The Cash-Landrum suppressed government file

reply to post by CardDown

Good article, good defense.

Jerome Clark? Barf. He's been such a mixed bag of wrong and foolish over the years that someone really needs to do a thread--or blog post ahem--on just what an idgit he is. The long list is rather spectacular in scope.

He should be the LAST one offering such a shameless, baseless critique and then should preface anything with, "I have been fooled so many times over the years, and floated so much B.S., that I consider myself an expert."

1ofthe9

JadeStar

1ofthe9

If you want something more hardcore than Pluto, check out Project Orion and Deep Space Force. Coca-Cola helped with the bomb handling mechanism.

Project Orion was not designed to be something flown in our atmosphere.Nor was it ever anything close to being built. It was just a design study, albeit further along than something like Project Longshot.

Orion was to be a space assembled interstellar probe. In short it would have been propelled by lighting off H-bombs behind it.

Had the Cash-Landrum incident been Orion then they would have been killed instantly along with most of their county and beyond.

Oh no. I wasn't proposing it was an Orion.

Just that it was a cool concept to explore if you're into that sort of thing.

It was actually intended to be ground launched; it was only when NASA became interested near the end of the program that you saw things like lofting and space assembly.

Yeah because the weight would have required a crazy huge booster rocket and there was a concern of a major catastrophe if it had failed so breaking down into multiple missions took away that risk and single point of failure.

Pardon my excitement, but Holy $#/+!

Martin Willis of UFO Podcast just announced that he's obtained a commitment from the reclusive Colby Landrum to come on the show and discuss his experiences in the Cash-Landrum case in "the next two or three weeks".

betaplayer.radio.com...

I (Curt Collins) was supposed to be part of a show along with Chris Lambright (a secondary original investigator). Martin mentioned the chance of Colby joining us, but I thought, "yeah, right".

I'm really jazzed about this and now the challenge will be to shut up and let Colby talk. This is big!

Martin's site is Podcast UFO

More details to follow when available!

CardDown
Pardon my excitement, but Holy $#/+!

Martin Willis of UFO Podcast just announced that he's obtained a commitment from the reclusive Colby Landrum to come on the show and discuss his experiences in the Cash-Landrum case in "the next two or three weeks".

betaplayer.radio.com...

I (Curt Collins) was supposed to be part of a show along with Chris Lambright (a secondary original investigator). Martin mentioned the chance of Colby joining us, but I thought, "yeah, right".

I'm really jazzed about this and now the challenge will be to shut up and let Colby talk. This is big!

Martin's site is Podcast UFO

More details to follow when available!

edit on 17-11-2013 by CardDown because: funny typo

Great to hear! If you need a hand with anything, let me know and I'll see what I can come up with.

The GUT
reply to post by CardDown

 

Good article, good defense.

Jerome Clark? Barf. He's been such a mixed bag of wrong and foolish over the years that someone really needs to do a thread--or blog post ahem--on just what an idgit he is. The long list is rather spectacular in scope.

He should be the LAST one offering such a shameless, baseless critique and then should preface anything with, "I have been fooled so many times over the years, and floated so much B.S., that I consider myself an expert."

I'd be really curious to see this list. I have his UFO Encyclopedia, which is a really great reference, but I'm not so certain I agree with his conclusions on things. I know he doesn't seem to like Vallee's Control System stuff - but I haven't really decided what his personal grand narrative of UFOlogy is. Is he a psycho-social guy?

reply to post by 1ofthe9


Due to a perhaps misplaced character reference, Jerome Clark may have been unfairly maligned in this conversation. However, I have know problem with fairly maligning him, he surely has it coming.

Despite the venom coursing through his veins, he was able to strike up a friendship with my pal Jim Moseley and I was able to use an insightful quote by him to illustrate an important point about the case.

Q. (Re: UFO reporting) "At what point does a dramatic portrayal become fiction?"

JC: "When you start making stuff up."

Thanks for that, Jerry!

My apologies for failing to read the blog post correctly and mistaking the quote as being from Jerome Clark.

My opinion on Jerome stands, however. Like 1ofthe9, I have enjoyed some of Mr. Clark's stuff over the years, but I've come to feel that, mainly, he's very selective in his "facts" where it suits him. And he's slung a lot of mud himself.

