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And You Thought We Were Nuts? This Is The Dangers Of Explaining The Bible Without Discernment

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posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 11:21 PM
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No, seriously, remember that no Scripture is of private interpretation. If someone throws something new into the mix, we need to step back, think it through, and discern if this new thing fits with the whole. Since God has laid it all out for us already, anything new will probably not fit, unless it is a long-suppressed truth which is coming into view again. The salvation of all (aka, Universal Reconciliation) is one such LST.




posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 12:21 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


How can any fan's interpretation of a book they enjoy be wrong or right? You know, so long as it isn't a text book on Calculus or something solid like that? You see, like it or not, just because you believe in the Bible does not make the Bible a factual document. No disrespect intended, but that's the truth of the matter. So no one's interpretation is any more accurate than another's. And more importantly, we live in a nation were people are free to practice whatever religion they like in any way they like, and to hear you claim that to be a danger leads me to think you'd feel more at home in a good old, iron-fisted theocracy.

That being said, you've missed the point I was making. The message is a good one, regardless of the man who came up with it. It is a message of understanding and peace. Yes, the man is a monster and anyone who knows who he is would agree, but even from the lips of monsters can pass sound advice.

Let me put it like this; Bernie Madoff is a villain, but I wouldn't scoff if he offered me tax advice.

PS Your little description of how cults come to exist is pretty much how every religion comes to exist.

edit on 13-11-2013 by RatoAstuto because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-11-2013 by RatoAstuto because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 12:21 AM
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HanzHenry
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


"the bible is not to be taken literally,
Yet the idiots the world over do so, still. To heck with dinosaurs they say."

Lol? I take the Bible literally, and occasionally metaphorically where the language and context calls for it. Yet, I believe dinosaurs existed....you are apparently misinformed .



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 03:29 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Brilliant. Anyway God isn't interested is our intelligence or knowledge. That will annoy the snot out of theologians now won't it.



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 05:14 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Discernment is for people who want to know God.

Its not for those who want money, fame, to be seen as being "religious" etc. etc. etc.

Knowing God is not what most people want religion to be about, so they don't go the discernment route.



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 07:16 AM
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RatoAstuto
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


How can any fan's interpretation of a book they enjoy be wrong or right? You know, so long as it isn't a text book on Calculus or something solid like that? You see, like it or not, just because you believe in the Bible does not make the Bible a factual document. No disrespect intended, but that's the truth of the matter. So no one's interpretation is any more accurate than another's. And more importantly, we live in a nation were people are free to practice whatever religion they like in any way they like, and to hear you claim that to be a danger leads me to think you'd feel more at home in a good old, iron-fisted theocracy.

That being said, you've missed the point I was making. The message is a good one, regardless of the man who came up with it. It is a message of understanding and peace. Yes, the man is a monster and anyone who knows who he is would agree, but even from the lips of monsters can pass sound advice.

Let me put it like this; Bernie Madoff is a villain, but I wouldn't scoff if he offered me tax advice.

PS Your little description of how cults come to exist is pretty much how every religion comes to exist.

edit on 13-11-2013 by RatoAstuto because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-11-2013 by RatoAstuto because: (no reason given)


How many cults are based simply on..."oh they said something pretty so let me put aside every reason and logic and embrace it, even to the point I may have to dismiss who it is saying it".

Charles Manson
Marshall Herff Applewhite
Adolph Hitler
Barack Obama
Kim Jong Il

All have fanboys who embrace the person's words, without dissecting what they really are saying.



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 07:18 AM
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MadMax9
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Brilliant. Anyway God isn't interested is our intelligence or knowledge. That will annoy the snot out of theologians now won't it.


Really? Sorry, but intelligence and knowledge is actually promoted in the Bible.



posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Can you provide me some quotes? I am just curious... We have many many teachings on the importance of knowledge and learning as well... But I did not realize Christianity had the same.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 12:08 AM
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OpinionatedB
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Can you provide me some quotes? I am just curious... We have many many teachings on the importance of knowledge and learning as well... But I did not realize Christianity had the same.



I just saw this on my side thingy that you had responded.


Job 34:2 Hear my words, O ye wise men; and give ear unto me, ye that have knowledge.



Psalm 119:66 Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.



Proverbs 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;



Proverbs 8:10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.



Proverbs 10:14 Wise men lay up knowledge: but the mouth of the foolish is near destruction.



Proverbs 20:15 There is gold, and a multitude of rubies: but the lips of knowledge are a precious jewel.



