'racist' or 'wrong'
to characterize early Americans as mostly Christian. Yet Christians
call this a 'Christian nation -- or at least it used to be' ---- well
you can't have it both ways.

Either it never was a Christian nation --- in which case shut your
pie hole about that.. or if it WAS a Christian nation then you
better cry and wail and repent and put sack cloth on your head
about genociding the rightful americans, the Indians.

Don't talk to me about being arrogant! One meek little Indian
remnant that hasn't been exterminated yet, and I'm not
allowed to raise my hand on an Internet chat forum?

Yes, I know that modern Christians aren't guilty of genocoding
my ancestors... but they aren't asking for forgiveness and giving
the land back either... they aren't giving up their hateful and
demeaning ways and stopping the absolute arrogance of speaking
for 'god' for others, when they don't know any more than I do.

The victor always wants to suppress his victim and tell him to
pipe down.

Well Frigg that.

KPB

Not that you care (because you are confident in your self and that's a good thing)
.... I agree and disagree with different parts of your rant.
But I gotta' say ... it was an EXCELLENT rant. I"m giving it a flag ...

reply to post by ghostfacekilah00


Yes it can, he stated that he does not know... Do you read that as disbelievement?

I disbelieve the tooth-fairy, Santa Claus an many other things but at the same time there is plenty of things that I just do not know, some I'm comfortable of not knowing, some I do not need to know or I simply accept my inability to ever know (like my concept of God).

FlyersFan
Not that you care (because you are confident in your self and that's a good thing)
.... I agree and disagree with different parts of your rant.
But I gotta' say ... it was an EXCELLENT rant. I"m giving it a flag ...

Thanks.

I can see from another perspective that of course, I 'go too far'.

In fact I'm quite aware that many modern day Christians don't
even realize how evil the god of the old testament is, as they
haven't read it, and in fact wouldn't agree with it if they did.

In fact, there is no quicker way to de-convert a new-testament
only Christian than to have them read the old testament.

It really twists their noodle to read how an OT prophet called
upon the lord to kill several young children who were teasing
him (about his bald spot is the common observation), etc etc.

People never want to take responsibility for things they
become part of .. like a religion.. or a country.. or whatever.

The thing about Christianity in particular that kills me, is
that one might reasonably compare Christianity to the
mafia -- except of course Christianity has done far far
more evil than the Mafia ever has...

But paste Jesus on top of the Mafia and it's all suddenly
'ok' then? I just don't get it.

Presumably the 'body of christ' should be moral and kind
and loving, but that is in fact the exact opposite of how
it looks --- with all that long history of misdeeds that
dog them and they refuse to deal with.

FlyersFan
Not that you care (because you are confident in your self and that's a good thing)
.... I agree and disagree with different parts of your rant.
But I gotta' say ... it was an EXCELLENT rant. I"m giving it a flag ...

Thanks.

I can see from another perspective that of course, I 'go too far'.

In fact I'm quite aware that many modern day Christians don't
even realize how evil the god of the old testament is, as they
haven't read it, and in fact wouldn't agree with it if they did.

In fact, there is no quicker way to de-convert a new-testament
only Christian than to have them read the old testament.

It really twists their noodle to read how an OT prophet called
upon the lord to kill several young children who were teasing
him (about his bald spot is the common observation), etc etc.

People never want to take responsibility for things they
become part of .. like a religion.. or a country.. or whatever.

The thing about Christianity in particular that kills me, is
that one might reasonably compare Christianity to the
mafia -- except of course Christianity has done far far
more evil than the Mafia ever has...

But paste Jesus on top of the Mafia and it's all suddenly
'ok' then? I just don't get it.

Presumably the 'body of christ' should be moral and kind
and loving, but that is in fact the exact opposite of how
it looks --- with all that long history of misdeeds that
dog them and they refuse to deal with.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Well...

As a matter of fact, in my view there is a mass distributed intelligence from which everything flows.. mostly by evolution I'd say..

So I guess what you are lacking is a definition of God that you can work with...

As a pantheist (a term that defines my views, but is itself much too embraceable for other similar concepts) I can relate to your view but I disbelieve in a intelligence behind it (or something that would share our idea of intelligence), I chose to define it as a order (an intelligent arrangement that is observable to me) and that I feel an intrinsic part, without any need for acknowledged relevance or importance beyond what is self evident (from the perspective of one that accepts his one irrelevance).