The following is another of many reasons why I consider him a poor ufologist:

...For the meeting on October 3 in New York City, Hopkins flew in his close friend Jerome Clark from Minnesota.  Under the sway of Hopkins, Clark strenuously urged that outsiders cease investigations, thus seemingly trying to reinforce Hopkins' earlier "order" (despite the fact that the case already had been reported in the Wall Street Journal, Omni, Paris Match and the television show Inside Edition).  Clark (1992a) later committed his position to writing, saying that this case may indeed involve a world political figure and have international consequences.
   
Andrus and Clark are arguably the two most influential figures in U.S. ufology.  Andrus is International Director of the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), and he organizes the largest annual conference on UFOs in the country and regularly writes for MUFON's monthly magazine.  Clark is a columnist for Fate magazine, editor of International UFO Reporter, vice-president of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, and author of books and even an encyclopedia on UFOs.  Because of their eminence, their statements should be of special concern to the UFO research community.
   
At the meeting on October 3, the kidnapping and attempted murder of Linda were discussed.  We informed Hopkins and the other participants that we were prepared to make a formal request for a federal investigation of the government agents responsible for the alleged felonies.  Hopkins, Andrus, and Clark appeared to literally panic at the suggestion.  They vigorously argued against making such a request.  We could only conclude that they wanted to suppress evidence of attempted murder.  We wondered why…

www.tricksterbook.com...

Tu Carddown. Just joined this site with particular interest to the Cash /Landrum case.
Two points that bother me. Schuessler's total control, & pushing the UFO side of it. Not divulging medical records & why the extreme interest from a NASA propulsions expert.
The trial was thrown out because of Sarran's report>military denial. But why his own notes mention "100 helicopters" , & not the 23 involved. We all know USAAF personnel sign secrecy oaths regarding UFO's.
The quick re-paving of the road by un-marked trucks , & the small trees indicating removal of older as well.
Two people on your in-depth review mentioned a "Balloon" & a navy carrier dumping toxic "technology" into the Gulf. This raises Navy involvement, & we know they retrieve astronauts & NASA /Spy equipment.

Military & NASA weather balloons are common knowledge, so I started digging here.
NASA had been researching balloons for planet explorations, especially Titan, one of Saturns moons. To provide power they use RTGs. Radioisotope Thermoelctric Generators, that use Pu238 to provide electrical power & the by-product heat, can be utilised to lift the balloon. Adjustments in altitude & launch, provided by HYDRAZINE rockets using Irridium catalyst/oxidiser or other nasty acidic elements.
One or both of these would explain the radioactive/chemical symptoms. Schuessler would have been very aware of these, possibly his own pet project, hence his extreme interest in the case.
Military spying, especially high altitude, was rife in the Cold War, Project Mogul a good example. With a Nuclear power source for heat, one of these balloons could have stayed aloft for possibly years. The diamond shaped structure, for aerodynamics, containment of envelope, & possibly black faceted sides for stealth.
I am suggesting, that maybe this "stealth" balloon, had sprung a leak & was descending, & blown of course from a Gulf/Atlantic retrieval to a land operation. That means that the Chinooks may have been Navy "Sea Knights" or Marines, & would enable plausible deniability by the Army & Airforce. IT also explains why 23 were involved for Haz-Mat type containment & possible sealing of the area.
The eyewitness description fits a balloon lifting up & down till it required enough lift to rise. The rocket flames , possibly used to generate lift heat as well, would explain the reddish "glow" of the diamond super-structure( think of a small Zeppellin on end). The toxic flames & possible leak of isotopes fitting the radiation symptoms & road scorching/radiation.
If malfunctioning & loss of CCTV control, explains why the rockets were not fired till in sight of the Helo's, & took 10min to heat the balloon for lift with a possible aerial retrieval, or more desolate place away from the public eye, for a "dump" in the Gulf.
The witnesses never said they saw lights, this was created by Schuessler, the beeping however could have been a "Radiation ALARM" for the retrieval crews benefit.
I think its IRONIC how so many UFOs have been explained away as "Balloons". In this case, the "Balloon" has been explained away as a UFO > perfect for govt denial & ridicule of witnesses, even though both Sarran & Schuessler stated them as credible. A police officer witnessing the Chinooks is not in question here as well!!

