The Adonai Conspiracy. One God to Rule Them All.

reply to post by AsherahoftheSea


It would seem that nearly all of the world's religions and nearly all
of the world's spiritual systems in some manner, shape or form
attempt to convince us that human life in the real physical world
is garbage and that humans as they are now, are garbage and need
to functionally be 'erased' (saved, implanted with a spirit, remade,
enlightened, transcended, escaped from, are really an illusion, etc.)

Does this sound sane?

As a result of this, the tendency has been to abuse the Earth and to
abuse the innocent children (humans) until the both the human
race and the Earth are so torn up, so abused, so depleted, that
nearly everyone it seems believes in evil, and so many want to
believe that demons and reptoids and arkons and what not are
in charge of things.. are the cause of things.. all with the hope
that these evil forces will finish taking over, so all this madness
can be made to stop.

People don't tend to believe in goodness.. as they can't see it
exist in the world.. and it doesn't seem to exist in the world,
because at a basic level, everyone is hypnotized to believe
that they are already trash.. and need a forklift upgrade to
be worth a damn for anything.

Whether good or evil exist or not is besides the point.. the
beliefs wired into the human minds are so powerful.. that
evil becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy --- even if it doesn't
exist in the first place.

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


You think evil does not exist? I do find this very common today that most people seem to think good or evil does not exist, and fight to maintain a balance of these notions, claiming neutrality or that they are above good and evil now. But truly if the current balance is in favor of corruption, what other balance is being maintained but a negative one? Thus these alleged "neutral" people are not really neutral in my opinion, but work in favor of things remaining as they are.

Child sodomy, sadism, rape, murder, abuse, unnecessary cruelty, and the list goes on. You can't say these things are in any way right or neutral things in the least.

Whatever is to blame -- whether the alleged "supernatural" exists or it is just poor programming resulting from the sloppiness of evolution, I cannot look at the world and call it "good," in any fashion.

If you think there are not at least people who exist who are what you call "evil," in the sense that they get a real sense of joy out of causing others grief, hardship, and harm, then you're in for a surprise. A nice way of them smiling at what they do is to simply deny "evil" exists.

"It makes me happy, so it can't be wrong," such people think.

reply to post by AsherahoftheSea


I didn't say that evil doesn't exist. I didn't even say that supernatural
evil does not exist. And I fully acknowledge that the world appears
to be shot full of evil, and that little if any good appears to exist here.

As a matter of fact, if you read my other posts, you'll read that I've
personally faced planet-class evil of a so-called 'supernatural' nature.

All that said, the real nature of evil in the world is at once completely
obvious and completely hidden in plan sight.

KPB

Also, I think the argument that good and evil not existing actually undermines the argument of God being good even further. If good and evil does not exist, why would there be a tree of knowledge of good and evil in the first place? Did God just say: "I'm seriously gonna # with these people because I am creating knowledge of a concept that does not exist, and since I know everything, I already know they are going to eat from it, thereby millions of generations of people are going to go through a bunch of hell, wherein I'll damn even others I already know are going to choose "evil" to hell and give them no second chance whatsoever, damning them eternally, which by comparison to their lives will be but a microsecond."

Whether the Hebrew God exists or not, you can't really say his character is one that you would call "good," in any manner that you analyze him, IMO.

You could argue that he is beyond good and evil. Some say unconditional love is beyond good and evil, but you can't really say this god loves us unconditionally if Hell exists in the first place.

Responding to every issue that arises with unconditional love would likely fail. The tenacity of evil uses love as a weakness and would destroy you for embracing them as a comrade.

AsherahoftheSea

Whether the Hebrew God exists or not, you can't really say his character is one that you would call "good," in any manner that you analyze him, IMO.