This is one of my grievances with organized religion, that they see themselves as superior or special, in fact if they are special at all is as a group they are easier to target by compeering groups and so doomed to suffer for their sense of being special- This is verifiable for most mainstream religious groups, that even as they teach good morality at the same time they are twisted to justify amoral behavior that targets another of the elected ones.

reply to post by Panic2k11


I'm a liminal mystic. I don't define anything or need to label
anything, except when I talk about things on ATS or in RL.

Labels are not the solution, they are the problem in many
cases.

And I'm using 'intelligence' in a non-easily-identifiable way.

But the point is, I have no need, desire, or curiosity about
'god' as it's entirely pointless.

Thanks for your views and response, but I have no desire
to discuss pantheism or any 'ism' really.

But I wish you well on your path!

Thanks!

KPB

ou are taking this way too far.

not far enought. KELLYBEAR FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
whos with me?

ok i'll be over there>>

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

There are some of us Christians who dismiss most of the Old Testament and just stick to the gospels. (red letter Christians) Jesus is very different from the alleged 'god' of the Old Testament.

FlyersFan
reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

 

There are some of us Christians who dismiss most of the Old Testament and just stick to the gospels. (red letter Christians) Jesus is very different from the alleged 'god' of the Old Testament.

Jesus said that he was the fulfillment of the prophets..
which sneaks in the entire OT.

That said, I do not believe (you hear me say believe? I don't know)
that if Jesus existed, that he told a single person they were going
to hell.. or that anyone could go to hell.

In fact Jesus would have pissed off almost anyone he came into
contact with, that wanted to oppress regular human beings..

HMMM does Jesus remind you of someone?

I'll talk bible all day, and there is no loophole.. camel through
the eye of a needle or otherwise, that lets what Christianity
has become off the hook.

Thanks.

reply to post by FlyersFan

a pick'n'mix christian.
you are the worst.

reply to post by Rikku


No she is the best Christian I have met on ATS.
She doesn't just blindly follow whatever has been taught to her she questions it all, she has questioned the cores of her beliefs and has been ridiculed by other Christians on ATS for doing so.
She uses her God given mind to en-quire and question it all.
She doesn't judge others and condemn them to Hell like so man other so called Christians on ATS.
She is one Christian on ATS I would love to buy a pint.

EPIC RANT!

Kelly, you never fail to enlighten and amuse, both at the same time. And that's not easy.

As far as never getting into heaven goes, that's a comfort for me and I've said so to many a bible thumper.

Sounds like the most boring of afterlife options and frankly, I want no part of it.

Who was it that said, 'all the good bands will be in hell, anyways'?

reply to post by boymonkey74


I tried to friend FlyersFan I like her so much.
But she told me that she doesn't agree with the
stars and flags system.

She's a top rate person to have on ATS. I love
her!

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


If only we could get her to be Pope

I'll say it all day long, every christian needs to read Reza Asalans book zealot, then maybe take a cold shower, sit down on their own and contemplate their existence.

The choice between James’s vision of a Jewish religion anchored in the Law of Moses and derived from a Jewish nationalist who fought against Rome, and Paul’s vision of a Roman religion that divorced itself from Jewish provincialism and required nothing for salvation save belief in Christ, was not a difficult one for the second and third generations of Jesus’s followers to make. Two thousand years later, the Christ of Paul’s creation has utterly subsumed the Jesus of history. The memory of the revolutionary zealot who walked across Galilee gathering an army of disciples with the goal of establishing the Kingdom of God on earth, the magnetic preacher who defied the authority of the Temple priesthood in Jerusalem, the radical Jewish nationalist who challenged the Roman occupation and lost, has been almost completely lost to history.”

I always did believe that there was something bigger than just one person, that we are part of the whole. Sort of a tapestry concept. The old man in the sky who sits in judgment never made sense to me.

I guess this says it best:


We're not individual souls, but carry a little piece of a big soul in each of us. I don't quite understand it, but I intuit it.

To me, "God" is everywhere. The last place I've ever felt Him was in church.

OP, if you believe otherwise, that's also okay. We'll all know the truth when we pass away.