It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Obama signs executive order creating the Council on Climate Resilience

page: 2
<< 1   >>

log in


posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 07:16 PM
reply to post by webedoomed

Also, you're a bit out of your mind here. This chart is in thousands of years...

Of course it is. It shows how incredibly STABLE the Holocene climate has been so you can thank goodness for mankind's interference or what ever the heck has made it so stable. It also shows the climate oscillates WITHOUT any help from mankind and overall we are COOLING.

SIGH, As I said I am a bit too technical.
I am showing EXACTLY what Dr. Brown was talking about, CHAOS THEORY and Strange Attractors. There are TWO STABLE STATES, Hot and Cold and the climate switches between these two "Strange Attractors" rapidly. That is my entire point plus the fact we are possibly headed toward glaciation and it can happen in LESS THAN A DECADE.

The rest is back up from peer-reviewed papers.

I will try it again:

This is the Gradual cooling trend of ~1.5C from the Holocene Optimum. Greenland GSIP2 Ice core, 10,000 years. This is five Million years constructed by combining measurements from 57 globally distributed deep sea sediment cores. (O18) Lisiecki and Raymo (2005) Note the switch to Ice Box Earth. Some think it was caused by the present alignment of the continents. The Isthmus of Panama closed and Drakes passage opened. This completely changed the world wide ocean circulation. Note the temperature oscillations are going from 2C to 8C as we go from five million years ago till today with absolutely no interference from mankind. This is natural climate and IPCC has to PROVE something changed and the current minor change 0.3C(?) is some how different.


A new approach for reconstructing glacier variability based on lake sediments recording input from more than one glacier

We explore the possibility of building a continuous glacier reconstruction by analyzing the integrated sedimentary response of a large (440 km2) glacierized catchment in western Norway, as recorded in the downstream lake Nerfloen (N61°56', E6°52'). A multi-proxy numerical analysis demonstrates that it is possible to distinguish a glacier component in the ~8000-yr-long record, based on distinct changes in grain size, geochemistry, and magnetic composition. Principal Component Analysis (PCA) reveals a strong common signal in the 15 investigated sedimentary parameters, with the first principal component explaining 77% of the total variability. This signal is interpreted to reflect glacier activity in the upstream catchment, an interpretation that is independently tested through a mineral magnetic provenance analysis of catchment samples. Minimum glacier input is indicated between 6700-5700 cal yr BP, probably reflecting a situation when most glaciers in the catchment had melted away, whereas the highest glacier activity is observed around 600 and 200 cal yr BP. During the local Neoglacial interval (~4200 cal yr BP until present), five individual periods of significantly reduced glacier extent are identified at ~3400, 3000-2700, 2100-2000, 1700-1500, and ~900 cal yr BP.

The authors are simply state that most glaciers in in western Norway likely didn’t exist 6,000 years ago, but the highest period of glacial growth has been in the past 600 years. No one ever bothers to mention that do they?

You can see the flip between hot and cold during glacial periods. NOAA on Heinrich and Dansgaard-Oeschger events

Another paper:

Abrupt changes in climate, termed Dansgaard-Oeschger and Heinrich events, have punctuated the last glacial period (~100 – 10 kyr ago) but not the Holocene (the past 10 kyr). Here we use an intermediate-complexity climate model to investigate the stability of glacial climate, and we find that only one mode of Atlantic Ocean circulation is stable: a cold mode with deep water formation in the Atlantic Ocean south of Iceland. However, a `warm’ circulation mode similar to the present-day Atlantic Ocean is only marginally unstable, and temporary transitions to this warm mode can easily be triggered. This leads to abrupt warm events in the model which share many characteristics of the observed Dansgaard-Oeschger events. For a large freshwater input (such as a large release of icebergs), the model’s deep water formation is temporarily switched off, causing no strong cooling in Greenland but warming in Antarctica, as is observed for Heinrich events. Our stability analysis provides an explanation why glacial climate is much more variable than Holocene climate.