I can certainly understand your statements about the Hebrew God.
I researched the origins of the Old Testament too.. I think that many
people on ATS have done that. I certainly don't think much of
the prophet Elisha calling upon the Lord to have angry bears
maul innocent children to death for making fun of his bald spot.
I don't think much of the mass genocides; the mass rapes; the
endorsement of slavery; the trading of women like cattle;
the endorsement of incest by multiple patriarchs. I don't care
for any of that.

I think it's fair to say that most people, whether religious or
not, either don't read the Old Testament (oftentimes by
the advice of their pastor -- mine recommended that back
40 years ago..) or shudder when asked about it and at best
say, "it's a mystery" or "that was the old covenant" or something
of that nature.

I myself don't see any value in comparing various symbols with
each other (good/evil/God/Lucifer/Satan/Jesus/holy man
of choice). I really don't care which symbol is which.. Symbols
are not the reality.. and the symbols have been so corrupted
they no longer serve any useful function.

If humans are to be 'rescued from evil', then the battleground
is to understand the true enemy -- the memes which suck all
the life out of people and turn them into trash, when in fact
they are just innocent animals like all the others.

Now if you wish to wage combat on your terms -- in the manner
of the Gnostics and other modern groups --- I can understand
why you would want to do that.

For me, if a person is completely bamboozled by memes, that
doesn't mean that I might not be able to reach them with
love and kindness... but that possibility won't exist, if I call
their God Evil, or their Savior the Devil. Well it probably
doesn't exist no matter what I do.. once those memes get
embedded it's nearly impossible to communicate to a person;
the 'memes' defend their foothold and the person has basically
no free will; they are owned lock stock and barrel by the
memes, while they make all this noise about supernatural
evil, which few people ever actually have to encounter -
others fight their battles for them.

Well, it's late.

KPB

reply to post by AsherahoftheSea

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


I just came across something for you two:

-Albert Einstein
“God did not create evil. Just as darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of God.”

Does God Exist? did God Create Evil? Albert Einstein True Story
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnUOLbHRQ8E
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by AbleEndangered



Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.

God admits himself that he makes evil in your own book.

He doesn't say he SENDS evil. He says he CREATES it.

Edit: another interesting thing to note is the word usage. He FORMS light, but does not CREATE light. Formation does not necessarily mean creation, and can denote the manipulation of a substance already existent to form something from it. Then he CREATES darkness. He MAKES peace, but is not the SOURCE of peace. Making peace can simply be the cessation of inflicting war or harm on others. And he then CREATES evil.

reply to post by AsherahoftheSea

AsherahoftheSea
reply to post by AbleEndangered

 

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.

God admits himself that he makes evil in your own book.

He doesn't say he SENDS evil. He says he CREATES it.

Edit: another interesting thing to note is the word usage. He FORMS light, but does not CREATE light. Formation does not necessarily mean creation, and can denote the manipulation of a substance already existent to form something from it. Then he CREATES darkness. He MAKES peace, but is not the SOURCE of peace. Making peace can simply be the cessation of inflicting war or harm on others. And he then CREATES evil.

Daniel adds to the evil thing with this:

Daniel 9:14 KJV
Therefore hath the Lord watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the Lord our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.

I wonder if the "form" has to do with Particle/Wave Duality. That is interesting.

Isaiah vs Einstein...

reply to post by AbleEndangered


But that Daniel verse also fits with a malevolent god, IMO, cause he creates the evil, he claims his word is the only Truth, and he will send that evil upon you if you do not obey and blindly accept his words.

Blind obedience is the command of a tyrant. Rather than punish you by sending evil to afflict you, why can't he try to reason it through with you? Cause pain = bad, pleasure = good. The main argument God often uses is: "I AM GOD, YOU CAN'T QUESTION ME! I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE THE BEGINNING! I CREATED EVERYTHING!" We can argue the book of Job too if you want, but I believe that this is an example of enforcing blind obedience, accepting abuse from your master to the most horrific of degrees, reducing us to abused dogs for a master's pleasure, because in the end, you're told you'll be rewarded more than ten fold for being obedient through all hells you've been put through. If the reward is all you're after, is the heart in the right place? Similarly, if one day there is a rapture and you're one of the lucky ones, is your heart in the right place if all you want to do is look at those left behind and say: "I told ya so!"? I could not dwell in heaven if hell exists, knowing what others suffer though to the point where they might be truly sorry and still are made to suffer.

