Anti-abortion extremists urge kidnapping of women on way to clinic

Nephalim

lol didn't that last comment just make you an extremist too? This is insane.

No, it doesn't.

If people are going to kidnap people, that's a crime punishable by time in prison.
Just in case anyone is unaware of what prison is all about; it's a place where a majority of choices and freedoms of choices are taken away.

Is that a difficult concept for anyone to understand?

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


It.was.a.joke.
----------------------

Thanks for the list Grim, I had no idea. Lots of other interesting things in there I didn't know about.

AliceBleachWhite

Nephalim

lol didn't that last comment just make you an extremist too? This is insane.

No, it doesn't.

If people are going to kidnap people, that's a crime punishable by time in prison.
Just in case anyone is unaware of what prison is all about; it's a place where a majority of choices and freedoms of choices are taken away.

Yet you want to punish those, even if are not quite sure it is true, to the standards you have deemed. The person you replied to is correct.

You responded with an equally "extremist" response, to an allegedly "extremist" post that has no validity save a FB post...

I would say the poster is right and your justification is wrong.

Even if it was a joke...

So are the kidnappers going to look after the child when born? or dump it on the state and make everyone pay more taxes to help the child grow up.
There are hundreds of thousands of unwanted kids in the world wanting a family...I don't see anti abortionists taking them in, until they do no one has any right to tell anyone what to do with there body.
Education is the key here (again) safe sex education that is.

ownbestenemy

Yet you want to punish those, even if are not quite sure it is true, to the standards you have deemed. The person you replied to is correct.

You responded with an equally "extremist" response, to an allegedly "extremist" post that has no validity save a FB post...

I would say the poster is right and your justification is wrong.

Even if it was a joke...

edit on 12-11-2013 by ownbestenemy because: (no reason given)

Please enlighten me as to exactly WHERE I've said people that are NOT KIDNAPPING people need to go to prison.

I meant what I said.

I made no reference to any unsubstantiated claims. If people are kidnapping people for the purpose described in OP, or for any other reason, even no reason at all, they deserve to serve prison time.

If no one is kidnapped, then there is no crime in that vein.
There may be grounds for rulings on intimidation, threat and social terrorism, but, that's another thing altogether.

Now, please, I strongly recommend paying much closer attention to what's said and how it's said.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


The thing though for me is... How can someone go sit in the capitol with coat hangars (screaming and yelling even) and not be an extremist to the other side? It sounds like there are two sides to this issue. what makes it extreme, the bombings and murders? To a pro lifer wouldn't it seem that (in their minds) killing a child is extremism or terrorism? and to those pro choice folks, the murders and bombings...

Speaking on the non extremist side (at least I hope)
You have two points of view
Pro-life can save childrens lives
abortion is a choice

Now bombing and all that, waaaaay too far but there certainly has to be some form of logical and rational decision making and compromise without either side getting so angry. It shouldn't come to violence that's for sure.

reply to post by Nephalim

Dear Nephalim,

You make a good point. Life and death is one of the most extreme issues there is. Unfortunately, where there is any serious issue a certain proportion of people will take their arguments to the level of killing. Leaving aside the question of whether abortion is killing a child, consider the mothers who die from abortion.

Remember that the Wikipedia article sourced earlier indicates that pro-life violence took eight lives in all of American history. The CDC and Allen Guttmacher Institute report that twelve women died from abortion complications in 2008 alone. Then, of course, we have the Gosnell horror.

It all makes me think that focusing on pro-abortion or anti-abortion violence should be limited to treating it as the crime that it is, and should not be used as a reason for condemning a movement. Unless, of course, it can be shown that the movement supports, encourages or tolerates the crime.

Just as a side note, I'm a little surprised that some posters seem to be convinced that kidnapping has occurred or was about to, save for the Facebook post. Maybe it did, it's possible, but no woman has come forward to complain about it to anyone. That in itself damages the credibility of the Facebook comment considerably.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


are anti-abortionist extremists dangerous ? - what would George Tiller say - if you could ask him ?

reply to post by ignorant_ape

Dear ignorant_ape,

I'm sorry that my writing wasn't clear. One of my main points was that any group has it's extremists, and if the issue is perceived as vital, those extremists may very well resort to violence. I believe I pointed out that eight individuals had died because of pro-life violence. Does that clarify my thoughts sufficiently?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by Nephalim


Saving a child by kidnapping the mother?