Ecclesiastes 7:12 For wisdom is a defence, and money is a defence: but the excellency of knowledge is, that wisdom giveth life to them that have it.


I could post all the verses, but with it occurring 169 times, that is too much to post.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 12:29 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Kind of like how Jesus said some pretty things and lead a bunch of jews astray, leading them to his personal little cult? Cults are just off shoots of major religions that have yet to gain major acceptance. Christianity was considered a cult until it became vastly popular and people just had to accept that other people are going to have other beliefs, as you do now. And no bit of anecdotal evidence like the story in your OP can change that. Don't worry though, just because some people like to read the bible without being told how to interpret it by some oh so holy organization of blood and flesh men does not mean you or anyone is in danger.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 04:49 AM
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The template for knowing God was set out very clearly in the scriptures by Yahoshua.He asked his disciples...

.Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that you are John the Baptist: some, Elijah; and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets. He said to them, But whom say you that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

And Yahoshua answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also to you, That you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Yahoshua the Christ.

He asked them who the people though he was.They gave the stock religious answer from the scriptures.When he asked them Peter answered.He didn't pull out the scroll of scripture and search for the answer or even quote a scripture he heard at synagogue.

Yahoshuas answer is how knowledge of God comes.It is revealed by God .That is the keys to the kingdom of the heavens.Revelation from God is how mankind will know God not studying the scriptures.There are billions of interpretations of the scriptures many of them are influenced by many other interpretations to form mass scripture web clusterf that means nothing.Christianity formed over 30,000 known sects by "studying" the scriptures and the vast majority of them barely understand the basics if even that.

Yahoshua clearly stated God is not inside a book of words when he told some pharisees..you search the scripture daily thinking that in them you have life yet you fail to come to me whom they are written of and testify of me that I might save you.".

Are the scriptures evil .God forbid...however they are not how God is known.I know people that study the bible like it is a science book and can't hear from God at all.It is just words and formulas and methods and maxims and traditions of men... nothing more,.

I know that experience well.I'm a musician.The key to being a good musician is very simple.You have to be able to "hear" music by listening.For some it is very natural.Some can even do many things without knowing what they are doing at all.They hear the music by listening then they practice their instrument with no formal training or knowledge.They are far and few between(few are chosen).The basis for us mortals is the same.Every good musician I know hears very well by listening.They may know a lot about music theory or just enough however NONE of them I know( I include myself) developed listening by a book.

My experience is the book just told me what I already heard.After I knew that I didn't need the book.It served it's purpose.I can refer to it however it doesn't reveal anything.. my listening "ear" does because if I can't hear it it doesn't matter what I learned from the book..it falls on deaf ears.

Unfortunately I know musicians that are "all" book and no ears.They fool people because they play the notes but the notes are empty inside because the player can't "hear" them.I found this same parallel with God and the book.Those that were by the book "told" others what it meant and thought they knew God from the inside by the book but were stone deaf.The vast majority of what I hear people teaching from the scriptures is deafness.

That is the nature of religion and is expected.Religion can't hear.It's sole connection is the book and rituals and method of doctrines of men.If Yahoshua himself asked them who he was they would refer him to the book because it's "scriptural"

Peter heard from God.Yahoshua said that's the key to the kingdoms of your heavens now that you know ...don't tell anyone who I am.That is completely counter to what most religious folks do.They then twist what Yahoshua said very clearly (not to tell who he is..and on more than one occasion) to something else to "justify" their theology.

If they heard the "revelation from God they would know he said proclaim the coming of the Kingdom of God into the heavens (which is ALL of mankind).THAT is the good news...period...God is the one who reveals himself to everyone.No one else can do it and a book surely can't.Yahoshua said the scriptures testified(are a witness) OF him...Yahoshua...God is salvation ...to those that can't hear of the coming of the Kingdom of God into the heavens.The scriptures have their purpose however they are not knowing God.Only God can reveal that so the hearer will "know".




edit on 14-11-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 09:11 AM
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RatoAstuto
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Kind of like how Jesus said some pretty things and lead a bunch of jews astray, leading them to his personal little cult? Cults are just off shoots of major religions that have yet to gain major acceptance. Christianity was considered a cult until it became vastly popular and people just had to accept that other people are going to have other beliefs, as you do now. And no bit of anecdotal evidence like the story in your OP can change that. Don't worry though, just because some people like to read the bible without being told how to interpret it by some oh so holy organization of blood and flesh men does not mean you or anyone is in danger.