AsherahoftheSea
"I AM GOD, YOU CAN'T QUESTION ME! I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE THE BEGINNING! I CREATED EVERYTHING!"

Einstein was quoted as saying "that the field is the sole governing agency of the particle". That field could be another name for God.

We can argue the book of Job too if you want, but I believe that this is an example of enforcing blind obedience, accepting abuse from your master to the most horrific of degrees, reducing us to abused dogs for a master's pleasure, because in the end, you're told you'll be rewarded more than ten fold for being obedient through all hells you've been put through. If the reward is all you're after, is the heart in the right place? Similarly, if one day there is a rapture and you're one of the lucky ones, is your heart in the right place if all you want to do is look at those left behind and say: "I told ya so!"? I could not dwell in heaven if hell exists, knowing what others suffer though to the point where they might be truly sorry and still are made to suffer.

The suffering is that there is a resistance to what is happening. The field is controlling it all but there is an idea that there is 'individual freewill' - the one that fights with what is causes existence to be experienced as hell.
When the arising of existence (always now) is just seen to be arising unconditionally the suffering ceases.

Itisnowagain

AsherahoftheSea
"I AM GOD, YOU CAN'T QUESTION ME! I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE THE BEGINNING! I CREATED EVERYTHING!"

The suffering is that there is a resistance to what is happening. The field is controlling it all but there is an idea that there is 'individual freewill' - the one that fights with what is causes existence to be experienced as hell.
When the arising of existence (always now) is just seen to be arising unconditionally the suffering ceases.

Say my destiny is that I am supposed to kill myself by age 30, or sometime immediately after turning 30. I resist because I know only through life I might find any success, regardless as to whether my life is hell. I fight for what I feel is right, but the hell never lets up, but yet I still fight on, defiant to the last stand, I say. If I simply accept that this is an arising condition and I truly have no freewill, I die. You can argue that in death I will find peace, but that is not a proven or known fact.

IMO, you are saying that devolving into a state of apathy is the answer. To not care what happens, whether to me or others, cause this is just the state of things and I should not resist to change them. To just accept status quo and drift like a leaf on the wind, even if I am caught in a hurricane and I am actually in a glider that can (hopefully) be guided by my own mechanization to safe harbor outside the storm, or maybe into the calm center. Yes, the wind resists, and it pummels you to pieces, but navigating outside of it should not be abandoned.

AsherahoftheSea
Say my destiny is that I am supposed to kill myself by age 30, or sometime immediately after turning 30. I resist because I know only through life I might find any success, regardless as to whether my life is hell. I fight for what I feel is right, but the hell never lets up, but yet I still fight on, defiant to the last stand, I say. If I simply accept that this is an arising condition and I truly have no freewill, I die. You can argue that in death I will find peace, but that is not a proven or known fact.

Notice that the mind is looking for a way out. The arising is the thoughts telling stories of what will happen or might happen - see what is arising - telling stories about a person in time. The thoughts are talking about who? The thoughts just arise - all part of the scenery.

IMO, you are saying that devolving into a state of apathy is the answer. To not care what happens, whether to me or others, cause this is just the state of things and I should not resist to change them.

It is not about developing anything - it is just seeing that all is just arising and it is not anything to do with you. It is the responsibility of feeling like you are the manager of life (you are not) that makes you want to escape. It can be seen if one stops wanting life to appear different. It will miraculously appear different when one is not so attached to what happens as just being a witness to all that arises. Trying to do it right or make everything better makes life pretty heavy. See that it is ok as it is just as it is.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


No, because revolution and change would have never been possible in the past if the great thinkers in history had thought that way. If you support a system where corruption is its main attribute, even if you do not realize its corrupt nature, you are not neutral in the battle -- you're part of the problem.

