US Versus China

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posted on Nov, 20 2013 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





The US can blockade them and destroy their entire economy

Great point, Economic warfare is always on the card. However, there are plenty of other countries that are also dependent on China and might hesitate to jump on the blockade.

However in regards to our defense system and advance technology: Would we be able to manufacture the electrical components to run those advance systems in order to maintain them , repair them, and create them?

Who is to say there aren't back doors built into the chips we use in those advance systems and when we press the button nothing happens?
edit on 21-11-2013 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:02 AM
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interupt42
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 





The US can blockade them and destroy their entire economy

Great point, Economic warfare is always on the card. However, there are plenty of other countries that are also dependent on China and might hesitate to jump on the blockade.

However in regards to our defense system and advance technology: Would we be able to manufacture the electrical components to run those advance systems in order to maintain them , repair them, and create them?


No one has to jump on board. We have complete control of the entire world's shipping lanes. No one can trade if we say they can't. End of story.

We won't need to do all this repairing and maintanence, the war would be over very quickly. We would destroy their entire countries infrastructure while they sat and watched. They have ZERO force projection capabilities. There is literally nothing outside of nuclear war they can do. They will not launch, as doing so would permanently destroy their entire country. We may not be able to stop all their nukes, but we will 100% nuke them into a fallout wasteland, and there is nothing they can do about it.

If you want to think there are backdoor's hidden that are impossible to find be my guest. People say the same thing about tech that America sells off. It doesn't exist. There is a lot of counterfeit tech we buy though.
edit on 21-11-2013 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


All valid points especially in traditional warfare.

However unlikely, there is a possibility that our advance technology could have a highly vulnerable weakness.

Our ships controlling those shipping lanes , our anti defense systems, and nuclear facility all have electronic components in them.

If we are truly using electronic components on our advance technology that is manufactured by foreign entities including China , then we could be open to hardware weakness. Therefore isn't possible that our advance system might contain electronic components with open backdoors? If so, we might be surprised when we go press the button and nothing happens or something happens that we weren't expecting.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:24 AM
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If we declare a national emergency many new weapons will be kicked out. Things like this:www.sfgate.com...

Energy weapons of many kinds. What ever the hell we REALLY have in orbit may open up. Who knows?



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 12:46 AM
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interupt42
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


All valid points especially in traditional warfare.

However unlikely, there is a possibility that our advance technology could have a highly vulnerable weakness.

Our ships controlling those shipping lanes , our anti defense systems, and nuclear facility all have electronic components in them.

If we are truly using electronic components on our advance technology that is manufactured by foreign entities including China , then we could be open to hardware weakness. Therefore isn't possible that our advance system might contain electronic components with open backdoors? If so, we might be surprised when we go press the button and nothing happens or something happens that we weren't expecting.





Show me a single piece of actual hard evidence saying this is so, and we can discuss it. Otherwise it's baseless speculation. I might as well speculate the US has demons working for it that will eat all of China in 2 hours.

Going on actual evidence, the US controls world trade. In the event of war all trade stops with that country. Nothing gets in or out on a scale that is worth mentioning.

We have global force projection power, we can put more power at any point in the world than any other country can.

We can strike China with impunity, there is nothing they can do.

In a war of the US vs. entire world, the US most likely wins. Ten, twenty, thirty years from now .. who knows. Right now that is the state of world military power.

By the way, the next gen aircraft produced by China seems to be subpar, and I believe they are looking to sell them. I wonder if the US pulled a fast one by letting them steal blueprints, and making sure the blueprints were not the real deal. I am not saying that is the case, but it's an interesting thought exercise.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by interupt42
 


Mexico has some great avation industry electronics now. And japan can and has made electronics for the US too. CHina is just cheaper thats it.

As for chinas numbers...Bio weapons that target specific nationalities are rumored to be in development as well. We could just drop in a class 4 level virus into china if we wanted to do somethingmore devastating than a nuclear strike. Or who knows the satellite weaponry in stasis comes online and obliterates chinese nuclear forces or the PRC leadership before they get a chance to order their troops to do anything. Yeah yeah..i know no assasinating the leaderships...But its effective if done first and if it totally executed.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by superman2012
 


More bellies to feed, logistics has always been the military killer and always will.
Why do you think the Russians with their inferior equipment and training defeated the Superior Germans?
Scorched earth and the Russian winter, killed Germany.
All one really needs to do is survive the initial assault, then we can do like the French partisans did.
Then it is an easy war of attrition.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 01:47 AM
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Any war between us would escalate to nuclear anyways so it doesn't matter. I don't think we could contain them quick enough with an initial strike to prevent retaliation and vice versa.

