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Zuckerberg: Immigration 'one of biggest civil rights' issues of our time

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posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 09:57 AM
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ChesterJohn
reply to post by boncho
 





So yes, people want to cross the line. Borders are the difference of making a couple dollars a day, to many dollars an hour. But it is not as if these places were given the opportunity to progress on their own.


Did you know that illegal immigrants work for less wages than the current US market offers for that same job?

there are opportunities in their own countries as many US corporations have moved their facilities of manufacturing south of our border. they are paid as you say a few dollars a day that is why the company moved there for higher PROFIT and less cost.

Many of the Illegals in the US today are not only taking jobs away from hungry Americans but are also applying for assistance from our Govt such as welfare, food stamps, and even health insurance.

So you see it is not just about jobs but about milking the US system of which they have no legal right too.


You appear to be concerned about wages being driven down for U.S citizens because the illegal immigrants will do it much cheaper. Yes, that is a real issue. It is a full on social issue that affects us all in that respect.




posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 09:57 AM
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ChesterJohn
reply to post by boncho
 





So yes, people want to cross the line. Borders are the difference of making a couple dollars a day, to many dollars an hour. But it is not as if these places were given the opportunity to progress on their own.


Did you know that illegal immigrants work for less wages than the current US market offers for that same job?

there are opportunities in their own countries as many US corporations have moved their facilities of manufacturing south of our border. they are paid as you say a few dollars a day that is why the company moved there for higher PROFIT and less cost.

Many of the Illegals in the US today are not only taking jobs away from hungry Americans but are also applying for assistance from our Govt such as welfare, food stamps, and even health insurance.

So you see it is not just about jobs but about milking the US system of which they have no legal right too.


And the US exported all its chemically destructive/intensive operations into those countries destroying their natural environments because they don't have EPA regulations or anything of the kind. (Check my sig).

It's basically fallout of whatever long term plan is going on. Personally I think the idea might be to write the middle class out of existence. You have to remember that at one time there was no middle class. If a class system is going the way of the dodo, than yes there will be some bitching and moaning. You will have to constrict them until they stop reproducing or the select few learn how to prop themselves up to the remaining class systems.

But it's more than profit. Obviously if you can dumb your garbage in someone else's back yard rather than your own you will.

Welfare, food stamps and health insurance are just a reflection of something much larger that is going on, and a few immigrants legal or illegal, are not going to change this.
edit on 22-11-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 




Why have borders at all, if people crossing illegally won't be prosecuted for breaking the law?

And who made these laws? Descendants from a bunch of illegal immigrants. So it was ok when they came into this country but it's not ok when someone else does it.


(post by suz62 removed for a manners violation)

posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 10:33 AM
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buster2010
reply to post by beezzer
 




Why have borders at all, if people crossing illegally won't be prosecuted for breaking the law?

And who made these laws? Descendants from a bunch of illegal immigrants. So it was ok when they came into this country but it's not ok when someone else does it.


I'd go as far to say that all our ancestors were immigrants at one time or another; the spread of human beings across the globe. Even the Native Americans were once immigrants to the land now called the U.S.

Most of the worries people have seem to stem from losing one's cultural identity, the price of labour being driven down and downright homophobia.

The world is changing fast. We are becoming globalised economically in a true sense. It is making many people anxious; mostly those who have something to lose; a dreaded drop in living standards.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by ChesterJohn
 


The irony is that if say your average dissatisfied Mexican had enough resources for a pleasant existence alongside educational and occupational prospects he/she would not bother making the trip!

That applies to nearly all immigrants.

The most positive way to play it is by encouraging development for better resources, education, social stability, law and all the other civilized goodies to the developing world. Invest, I say. Invest in flesh and blood if you have the means and I promise you all the riches would come to your door step!

I'll tolerate my brothers and sisters on this earth until the Kingdom come as neighbours. But then again diversity always fascinated me.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by Revolution9
 


My concern is the influx of illegals taking Jobs from American's. Also as mentioned by others take advantage of loop holes to collect taxpayer monies for housing, College, food without ever paying taxes themselves.

I would pick cotton or cantaloupes right now if I could get the job but they are taken by both legal and illegal Migrants.

while the term migrant is a temporary worker in another country and Immigrant is one seeking to become a citizen, and Illegal's does not seek to be a citizen but only seeks to better themselves at the cost of another. Illegals take Jobs from the civilians and legal migrant workers i.e. the 20 encoders Zuckerberg is touting about.

If Zuckerberg cared about the law and that it should be amended to protect the citizens he surely would not be hiring illegals to work for him in the US.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 11:11 AM
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maybe we should understand the meaning of the world immigrant.

Websters Unabridged dict : Immigrant /Im mi·grant/ n. [L. immigrans, p. pr. of immigrare to go into: cf. F. immigrant. See Immigrate.] One who immigrates; one who comes to a country for the purpose of permanent residence; correlative of emigrant.

Immigrating to another country is to be done via a legal process the "Dream Act" of which Zuckerberg and others want congress to pass simply eliminates that and grants permanent legal status to those who by a criminal act entered the country.