Some one mentioned Doty, a definite disinfo agent. A current film "Mirage Men", implies that UFOs have been a way for govts to keep secret black projects secret. He features heavily in this film, & has been used by some in UFOlogy as a leak source. Who can you trust?
The makers of this film, are the same Team Satan/Circlemakers ,that claim to make all cropcircles. Followers in the UK have traced them to working for MI5, to bring doubt on the true circlemakers, by hoax!

My theory here is plausible,backed by evidence, & highly likely as a spying platform that is far less expensive than satellites or U2/SR71 overflights. At near space altitudes,they would be hard to shoot down, & atomic powered by isotopes could remain aloft indefinately. Denial as spying platforms, is easy as a NASA high - atmosphere research balloon. If malfunctioning, easy to destroy over oceans. I think this is the "one that got away".
LOOK INTO: Radioisotopes & propulsion of NASA planetary balloons, Hydrazine rockets & RTGs

reply to post by deano44

Welcome aboard, deano! You'd be happy to know that your analysis of the UFOs flight behavior agrees with that of aviation expert, Curtis Peebles. He also notes the described size and flight actions, hovering, floating, drifting etc. most closely match this of an airship or some kind of balloon. Obviously it doesn't answer many of the alleged physical issues, but as we have seen, those facts are also cloudy.

I hope someone here can check in to your suggestions about the exotic NASA balloon projects and fuels. Its beyond me, and I'm pulled in other directions. Thanks much for checking into these other possibilities.

CardDown
I (Curt Collins) was supposed to be part of a show along with Chris Lambright (a secondary original investigator). Martin mentioned the chance of Colby joining us, but I thought, "yeah, right".

I'm really jazzed about this and now the challenge will be to shut up and let Colby talk. This is big!

Martin's site is Podcast UFO

That's great Curt. It will be very interesting to hear what Colby has to say (and you and Chris Lambright as well!).

When the details are firmed up, please let us know when the podcast is likely to be available.

CardDown
Just published online, a 36 page PDF from the Texas Department of Health’s Bureau of Radiation Control file on their investigation of site radioactivity in Cash-Landrum UFO case of 1980.

The file contains the report of a field investigation by TDH agents, the results of their geiger counter tests and also the analysis of soil samples taken at the scene. While the results were discussed in the media, I'm unaware of any previous publication of the report itself, and certainly not of the raw files themselves.

There's an article giving background details and an index of the files at
Texas Department of Health file on the Cash-Landrum UFO case

To go directly to the files themselves, go to Cash-Landrum TDH file 36 page PDF


There's an excellent existing ATS thread on the case at An in-depth (re)view of the Cash/ Landrum case. But I felt that this news was worthy of a new thread.

The information in the files about the sighting location is fairly earth-shaking to the case. My attempts to contact the original investigators have failed, so I've chosen to disclose it publicly. This is a serious matter worthy of further investigation.

Nice post, but I thought it was a good place for request. Allot of us are on phones, tablet, slow connection and it is difficult for us to jump threads and sites to get the rest of the story. One or two small paragraphs saying hey basically the data is saying it was a hoax or it appears maybe they are suppressing info, just a brief synopsis and I could join the discussion knowing what is going on.

This would be very helpful. Thanks for the info.

The Bot

dlbott
One or two small paragraphs saying hey basically the data is saying it was a hoax or it appears maybe they are suppressing info, just a brief synopsis and I could join the discussion knowing what is going on.

The Bot

A good suggestion, I sometimes check things on my phones and have similar difficulties. The trick is to summarize without editorializing. I carry my own biases, but want people to evaluate data for themselves.

I'll try an example now, of a revised article:

The Cash-Landrum UFO instigation began as a result of Vickie Landrum's call to NUFORC, the National UFO Reporting Center. The call was taped and in the linked article, there's a link to recording of the call, and a newly added transcript of it.

In the call, the unidentified flying object is not characterized, just sketchily described. The desperation is evident in Landrum's voice, her main concern is getting some kind of help for her hospitalized friend, Betty Cash. The basic case is described, but in a much less detailed form than what appears later.