Even if it wasn't already in the opening salvos of this purposed war, there's no way one side would let the other defeat them in a conventional war without one last all out retaliatory nuclear strike.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 02:03 AM
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Fingersoup
Any war between us would escalate to nuclear anyways so it doesn't matter. I don't think we could contain them quick enough with an initial strike to prevent retaliation and vice versa.

Even if it wasn't already in the opening salvos of this purposed war, there's no way one side would let the other defeat them in a conventional war without one last all out retaliatory nuclear strike.

Yes, because Russia tried just that before they collapsed.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 03:05 AM
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OccamsRazor04
We have complete control of the entire world's shipping lanes. No one can trade if we say they can't. End of story.


That is incorrect, and I think China, Russia, the U.N may have something to say about that.

South China Sea


OccamsRazor04
They have ZERO force projection capabilities. There is literally nothing outside of nuclear war they can do. They will not launch, as doing so would permanently destroy their entire country. We may not be able to stop all their nukes, but we will 100% nuke them into a fallout wasteland, and there is nothing they can do about it.


They have limited military projection, not 'ZERO'. They also have allies: Russia, N Korea, Pakistan, even Cuba. Add those into the mix and no one wins.

edit on 2120132013Thu, 21 Nov 2013 03:05:46 -060003am1121ThursdayAmerica/Chicago by doorhandle because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 03:07 AM
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You're talking about nuclear powers going to war with other nuclear powers.

Things would "Blow up". Noone would truly win. The declared "winner" would be the one who had the better missile delivery system and the better missile defence system.
edit on 21-11-2013 by DaRAGE because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 03:19 AM
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doorhandle

OccamsRazor04
We have complete control of the entire world's shipping lanes. No one can trade if we say they can't. End of story.


That is incorrect, and I think China, Russia, the U.N may have something to say about that.

South China Sea

I don't care what you think. The UN has no navy, and Russia and China together has a laughable navy, and so far behind the US in naval power it's ridiculous. I have no idea why you posted a link to a website about the South China Sea. The US would shut down whatever it wanted whenever it wanted, and no one could say anything about it. If the US just randomly started blocking shipping lanes every country in the world would get upset fast. In a wartime situation no one would bat an eye if the US blocked all trade in and out of our enemie's ports.



OccamsRazor04
They have ZERO force projection capabilities. There is literally nothing outside of nuclear war they can do. They will not launch, as doing so would permanently destroy their entire country. We may not be able to stop all their nukes, but we will 100% nuke them into a fallout wasteland, and there is nothing they can do about it.


They have limited military projection, not 'ZERO'. They also have allies: Russia, N Korea, Pakistan, even Cuba. Add those into the mix and no one wins.

edit on 2120132013Thu, 21 Nov 2013 03:05:46 -060003am1121ThursdayAmerica/Chicago by doorhandle because: (no reason given)

No. They have ZERO force projection when it comes to the US. They have limited projection versus other Asian countries. Russia has ZERO force projection and is lucky it's rusty ships float, North Korea has ZERO force projection, Pakistan has ZERO force projection, Cuba has ZERO force projection.

Not one of them would engage in a war against the US. The only way any of them could hurt the US was through nuclear weapons. All of them would be obliterated at the first sign of nukes. If you think Russia is going to launch nukes against the US on China's behalf you are so far beyond delusional I don't know what to say.

So please, tell me what force projection power any of those nations has that threatens the US.

The US does not need to invade China, and to do so would be remarkably stupid. Blockade all trade, destroy infrastructure, watch China self implode.

In the future, China could be a beast. China could also self implode before then. Time will tell. Right now, there is no debate as to who wins.
edit on 21-11-2013 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 03:48 AM
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I think China would have a problem with logistics. Suppose they do have a million man army. How many ships will it take to get them here? Certainly aren't going to fly them all here. And feeding them? thats a lot of food.

And just maybe we might pick up this massive flotilla on radar and sink it...



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 04:08 AM
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tinner07
I think China would have a problem with logistics. Suppose they do have a million man army. How many ships will it take to get them here? Certainly aren't going to fly them all here. And feeding them? thats a lot of food.