Again there is the bi-stable states or two "Strange Attractors"

A more subdued version (bond event) happened during the Holocene but the temperature swing is much smaller because the eart is still in the warm phase.

Gerard Bond et al., “A Pervasive Millennial-Scale Cycle in North Atlantic Holocene and Glacial Climates,”


Evidence from North Atlantic deep sea cores reveals that abrupt shifts punctuated what is conventionally thought to have been a relatively stable Holocene climate. During each of these episodes, cool, ice-bearing waters from north of Iceland were advected as far south as the latitude of Britain. At about the same times, the atmospheric circulation above Greenland changed abruptly. Pacings of the Holocene events and of abrupt climate shifts during the last glaciation are statistically the same; together, they make up a series of climate shifts with a cyclicity close to 1470 ± 500 years. The Holocene events, therefore, appear to be the most recent manifestation of a pervasive millennial-scale climate cycle operating independently of the glacial-interglacial climate state. Amplification of the cycle during the last glaciation may have been linked to the North Atlantic's thermohaline circulation.

"Amplification of the cycle during the last glaciation may have been linked to the North Atlantic's thermohaline circulation." means the D/O events during glaciation are bigger than the Bond events during the Holocene.

posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 07:22 PM

reply to post by webedoomed

Also, you're a bit out of your mind here. This chart is in thousands of years...

Of course it is. It shows how incredibly STABLE the Holocene climate has been so you can thank goodness for mankind's interference or what ever the heck has made it so stable. It also shows the climate oscillates WITHOUT any help from mankind and overall we are COOLING.

You are having serious difficulties interpreting the data on the graph.

There doesn't seem to be a point in discussing this with you. You're too "technical" for your own good!

posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 07:33 PM
reply to post by Blowback

Article I Section I of the Constitution unambiguously states that Congress, not the executive, has legislative power. An executive order is not lawful legislation.

" An Executive Order is a policy or procedure issued by the President that is a regulation that applies only to employees of the Executive Branch of government,” notes the Tenth Amendment Center. “When a President issues an unconstitutional Executive Order and Congress allows the order to stand they are violating their oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution.”

So , it is the Body of Congress that has that Power , Not the President . By allowing the President to Issue an Executive Order without a Challenge is tantamount to a Crime against the American People who they supposedly Represent .

posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 08:57 PM
reply to post by jimmyx

let me get this straight...he isn't doing anything to stop climate change, but is asking governors and mayors to prepare for the consequences IF it does happen...and all of you are pissed off about that????...

We are spending trillions of dollars and KILLING PEOPLE based on a globalist hoax that is falling apart.

More technical stuff.

#1 The whole idea of a 'Global Temperature is bogus. Engineers and physicists laugh at the concept because you are trying to measure the heat (energy) in a very imprecise manner.

Heat transferred to a substance when temperature changes is often referred to as sensible heat. The heat required for changing state such as evaporation is referred to as the latent heat of evaporation.

When you heat a pot of water the temperature of the water reaches ~212F or 100C depending on the altitude and It STAYS at that temperature until all the water is gone even though you continue applying the same amount of heat that took the water from room temperature to boiling. This means the extra energy went into the phase change and not into changing the temperature.

Therefore a cubic mile of atmosphere at 20C with no water vapor has a LOT LESS energy than the same atmosphere with 4% water vapor. See Steam and Vapor Enthalpy

#2. Error: I will let a NASA engineer, A.J. Srata explain about measurement error. LINK If the error is 0.5 and I have two readings 1.7 and 2.1 they are considered to be statistically the same at the 2 signa level.

