What Encrypted Forms of Speech Can Work Against Spying?

Our citizens in the States and others around the world are under surveillance and the topics of government spying and personal privacy are social issues that are finally coming into the public spotlight. Governments, corporations, private businesses and even citizens are using spy tech to invade anyone and everyone's privacy.

Because of all this spying, I have been giving some thought on ways to use language to encrypt messages.

Because of the fact that technology can interpret text and convert speech to text, and translate the language, it makes most conversations understandable to surveillance. Any text, type, print or spoken words can be analyzed for flagged words and phrases, including any slang (probably even made-up words) that might be used.

So how can people hold a private conversation without a spying agency being able to process the information being conveyed?

I remember many of the subculture code words that came out of the 1970s and how that changed in the following decades. The old subculture code became slang in common usage after awhile. So a code word language would be understood rather quickly and put into the data base.

Using double talk or other language techniques are well know and also of no real use for a private exchange of information.

Using a coded language like carnival speak or pig Latin is easy to crack, no good doing that.

It seems like any system one could devise to protect the private exchange of information during a conversation can be deciphered. The best idea I could come up with would be to use standard conversations like, “How’s the weather over there?” or “The family cat died” that are tied to some other meaning. A set of correlations would be figured out eventually, so some type of lose correlations would have to be used in creative ways to keep them guessing. If too many people knew the correlations and how they were used, that knowledge would get leaked and a new system would be needed.

I know it's a sad thing to have to think of ways to encrypt our conversations to keep them private, anyway, just some of my thoughts on this subject.

What are some of your thoughts on this ATS members?

I value your opinions on this subject and thank you for your input.

Yet to be cracked communications:



Perhaps the only safe way.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Yeah Baby Talk! That should work!

The thing is that even if you used a language that they couldn't understand or figure out, just it's use would put up a flag.

Or even better than that, use most women way of talking when they want or don't want something.

That should do the trick.

reply to post by MichiganSwampBuck


The only sure way is to use a wrapper with a key that's not written down anywhere.

Legally they can't force you to divulge anything that's in your head.

RAR encryption is one of the better encryptions to use as well as PGP.

if you want to use languages. some of the overseas obscure languages might be a way to go.

reply to post by MichiganSwampBuck

Try using pretty good encryption ( pgp or gpg) encrypt all communications with this using a long pass phrase. Search google for instructions, I find gpg4usb the easiest to use. This is the best practical solution to you issue
gpg4usb.cpunk.de...

reply to post by MichiganSwampBuck


OTP = one time pad , a crypto method that can only be compromised by loss of the pad

MichiganSwampBuck

The thing is that even if you used a language that they couldn't understand or figure out, just it's use would put up a flag.

edit on 2-11-2013 by MichiganSwampBuck because: typo

Damned if you do, damned if you dont. It wont be long before cops are kicking in peoples doors for having the curtains closed. Cant see into your house so you must be doing something illegal.

A text file inside of a truecrypt container would work just dandy. Would have to come up with a kind of password scheme I suppose. I have my own algorithm system I use to encrypt everything, that is in my head, each file has a unique password, with a length of 40+ characters. Mixed case, numbers and symbols. It would take like a million years to brute anything on my system lol.

MichiganSwampBuck
Our citizens in the States and others around the world are under surveillance and the topics of government spying and personal privacy are social issues that are finally coming into the public spotlight. Governments, corporations, private businesses and even citizens are using spy tech to invade anyone and everyone's privacy.

Because of all this spying, I have been giving some thought on ways to use language to encrypt messages.

Because of the fact that technology can interpret text and convert speech to text, and translate the language, it makes most conversations understandable to surveillance. Any text, type, print or spoken words can be analyzed for flagged words and phrases, including any slang (probably even made-up words) that might be used.

So how can people hold a private conversation without a spying agency being able to process the information being conveyed?

I remember many of the subculture code words that came out of the 1970s and how that changed in the following decades. The old subculture code became slang in common usage after awhile. So a code word language would be understood rather quickly and put into the data base.