Which religion was the Cult of Dyonisius and Artemis offshoots of?

Yes, there is danger when someone reads something outside of the cultural reference or knowing the language. David Koresh was simply misunderstood, Warren Jeffs is just a breaker of American government law, and Jim Jones was just a leader of a small community in the Guyanan jungle. Is that the new revisionism?



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


This lesson I learned in my life.

When you think you know everything, you really don't know anything at all.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes,
But he who heeds counsel is wise.



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by Rex282
 

Dear Rex282,

I rejoice that you announce that you know God. Your post was good and valuable, thanks.

I wonder if your experience is the same as everyone else's, I'm not sure that all receive the same direct revelation you seem to have. Let me try to explain.

If I were planning a trip to Buleckistan, I would first have to know that such a country actually existed. Then, being prudent, I would want to learn some of the basics; is it hot or cold, free or dictatorial, do they speak English, will they even allow tourists?

This process teaches me some of the basics to get started and even gives me a rough idea of the country. I know enough to judge whether I still want to go, and what might be expected of me when I arrive. When I finally do get there, live in the country, I will know it much more completely than I ever did before.

I see the same in approaching God and Jesus. Reading the Bible, its commentaries, and history, prepares me for the trip that puts me in a position to experience the real thing. It also, by the way, allows me to more fully understand the Bible and what people have said about it.

I think both are essential, and that in most cases the Bible, or someone talking about it, comes first and is a necessary first step.

But I may have misunderstood you. In that case feel free to correct me.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 02:43 PM
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charles1952
reply to post by Rex282
 

Dear Rex282,

I rejoice that you announce that you know God. Your post was good and valuable, thanks.

I wonder if your experience is the same as everyone else's, I'm not sure that all receive the same direct revelation you seem to have. Let me try to explain.

If I were planning a trip to Buleckistan, I would first have to know that such a country actually existed. Then, being prudent, I would want to learn some of the basics; is it hot or cold, free or dictatorial, do they speak English, will they even allow tourists?

This process teaches me some of the basics to get started and even gives me a rough idea of the country. I know enough to judge whether I still want to go, and what might be expected of me when I arrive. When I finally do get there, live in the country, I will know it much more completely than I ever did before.

I see the same in approaching God and Jesus. Reading the Bible, its commentaries, and history, prepares me for the trip that puts me in a position to experience the real thing. It also, by the way, allows me to more fully understand the Bible and what people have said about it.

I think both are essential, and that in most cases the Bible, or someone talking about it, comes first and is a necessary first step.

But I may have misunderstood you. In that case feel free to correct me.

With respect,
Charles1952


...and is Buleckistan, a 'real place' Charles1952?

Å99



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 02:55 PM
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akushla99

charles1952
reply to post by Rex282
 




...and is Buleckistan, a 'real place' Charles1952?

Å99


That's the point Charles1952 was making. If someone says "Let's go there" and if you don't know already, and you assume it does just because someone tells you, and you go to the travel agency to book your flight and they laugh at you because the place doesn't exist, then probably you should have learned that first, instead of the hard way.

BTW, have you ever been snipe hunting?


edit on 11/14/2013 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 02:57 PM
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Lazarus Short
No, seriously, remember that no Scripture is of private interpretation. If someone throws something new into the mix, we need to step back, think it through, and discern if this new thing fits with the whole. Since God has laid it all out for us already, anything new will probably not fit, unless it is a long-suppressed truth which is coming into view again. The salvation of all (aka, Universal Reconciliation) is one such LST.


What scripture are you sourcing?



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 02:59 PM
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WarminIndy

akushla99

charles1952
reply to post by Rex282
 




...and is Buleckistan, a 'real place' Charles1952?

Å99


That's the point Charles1952 was making. If someone says "Let's go there" and if you don't know already, and you assume it does just because someone tells you, and you go to the travel agency to book your flight and they laugh at you because the place doesn't exist, then probably you should have learned that first, instead of the hard way.

BTW, have you ever been snipe hunting?


edit on 11/14/2013 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)


Do you really think so WII?

Drill down a little further...

Å99



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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To all,

I'm sorry my post caused so much confusion. I'm going to have to put a more careful rein on my metaphors. Please allow me to say again, directly.

I reject the idea that private revelation is a sufficient dependable guide for finding God or His Son, Jesus. The Bible is invaluable in that it tells us about God and Jesus. It provides an idea about Their characters and life, it gets us familiar with Them, and encourages us to go to Them in prayer. From that point, prayer, revelation, and the Bible work together to bring us ever closer to a fuller realization of Their essence until we, I hope, see them face to face.