Really?

Two wrongs making a right?

I'm not a big fan of abortion on demand, but neither am I a fan of kidnapping.

reply to post by seagull

Dear seagull,

Please note, there are very good reasons to believe the anonymous Facebook post, unsupported by any complaints by any women, is a hoax, or false flag.

With respect,
Charles1952

I am sorry if my OP was misconstrued but to my knowledge no women have been kidnaped the supposition was there was a call to arms if you will to infiltrate and kidnap women. Since it has come to light he group it was reportedly attached to has denounced the behavior. However the clinic does remain on alert and is being cautious taking the announcement seriously.

reply to post by Grimpachi

Dear Grimpachi,

Nice to have a chance to talk with you again.

My comments were directed primarily to those posters who seemed to think kidnapping had already occurred.

I applaud the clinic for taking steps to make sure they don't accept the services of those who intend to sabotage their operations. (Although, I don't know how they could tell if the volunteer is lying.)

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Good seeing you here as well.

I know you were not directly responding to me but I felt I should clarify seeing as how I wrote the OP.

Honestly I don’t know what precautions they are taking but I think if they used a phone protocol for pickup and if they didn’t show in a prescribed time without some sort of notification then it would be cause for concern and possible notification of authorities. My idea is very basic but I am sure it could be expanded upon.

The idea that someone presented that to the group is bad enough but whoever did it has to be unhinged to some degree.

Raxoxane
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Yes this is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard.I hate abortion too,because birth control Is available,and self-control Is available till you managed to avail yourself of birth control-there should not even be a need for the horrible act of abortion anymore,with some exceptions like health issues to the mother that may make it life-threatening to carry to term.But you cannot change a person's mind by kidnapping them to try+change their minds! How did they think they would get away with this,I wonder.

yeah, it's way stupid idea.

it's a felony to kidnap.

seagull
reply to post by Nephalim

 

Saving a child by kidnapping the mother?

Really?

Two wrongs making a right?

I'm not a big fan of abortion on demand, but neither am I a fan of kidnapping.

Yea id say if you think kidnapping ANY Texan is a walk in the park, you don't know Texans very well, and you know even less about our women.

whats up with the question.

reply to post by snowspirit


Most are preformed in a doctor's office or hospital. The clinics are for the poor who lack health benefits . Their clientele are mostly teens and young women without resources. Politicians are trying to make it so a woman has to first look at the fetus via ultra sound before allowing her to get the procedure. Madness.

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by snowspirit

 

Most are preformed in a doctor's office or hospital. The clinics are for the poor who lack health benefits . Their clientele are mostly teens and young women without resources. Politicians are trying to make it so a woman has to first look at the fetus via ultra sound before allowing her to get the procedure. Madness.

isn't the appeal to emotion a leftist tactic?

Grimpachi
reply to post by Nephalim

 

Here is a list.


Anti-abortion violence

The latest murder was 2009.

pro abortion violence,

100's of 1,000's of babys a day....

reply to post by AutumnWitch657

Dear AutumnWitch657,

There's something in your post which I don't understand and I'd appreciate it if you clarified it for me. This is where I'm having trouble:

Politicians are trying to make it so a woman has to first look at the fetus via ultra sound before allowing her to get the procedure. Madness.

I was under the impression that the trend was toward a more informed consumer of goods and services, not a less informed one. We want GMO foods labelled. We're demanding calorie and other nutrition information on restaurant menus and grocery store products. We produce videos showing what actually happens at meat processing plants. My doctor was perfectly willing to show me where my cancer was, because we demand that patients give fully informed consent before we perform a procedure.

Yet showing a woman what actually exists in her is madness?

I must be misunderstanding you. I like the idea of empowering women, and other people, to make fully informed decisions as far as those decisions comply with the law. Don't you? Could you explain what you meant, please?

With respect,
Charles1952