Using double talk or other language techniques are well know and also of no real use for a private exchange of information.

Using a coded language like carnival speak or pig Latin is easy to crack, no good doing that.

It seems like any system one could devise to protect the private exchange of information during a conversation can be deciphered. The best idea I could come up with would be to use standard conversations like, “How’s the weather over there?” or “The family cat died” that are tied to some other meaning. A set of correlations would be figured out eventually, so some type of lose correlations would have to be used in creative ways to keep them guessing. If too many people knew the correlations and how they were used, that knowledge would get leaked and a new system would be needed.

I know it's a sad thing to have to think of ways to encrypt our conversations to keep them private, anyway, just some of my thoughts on this subject.

What are some of your thoughts on this ATS members?

I value your opinions on this subject and thank you for your input.

Simple, one word, truth. You expose spying which should not be something allowed on this planet and make it criminal for being hypocrisy.



Thruthseek3r

MichiganSwampBuck
Our citizens in the States and others around the world are under surveillance and the topics of government spying and personal privacy are social issues that are finally coming into the public spotlight. Governments, corporations, private businesses and even citizens are using spy tech to invade anyone and everyone's privacy.

Because of all this spying, I have been giving some thought on ways to use language to encrypt messages.

Virtually any communication that passes thru communication nets can be broken if the bad guys want in bad enough. Normal operating systems like Windows, MacOS and Linux can be opened up like a tin can if the bad guys so decide. That would make the only secure communication face to face contact away from *any* electronics(1).

Since they are really working towards making our world a "prison planet", perhaps the best defense ... is a good offense. Perhaps we need to wrench open the details on their operations, their personnel, their assets ... and release everything to the public.


(1) a sign of the nightmare to come:

China is spying on you through your KETTLE: Bugs that scan wi-fi devices found in imported kitchen gadgets
aconservativeedge.wordpress.com... dgets/

Thanks for all the replies, all good stuff.

The encryption of text, email or even electronic voice communication is one thing, but I would like to hear more about "open air" conversations in public or in a private setting under surveillance. How can these be coded or encrypted in such a way that the listener thinks that they are just mundane conversations?

Avoid flagged keywords for sure, no matter what. Include references to subjects or events that only the person you're talking to could interpret a meaning from. Stuff like that is what I was trying to get at.

This font makes it a little harder for software to "read" what you have typed. If you used a form of coded language AND typed it in this font that is unreadable to most screen-readers then... well I dont know... they probably have freaking psychic dolphins working at the NSA so maybe its futile, but at least the font looks cool though

z-x-x.org...

Here is a video explaining how it works:

vimeo.com...

reply to post by MichiganSwampBuck


I would guess a white noise generator for open air under suspicion of eavesdropping scumbags.

Personally I don't give a # anymore. I am openly defiant, I refuse to sneak around and hide anymore. Someone don't like it, well it's no secret where I am. They can come try and get me if they like lol.

MichiganSwampBuck

It seems like any system one could devise to protect the private exchange of information during a conversation can be deciphered. The best idea I could come up with would be to use standard conversations like, “How’s the weather over there?” or “The family cat died” that are tied to some other meaning. A set of correlations would be figured out eventually, so some type of lose correlations would have to be used in creative ways to keep them guessing. If too many people knew the correlations and how they were used, that knowledge would get leaked and a new system would be needed.

I know it's a sad thing to have to think of ways to encrypt our conversations to keep them private, anyway, just some of my thoughts on this subject.

What are some of your thoughts on this ATS members?

I value your opinions on this subject and thank you for your input.

Okay, so here's the danger. I just saw a guy on CNN saying "the bad guys use code words, talking about normal things, to arrange terror acts." The amazing thing this does, is it takes ordinary conversations about normal things, and makes them suspect. At a certain point, asking “How’s the weather over there?” could be enough to get you taken in, if a terror attack soon followed... Even if you were just asking about the weather. And of course, mass surveillance of normal conversations becomes routine after the advent of these handy codewords. In short its a dream for the surveillance apparatus and hides little. Notice how the "family cat" thing provides a justfication for watching people even closer, knowing the state of their pets, etc.