Immigration is a legal process. Crossing borders illegally and taking jobs and tax dollars and sending back home to Mexico or where ever is a criminal act. This is why we should not pass the Dream Act as it encourages more criminal border crossings.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 11:20 AM
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buster2010
reply to post by beezzer
 




Why have borders at all, if people crossing illegally won't be prosecuted for breaking the law?

And who made these laws? Descendants from a bunch of illegal immigrants. So it was ok when they came into this country but it's not ok when someone else does it.


Yes because we live in the 21st century not the 17th century anymore. For the most part we've become less violent warring nations and produced law and order to keep it that way, and passed laws that protect us from some barbaric people that would do the same as in the 17th century. And immigration laws are one of those. And if you are stupid enough to believe that Mexicans are the only illegal immigrants I can guarantee that many of them are illegal islamic extremist, I would say they pose some of those 17th century threats if 9/11 is any indication. But sure let it go willy nilly and bow to your Islamic overlords and kiss their feet. That's going to be a wonderful world, I'll tell you what.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 11:23 AM
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ChesterJohn
reply to post by Revolution9
 


My concern is the influx of illegals taking Jobs from American's. Also as mentioned by others take advantage of loop holes to collect taxpayer monies for housing, College, food without ever paying taxes themselves.

I would pick cotton or cantaloupes right now if I could get the job but they are taken by both legal and illegal Migrants.

while the term migrant is a temporary worker in another country and Immigrant is one seeking to become a citizen, and Illegal's does not seek to be a citizen but only seeks to better themselves at the cost of another. Illegals take Jobs from the civilians and legal migrant workers i.e. the 20 encoders Zuckerberg is touting about.

If Zuckerberg cared about the law and that it should be amended to protect the citizens he surely would not be hiring illegals to work for him in the US.




I appreciate your concerns and they are very real concerns. Yes, I do think that outside the law big problems can arise and that this would be better dealt with legally.

It's just when you put yourself in that guy's shoes and find that there is a loop hole and there is an opportunity to have a better life then you are gonna take it.

A guy like Zuckerberg is thinking globally. That is where his revenue is. All his interests are in the global market. He is raising this issue as a global issue. He is pushing the issue with his personal demonstration of labour hire.

Honestly, my point about investing in people and nations in the developing world is a very valid one. Obviously many Mexican people (just as one example) are craving what the U.S has to offer. They are leaving their homeland on a very perilous journey of hardship to work illegally in another land. Despite all the hostility and lack of statues these people are still finding it easier to live like that in the U.S.

I cannot understand why the U.S, Europe, Israel and U.K get bashed so much in the world. We all have huge problems with immigration. We have proven our civilizations to be the most sought after in the world. On that score we should be spreading the "good news". I still believe enough in our civilizations to know that we have the best there is in terms of law, education and hygiene, etc.

I always joked when seeing the hostility others have for us and thought well Britain, Israel and America you can own my ass any day. We have the most free, fair and civilized balanced societies the world has to offer. There are certainly many many ways to improve and to interact with the other nations, but generally our human rights record for our own citizens is the very best in the world. That is where my interests lie; in flesh and blood civilized values for us and our children.

I hope none of us forget our place in the scheme of things because we still have everything to fight for.

I wish we could just take the field now that globalization is imminent. We need to be the ones that take our freedom to others, not to have any robbed from us.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Revolution9
 





A guy like Zuckerberg is thinking globally. That is where his revenue is. All his interests are in the global market. He is raising this issue as a global issue. He is pushing the issue with his personal demonstration of labour hire.


What I see wrong with your understanding is that the Dream ACT is not a global issue it is a national issue and Zuckerberg's statements are marked as such that he is promoting the passing of legislation that would legalize those who emigrated illegally.

While he may in fact be a globalist he is for his own pocket not for true concern over civil rights in the US.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 12:08 PM
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ChesterJohn
reply to post by Revolution9
 





A guy like Zuckerberg is thinking globally. That is where his revenue is. All his interests are in the global market. He is raising this issue as a global issue. He is pushing the issue with his personal demonstration of labour hire.


What I see wrong with your understanding is that the Dream ACT is not a global issue it is a national issue and Zuckerberg's statements are marked as such that he is promoting the passing of legislation that would legalize those who emigrated illegally.

While he may in fact be a globalist he is for his own pocket not for true concern over civil rights in the US.


There is no mistaking what he is doing. He is a total Global Corporate Capitalist promoting a market climate that will be lucrative to his business.

I'm sorry, but at the end of the day humans are humans to me. We all make the most of our resources and while there is a way for people to go into the U.S like this you bet they will use it. If the U.S government want to control it that would be a huge security operation and would cost a great deal of money and inconvenience, too.

You will not find any high profile politician in the U.S right now with any chance of clamping down heavily on illegal entry to the U.S to represent you. It is not in the interests of the economy as I stated earlier. They who deal the deck want it like this. In truth it is making the U.S richer the way it is right now.