Many people often say: "Get with the program." Which program would that be, now? The one that is killing this world?

If you look out over the world and universe and are not disturbed, I think something is wrong with you.

Either that, or you're someone who knows what you're talking about and you're just trying to make me "Lie down," like an obedient little dog.

AsherahoftheSea
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

No, because revolution and change would have never been possible in the past if the great thinkers in history had thought that way. If you support a system where corruption is its main attribute, even if you do not realize its corrupt nature, you are not neutral in the battle -- you're part of the problem.

Change never stops.
I do not support any system.

AsherahoftheSea
If you look out over the world and universe and are not disturbed, I think something is wrong with you.

Reality is miraculous but the mind will only find problems with it - that is why man suffers.

Peace does not feel wrong. Conflict does though.

AsherahoftheSea
Either that, or you're someone who knows what you're talking about and you're just trying to make me "Lie down," like an obedient little dog.

Einstein was quoted as saying "that the field is the sole governing agency of the particle". Any ideas on what that could mean?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


The field is "God" the particle is "me," and you have basically suggested I have no free-will at all.

If I have no free-will, then why do I even have the ability to resist the things I have? I have chosen conflict. You might argue that I have not chosen it, cause I have no free-will, and that the choice is simply an arising of sorts governed by God or the "field." However, this means that conflict is something generated by the field, and suffering is also generated by the field, because nothing has free-will and is governed by the field. Yet you say suffering only happens when you resist the field. Yet, this cannot be, as many natural arisings of suffering happen everywhere. Look at nature. Look at it. The animals and our web of life. Can you not hear the shrill sound of screaming in the background noise? Could not the field change that? Or does the field have no free-will either? Yet, it "governs," does it not? If it has no free-will then it is governed by chaos, and only intelligence can work to bring order to chaos. Yes, conflict is disturbing, conflict causes suffering, but it is better to know distress and conflict than to be at peace with a world and universe like ours.

AsherahoftheSea
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

The field is "God" the particle is "me," and you have basically suggested I have no free-will at all.

You would have to argue the point with Einstein - he suggested it.
Jesus said the same.

The 'me' is just a dream of separation. The 'me' appears in God and is ultimately moved by God. When the 'me' illusion is seen through then it is all seen to be arising unconditionally - even the 'illusionary me'. It is the illusion that there is a 'me' separate to what is happening that creates the suffering.

It is just one pretending to be more.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Remember that when someone comes and inflicts some kind of damage upon you then. It is "God" inflicting damage upon itself. How does VNV put it in their song Entropy?

"Abusing love and, like a child,
Inflicting pain upon itself"

I sometimes view earth as one body, but a body who's cells are programmed to breed out of control and attack and kill each other is not a healthy body. It is cancerous, and infectious. If you're fine with that, that is not just your problem, its all of our problem.

You've already given up yourself in exchange for paradise. So now all you see is paradise in the midst of hell.

Edit: You can maybe argue that to experience paradise in Hell is to allow yourself to fall into the sway of corruption and become demonic so that you might enjoy the satisfaction of preying on others. Trust me, there are beings out there that experience EXTREME satisfaction for harming others. It is practically what they live for. Thereby, you have gotten with the program and no longer experience misery, because it is bliss to cause harm and not be the one receiving it. Or perhaps program yourself that you like having damage inflicted upon you. But you toss away morality and integrity entirely and become something that only lives to satisfy itself.

AsherahoftheSea
You've already given up yourself in exchange for paradise. So now all you see is paradise in the midst of hell.

There is just what is happening - arising unconditionally - aliveness is.
Paradise is either lost or found.
Only when one is stuck with the sense of separation does it seem like hell - been there.