I'd be happy to clear up any other confusion, and apologize for causing this one.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 03:16 PM
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charles1952
reply to post by Rex282
 

Dear Rex282,

I rejoice that you announce that you know God. Your post was good and valuable, thanks.

I wonder if your experience is the same as everyone else's, I'm not sure that all receive the same direct revelation you seem to have. Let me try to explain.

If I were planning a trip to Buleckistan, I would first have to know that such a country actually existed. Then, being prudent, I would want to learn some of the basics; is it hot or cold, free or dictatorial, do they speak English, will they even allow tourists?

This process teaches me some of the basics to get started and even gives me a rough idea of the country. I know enough to judge whether I still want to go, and what might be expected of me when I arrive. When I finally do get there, live in the country, I will know it much more completely than I ever did before.

I see the same in approaching God and Jesus. Reading the Bible, its commentaries, and history, prepares me for the trip that puts me in a position to experience the real thing. It also, by the way, allows me to more fully understand the Bible and what people have said about it.

I think both are essential, and that in most cases the Bible, or someone talking about it, comes first and is a necessary first step.

But I may have misunderstood you. In that case feel free to correct me.

With respect,
Charles1952


Yes it looks like you understood the basics of what I said.I clearly stated the scriptures have a purpose.It is a testimony for those that can't hear...and like your map once you have settled in to "Buleckistan" the map becomes less necessary and when you "know" your way around then not necessary at all but a hindrance.If you need to study the map every time just to get back home ...if you are consulting the side notes of the scenery but have seen it thousands of times you must not have "seen" it.I suggest something is seriously askew.The map is not Buleckistan.The more you use it the more dependent on it you become.It gets tattered around the corners and coffee stains that obscure what it said and since your memory is poor you'll read into the map what isn't there and eventually be more lost than when you started.The analogies of the map are legion.

The map is not evil.It has a purpose.You may still refer to it when you are someplace you are not familiar with however to attend to it slavishly even though it is correct is abandoning the reason you read the map in the first place.To get somewhere.The fact is you could explore the city without the map..it may take longer however I bet there are many things not on the map at all.They can only be discovered by experiencing them.

Again this is not much different than my experience with music.I could hear it straight away.Some of it was way over my head(okay a lot of it!) other things ..I just heard.I figured out a few guitar pieces that were decades beyond my novice capabilities.I didn't know I was tackling level 8 when I was at level 1...I'm glad I didn't know or I would have never attempted it! I knew that to keep this up I needed more background so I went to university.Music theory came easy to me(its very simple math even though I hated math)..and then the next epiphany came....I couldn't hear the same.The rules were stopping up my ears.Everything was being filtered through them.There was a "rule" for EVERYTHING and it was TMI !!

The irony was ..I could hear the majority of the "rules" it was the "keeping" of them that I stumbled over.Then one day it seemed as if my ears suddenly became unplugged.The rules were still there however I already heard them so they weren't rules anymore they were just what I did and heard.It opened my ears even more to revert back to my "just hear" days.Notes were just notes.Any of them were up for grabs.It was possible to make any note sound good if you heard it...and I also knew how that worked in relationship to the rules.When I studied the notes they told me when and what to play or hear.Now my ears do.. and any note is just as valid as another as long a I can hear it.

Please don't mistake that for "whatever I subjectively believe is objectively true..it was ...I could hear what was true.That is what Yahoshua meant when he said....The Kingdom of God comes WITHOUT observation it is neither here nor there it is IN your midst...in your heavens.It starts as a seed that was sown by God and that seed is God...Yahoshua Gods salvation...the living word of God.The book is not the living word of God....it is a testimony(witness) of the seed.The book doesn't sow seeds ...God does.When the seed is sown in soil(your heavens) it grows.When the soil is fertile the seed produces a good tree that reaps good fruit(more seed of it's kind).

The good news is God is doing it all man only receives (experiences). That is what Yahoshua proclaimed.He never compelled the disciple to "study" the book.He didn't have "bible studies" of the Torah.The fact is the disciples didn't understand ANYTHING he taught.They experienced it later when their "ears" became open...and it wasn't by studying the scriptures still.Everything mankind can know of God (communion) is by revelation ... hearing the living word of God.That is a million quadrillion light years from religion or even the book...I hope that clarifies what I wrote.



edit on 14-11-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



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