Here where I live in the U.K there are many immigrant workers from Poland. They come here to do the jobs that local people will not do like work long hours in the smelly fish factories all night and pick flowers all day with an aching back. They have filled a labour gap for sure. None of the locals would do that work any more.

A few of the Polish people settle here. They are not hurting any one. I don't mind them being here.

I see myself as me living in the U.K in Europe in the world. The U.S will have to settle for being a player in a global market and not be so concerned with race and coveting its wealth for just its own benefit at the expense of other nations. That is the tide we are now swaying in and nothing is going to stop it. The whole world is the market place.

Nationalism is a dying word. There are good and bad points to that. It was always inevitable.

I see myself as an individual in this new world we have and in my own mind there are no longer any borders. I care about the world, not just the little bit of land I happen to live on.

Like with you, Chester John. You live in the U.S and I live in the U.K. Your wellbeing matters to me as another human being, just like my next door neighbour does. I have no counter your survival interests and you have none against me. Your nationality figures because I am very curious to learn about other nationalities and allow their experiences to become part of mine, but there are no negative connotations what so ever.






edit on 22-11-2013 by Revolution9 because: more stuff!



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by Revolution9
 


Are those Polish Migrant workers immigrating illegally?

I have been out of work for 11 months now and I can't get a job. right now I would pick fruit/flowers or work in a smelly fish factory if it meant having a full time job to pay the bills.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 03:20 PM
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beezzer
A broader question to those who are proponents of illegal immigration;

Should any country have borders?



While I have mixed feelings about the issue and therefore am not a "proponent" of illegal immigration, I'll answer.

No. If we were to redesign the concept of borders based on a modern understanding of society, I think we would end up with loose areas based on bio-region and culture. This would more or less just be for voting purposes and probably wouldn't include a "citizenry" element in any political or legal sense.

Borders haven't worked in the thousands of years we've had them. Why not come up with a better idea?



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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Corruption Exposed
reply to post by ChesterJohn
 




We are all the descendants of immigrants ...





posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 03:44 PM
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ldyserenity

buster2010
reply to post by beezzer
 




Why have borders at all, if people crossing illegally won't be prosecuted for breaking the law?

And who made these laws? Descendants from a bunch of illegal immigrants. So it was ok when they came into this country but it's not ok when someone else does it.


Yes because we live in the 21st century not the 17th century anymore. For the most part we've become less violent warring nations and produced law and order to keep it that way, and passed laws that protect us from some barbaric people that would do the same as in the 17th century. And immigration laws are one of those. And if you are stupid enough to believe that Mexicans are the only illegal immigrants I can guarantee that many of them are illegal islamic extremist, I would say they pose some of those 17th century threats if 9/11 is any indication. But sure let it go willy nilly and bow to your Islamic overlords and kiss their feet. That's going to be a wonderful world, I'll tell you what.


Show me how many of these politicians have family that was in this country in the 17th century. So these people weren't born back then luck for them huh? Then you start whining about Islamic extremist. The people that supposedly pulled 9/11 came into the country legally that's if you actually believe the line of crap they fed everyone. So get over the terrorist stuff if you haven't figured out by now it was all a false flag to get America into a BS war then there is no hope for you.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 06:20 PM
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Cuervo

beezzer
A broader question to those who are proponents of illegal immigration;

Should any country have borders?


Borders haven't worked in the thousands of years we've had them. Why not come up with a better idea?


Wow...thank you for saying that.
I agree that we need a better idea. Something different. But people don't like change so it's not well received. I get that, even with my head 'in the clouds'.
Change might mean that our standard of living would lower. To many of this world's poorest people, we poor people in North America are rich beyond belief. The inequity is too unjust.
What is wrong with me saying that everyone deserves to have an equal share...or that I understand why illegal immigrants risk death to get to a place that offers hope?
I'm not sure that Zuckerberg is concerned with much beyond his own expansion...but it would be nice.
jacygirl



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


Borders haven't worked because there is always someone or some group of someone's who wants what is across the border.

Let's micro-size it.

Your border is your home.

Can I walk in across your border, eat your food, watch your tv, sleep in your bed, use your soap and shampoo as I use your shower?



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 07:32 PM
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jacygirl
Get rid of all the borders...they are imaginary lines used to keep people separated.


careful what you ask for, you don't seem to understand that attempting such will be the cause of world war 3 whether the attempt was peaceful or not. that idea is why imperialism exists in the first place, to unite all nations one way or another.



posted on Nov, 22 2013 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by ChesterJohn
 


illegal immigration is as wrong and detrimental to the very nation illegal immigrants wish to be a part of.


do things the right way or be the object of social stress.

I have to wait almost a year for my wife and child to join me here in the US because there are MILLIONS of illegal. aliens applying for citizenship. If they would have all done things through the proper chanels I would not have a broken family traumatizing my kid while she waits for almost a year in another country for our situation to be considered and our application to be processed. Apparently a citizen is second class to others who are not part of our national family. My family and I have to wait because others couldn't ....


Respect the law so as to be respected by the citizenry it represents...




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