If you want to have secret messages study encryption and use it. There are shared key encryption schemes the government can't crack (google "one time pad")

tridentblue

Okay, so here's the danger. I just saw a guy on CNN saying "the bad guys use code words, talking about normal things, to arrange terror acts." The amazing thing this does, is it takes ordinary conversations about normal things, and makes them suspect. At a certain point, asking “How’s the weather over there?” could be enough to get you taken in, if a terror attack soon followed... Even if you were just asking about the weather. And of course, mass surveillance of normal conversations becomes routine after the advent of these handy codewords. In short its a dream for the surveillance apparatus and hides little. Notice how the "family cat" thing provides a justfication for watching people even closer, knowing the state of their pets, etc.

That's what I''m talking about, of course I can see your point, that they have considered this idea already and can use it. However, it would be hard to connect a question about the weather to a preplanned illegal act.

I must say that I'm not thinking of covertly communicating any such acts, just wondering how to circumvent any raised flags that may pop up in my daily conversations. Given what you have put forth, that would seem be hard to do. I can get paranoid enough talking about anything with people that have an interest in politics and what have you.

I've been giving some thought to body language and hand signs/gestures, the sort of things that secret societies do. Of course, if your having a verbal conversation and the surveillance is only getting the audio, then you could do anything, even write something down and hand it to the person while talking about everyday things.

In public or in a audio/video surveillance situation, you won't be able to act strangely or suspiciously, so perhaps something like the following could work.

Use subtle clues such as the color and type of clothes you are wearing combined with a hand shake style during a mundane sounding conversation that has a correlation to other topics. If you and the person have a shared understanding of the meanings used and how they are conveyed, it could be improvised on in any situation and still be understood. This is along the lines of how gangs communicate things like affiliation and street deals, but on a far more subtle level.

Perhaps a custom sign language could be used in public. You seem to be talking to a deaf person and will probably be ignored. Of course if someone who understands sign language tries to interpret it, it will seem like gibberish and would get flagged, so you would have to be out of view for the most part.

Just another couple of ideas to throw out there and thanks for all your replies.

To expand on a gestural form of physical communication:

You could come up with a system where the two people in conversation use a series of "stances" and VERY simple gestures to convey meanings.

For example you could use your fingers to obviously convey numbers and multiples of those... but you could also use various sections of your body to convey basic sounds or words or even whole phrases.

Kinda like sign language, but much slower and more casual - with a lot less gesturing!

For Example: if I am standing with my hand on my collar bone it means I am in need of help. Then if I move that same hand to my hip on the same side it means the danger is close.... and if I move that same hand to my heart it means its someone we know... etc... Of course this would all have to be well thought out and shared with both parties in advance, but I think a system like this would be really cool.

Basically two guys standing in a park talking to each other from yards away, but they look like they are just bored!

You could even incorporate props like your hat or book or umbrella!

reply to post by henryleo


Thanks Henry, this is exactly what I'm thinking about, a system of subtle gestures that can be used to convey a variety of meaning. Add other clues, like a certain type or color of hat, scarf, gloves, etc. that add to the context of the secret conversation. Throw in some conversational code words or subjects and some very complex information can be exchanged without being flagged.

Still, it is really sad that we would have to act like secret agents to hold a private conversation in public (or just about anywhere) these days.

reply to post by MichiganSwampBuck



You could try a product like TrustSleeve - it transforms a regular iPhone or Android phone into a "secure phone" by ensuring others can't intercept or eavesdrop on voice calls and SMS messages. The product houses and acts as an adaper between the phone and a TrustChip wich is basically a self-contained hardware encryption engine. Because the TrustChip is self-contained, it is insulated from threats that can reside in mobile devices and other platforms. Here is a video from Fox's Business After the Bell, that demonstrates the TrustSleeve in use: www.koolspan.com...