Robert Gribble passed her report on to UFO organizations and who took it from there.
Vickie Landrum's Recorded UFO Report & Transcript

deano44
Tu Carddown. Just joined this site with particular interest to the Cash /Landrum case.
Two points that bother me. Schuessler's total control, & pushing the UFO side of it. Not divulging medical records & why the extreme interest from a NASA propulsions expert.
The trial was thrown out because of Sarran's report>military denial. But why his own notes mention "100 helicopters" , & not the 23 involved. We all know USAAF personnel sign secrecy oaths regarding UFO's.
The quick re-paving of the road by un-marked trucks , & the small trees indicating removal of older as well.
Two people on your in-depth review mentioned a "Balloon" & a navy carrier dumping toxic "technology" into the Gulf. This raises Navy involvement, & we know they retrieve astronauts & NASA /Spy equipment.

Military & NASA weather balloons are common knowledge, so I started digging here.
NASA had been researching balloons for planet explorations, especially Titan, one of Saturns moons. To provide power they use RTGs. Radioisotope Thermoelctric Generators, that use Pu238 to provide electrical power & the by-product heat, can be utilised to lift the balloon. Adjustments in altitude & launch, provided by HYDRAZINE rockets using Irridium catalyst/oxidiser or other nasty acidic elements.
One or both of these would explain the radioactive/chemical symptoms. Schuessler would have been very aware of these, possibly his own pet project, hence his extreme interest in the case.
Military spying, especially high altitude, was rife in the Cold War, Project Mogul a good example. With a Nuclear power source for heat, one of these balloons could have stayed aloft for possibly years. The diamond shaped structure, for aerodynamics, containment of envelope, & possibly black faceted sides for stealth.
I am suggesting, that maybe this "stealth" balloon, had sprung a leak & was descending, & blown of course from a Gulf/Atlantic retrieval to a land operation. That means that the Chinooks may have been Navy "Sea Knights" or Marines, & would enable plausible deniability by the Army & Airforce. IT also explains why 23 were involved for Haz-Mat type containment & possible sealing of the area.
The eyewitness description fits a balloon lifting up & down till it required enough lift to rise. The rocket flames , possibly used to generate lift heat as well, would explain the reddish "glow" of the diamond super-structure( think of a small Zeppellin on end). The toxic flames & possible leak of isotopes fitting the radiation symptoms & road scorching/radiation.
If malfunctioning & loss of CCTV control, explains why the rockets were not fired till in sight of the Helo's, & took 10min to heat the balloon for lift with a possible aerial retrieval, or more desolate place away from the public eye, for a "dump" in the Gulf.
The witnesses never said they saw lights, this was created by Schuessler, the beeping however could have been a "Radiation ALARM" for the retrieval crews benefit.
I think its IRONIC how so many UFOs have been explained away as "Balloons". In this case, the "Balloon" has been explained away as a UFO > perfect for govt denial & ridicule of witnesses, even though both Sarran & Schuessler stated them as credible. A police officer witnessing the Chinooks is not in question here as well!!

Some one mentioned Doty, a definite disinfo agent. A current film "Mirage Men", implies that UFOs have been a way for govts to keep secret black projects secret. He features heavily in this film, & has been used by some in UFOlogy as a leak source. Who can you trust?
The makers of this film, are the same Team Satan/Circlemakers ,that claim to make all cropcircles. Followers in the UK have traced them to working for MI5, to bring doubt on the true circlemakers, by hoax!

My theory here is plausible,backed by evidence, & highly likely as a spying platform that is far less expensive than satellites or U2/SR71 overflights. At near space altitudes,they would be hard to shoot down, & atomic powered by isotopes could remain aloft indefinately. Denial as spying platforms, is easy as a NASA high - atmosphere research balloon. If malfunctioning, easy to destroy over oceans. I think this is the "one that got away".
LOOK INTO: Radioisotopes & propulsion of NASA planetary balloons, Hydrazine rockets & RTGs

I'm not aware of any American efforts at aerostat probes around this time - the Soviets really did a lot of the work in this area, specifically with their Vega series Venus probes. The lack of radiation at the site would also rule out an RTG accident.