#3. 70% of the earth is ocean. The temperature records for the ocean are based on measurements by ships. The REASON is because Benjamin Franklin (Yeah THAT Benjamin Franklin) found that there was enough difference in temperature between currents that tossing a canvas bucket over the side and measuring the water temperature would tell you what current you were in (GULF STREAM) and you could use the correct current to increase your speed. The readings didn't have to be accurate and if you are on a ship in a storm you can bet the sailor wasn't worried about precision. On top of that you were only measuring water temp in shipping lanes and when sailing ships were replaced the method changed to using the engine room intake.

#4. The Station Drop out problem: I will let Kevin (UK) an Ex-nuclear physicist now a self employed software developer explain it. LINK

#5. Adjusting Raw Data: This large bag of worms I am not going to touch but here is a side by side comparison of three GRAPHS of Hansen's GISS data.

Now comes the "Technical problem"

# 6. The global temperature is calculated by "griding" the data and then "Kriging." Again I am going to let an expert explain the problem LINK

Given all these problems with temperature, I looked at a different method of determining the climate, PLANTS! The Köppen climate classification, a widely used vegetation-based empirical climate classification system.
Here is the US mid west: GRAPHS Note the 1930's and 1900's are the hottest decades.
edit on 2-11-2013 by crimvelvet because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 09:00 PM
The private interest that runs the government can not have enough of crapping on the tax payer in the nation while stealing the middle class wealth.

They now want more and why not, they are the ones that in charge.

Bend over more tax payers, the rich do not have enough they want more.

posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 09:04 PM
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

So invest in green businesses?

Think 1933 and the shearing of the sheep.

EDIT: Gack I must be getting tired I cant hit the right keys!
edit on 2-11-2013 by crimvelvet because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 2 2013 @ 09:12 PM
reply to post by webedoomed

You are having serious difficulties interpreting the data on the graph....

Are you BLIND? The DARN graph has a LINE DRAWN from the Holocene Optimun til now showing the drop.

BTW, If I have trouble with graphs I strongly advise you NOT to ever ever get onto any airplanes since I was in charge of the QC lab for turbine blades for Pratt and Whitney and GE aircraft engines

Oh and while you are whining about the change in solar energy causing no change in the temperature, Think about this:

When the impact of CO2 is viewed as part of the NET energy transfers from the surface to the atmosphere, it is only 3% of the total while the energy from the sun has dropped 9%, a factor of three.
(The present minimum is 474 W/m2. )

Temperature and precipitation history of the Arctic

Solar energy reached a summer maximum (9% higher than at present) ~11 ka ago and has been decreasing since then, primarily in response to the precession of the equinoxes. The extra energy elevated early Holocene summer temperatures throughout the Arctic 1-3°C above 20th century averages, enough to completely melt many small glaciers throughout the Arctic, although the Greenland Ice Sheet was only slightly smaller than at present. Early Holocene summer sea ice limits were substantially smaller than their 20th century average, and the flow of Atlantic water into the Arctic Ocean was substantially greater. As summer solar energy decreased in the second half of the Holocene, glaciers re-established or advanced, sea ice expanded...

QUOTE from Dr Brown at Duke University

....The last “interesting” piece of evidence is that the Little Ice Age, occurring in apparent coincidence with the Maunder Minimum, was the coldest period in the entire Holocene post the Younger Dryas fluctuation, and occurred as global temperatures had been gradually decreasing from the Holocene optimum for thousands of years. This large temperature excursion in response to what may have been a relatively minor variation in a primary driver (the Sun) strongly suggests that the Earth is either entering or is already solidly into the bistable regime where sufficiently sustained fluctuations can drive it nonlinearly towards the cold stable state, quite possibly drive it “rapidly” in that direction...

....the Ordovician/Silurian transition, wherein the Earth entered an ice age, relatively rapidly, in spite of having seventeen times the atmospheric CO2 content that it does now when it began, and in spite of sustaining it at ten times the current concentration for the entire period the ice age lasted...."

edit on 2-11-2013 by crimvelvet because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-11-2013 by crimvelvet because: (no reason given)

new topics

top topics

<< 1   >>

log in