And just maybe we might pick up this massive flotilla on radar and sink it...

Exactly. HOW would they get them here. It's not possible. We wouldn't fare so well I think either landing a lot of troops in China. That's why blockades and bombing of infrastructure is the way to go.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 04:14 AM
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Everyone would lose..



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 04:35 AM
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Soloprotocol
Everyone would lose..

Definite possibility. Depends on if China used nukes. Not a gamble I would bet on, but I don't think they would.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 



OccamsRazor04

interupt42
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


All valid points especially in traditional warfare.

However unlikely, there is a possibility that our advance technology could have a highly vulnerable weakness.

Our ships controlling those shipping lanes , our anti defense systems, and nuclear facility all have electronic components in them.

If we are truly using electronic components on our advance technology that is manufactured by foreign entities including China , then we could be open to hardware weakness. Therefore isn't possible that our advance system might contain electronic components with open backdoors? If so, we might be surprised when we go press the button and nothing happens or something happens that we weren't expecting.





Show me a single piece of actual hard evidence saying this is so, and we can discuss it. Otherwise it's baseless speculation. I might as well speculate the US has demons working for it that will eat all of China in 2 hours.



Fake chips threaten military:
phys.org...




Other serious roadblocks deter the detection of counterfeits within the military, according to the Commerce Department. It found the armed forces had no reliable method for tracking bogus chips and that numerous attempts to warn military authorities about counterfeits "have fallen on deaf ears."




Separate studies this year by the Commerce Department and the Government Accountability Office concluded that the armed forces -- which use chips in everything from communications and radar systems to warplanes and missiles -- is alarmingly vulnerable to fakes.






Commerce officials partly blamed the Iraq and Afghanistan wars for diminishing the supplies of chips the military normally uses for equipment repairs and forcing it to rely on questionable dealers for replacement parts. Moreover, both studies cited serious flaws in the Pentagon's procedures for spotting sham components.

Read more at: phys.org...

edit on 21-11-2013 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 08:19 AM
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tinner07
I think China would have a problem with logistics. Suppose they do have a million man army. How many ships will it take to get them here? Certainly aren't going to fly them all here. And feeding them? thats a lot of food.

And just maybe we might pick up this massive flotilla on radar and sink it...

The only thing that would work is to have the US fight many fronts and then devalue the US dollar forcing the US to come to them. If they don't have home turf they would lose...unless they are willing to use nukes. 3 in the atmosphere would create an EMP that would all but cut the head off the US military snake. But then nukes are used and the US would retaliate by nuking China...of this I am sure.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 08:34 AM
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interupt42

US Achilles Tendons that I see:

1. How would the US be able to fight against china if we needed to replenish our electronic components and supplies?
2. Is their enough Americans with the knowledge and capability to successfully manufacture weapons in-house ?


China Achilles Tendons:
Maybe you can help with the list here.

edit on 11/20/2013 by Mirthful Me because: All Caps Title...


1. we would revert to old school tech. this is partly why the military hangs onto old tech. as a backup.
2. I would venture that there are WAY more Americans who reload ammo.

seriously though. anything related to civilian weapons and ammo the USA has the upper hand.

China? when have they won a war? do they know how to fight?

I recall that big country got STOMPED by tiny little Japan in the SINO war.

Plus, the American population has a man to man size/strength advantage. If the war was only USA vs. China with no outsiders then we would walk all over China.



posted on Nov, 21 2013 @ 08:34 AM
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g146541
reply to post by superman2012
 


More bellies to feed, logistics has always been the military killer and always will.
Why do you think the Russians with their inferior equipment and training defeated the Superior Germans?
Scorched earth and the Russian winter, killed Germany.
All one really needs to do is survive the initial assault, then we can do like the French partisans did.
Then it is an easy war of attrition.

I don't think that China would invade. I think they would draw their enemy to them. Think about it, if China defeated the US military, and that is a big if, and then they slowly starting coming to the continental US and offered food, safety, whatever was needed to people if they killed the infrastructure, people would jump all over it. Sure, it would be a warzone and there would be pockets of people that would resist, but for how long? At the expense of their family's safety? Sure there are millions of guns in the US, but it isn't the movies. There are not too many Rambos left. The majority of Americans are out of shape and wouldn't last too long out in the woods without the modern conveniences of home.

Russia had more flesh, that is how they defeated the Germans. Winter and Hitler's moronic orders also fed Germany's loss.






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