However, I think you might have something in terms of hydrazine - although it smells like ammonia vs. the "lighter fluid" odor reported in the hypnosis sessions. It would certainly be easier to implement then a borane fuel. I believe that the best approach we could take would be to analyze soil samples from the sighting area, and reports from downwind. Does anyone know if chemical analysis of the soil or the car body was done?

Also the one facet of the case that I have trouble tying in with my SSTO/testbed theory is the duration of the sighting. Twenty minutes is a long time to be hopping around on a rocket engine, even if we invoke high ISP systems like air-augmentation or propellant rockets. It could imply some kind of VTOL tailsitter, but I'm not aware of any work on that particular style of VTOL after the 1950's. I have to say, the hot air balloon idea is pretty intriguing... Are we sure that it was twenty minutes, or could it just have seemed that long to the witnesses that night?

reply to post by 1ofthe9

Dealing with he case, what is not widely understood is this was a series of events. The initial encounter was a few minutes, followed by a second encounter near the cemetery, with other periods with the UFO and helicopters were visible during their trip home. Your reference to twenty minutes is about right for the entire series of encounters, beginning with the road being blocked by the UFO and ending as they paused at the stop sign on the far side of Huffman.

Here's a map of the sighting locations and additional witness locations
Cash-Landrum Route with locations and secondary witnesses
I'm trying to imbed it here, but linking too, in case.

CardDown
reply to post by 1ofthe9

 

Dealing with he case, what is not widely understood is this was a series of events. The initial encounter was a few minutes, followed by a second encounter near the cemetery, with other periods with the UFO and helicopters were visible during their trip home. Your reference to twenty minutes is about right for the entire series of encounters, beginning with the road being blocked by the UFO and ending as they paused at the stop sign on the far side of Huffman.

Here's a map of the sighting locations and additional witness locations

Thanks! That makes much more sense then the Weird Flying Thing bobbing around for 20 minutes. It might be a good idea to look into what aerospace companies would have been established in the north-east part of Houston during that time period.

1ofthe9
I'm not aware of any American efforts at aerostat probes around this time - the Soviets really did a lot of the work in this area, specifically with their Vega series Venus probes. The lack of radiation at the site would also rule out an RTG accident.

Maybe it was a Soviet object?

deano44
Some one mentioned Doty, a definite disinfo agent. A current film "Mirage Men", implies that UFOs have been a way for govts to keep secret black projects secret. He features heavily in this film, & has been used by some in UFOlogy as a leak source. Who can you trust?

deano, I'm working on a long piece that will trace Doty & Moore's connection with the Cash-Landrum case. Greg Bishop had part of the puzzle in Project Beta, but it runs far deeper and wider.

I transcribed an interview by 1984 Moore that actually gives a good overview of the case up to that point.
Bill Moore Radio Interview on the Cash-Landrum case
Behind the scenes, he (and Doty)told a whole different story, spreading stories of a secret nuclear-powered military project. Moore on that later...

More files have been added at Blue Burry Lines, including the 1st article on the case written by John F. Schuessler, The Texas UFO Traumawhich does not mention burns to the road, or the mystery re-paving. It does include a picture of the road, just an in indication of the distance of the car from where the UFO was hovering over the road.

The biggest real news is that Colby Landrum appeared on Podcast UFO for an interview that was originally streamed live. He doesn't remember the things quite the same way as John Schuessler tells the story. Colby said he wants to finally get some answers and will cooperate with a new investigation.
The programt has been posted on YouTube:

The December 29, 1980 Cash-Landrum UFO event is one of best known, thoroughly documented cases in UFO history, remembered mostly due to the credibility and sincerity of the witnesses, Betty Cash, Vickie and Colby Landrum.

On the anniversary of their encounter, last year, I posted a memorial, but this year, the discussion is about how the event itself is remembered.
Lighting a Candle for the Cash-Landrum UFO Case

a reply to: CardDown

Great work you've done on one of the absolute best cases of all time. Your good sense and good heart make you an excellent keeper of the flame, imo.

Hopefully, as your piece reflects, we do stand a fair chance of answers to this fascinating yet heartbreaking enigma. I was also pleased to see you taking a positive stance towards the validity of the helicopters and think you are on to something good with the pilots angle.