Video Evidence of US War Crimes in Falluja

As much respect I have for sub-human Islamofascist life (none), the fact remains that this guy may have broken the law, and regardless of who was the "victim" of his actions we still have to hold ourselves to standards of conduct.

And the truth is we don't know what happened or why, but we do know that if this man broke the law he will be punished, unlike the Islamofascist pigs who have broken every law in the book in every disgusting way imaginable, and will suffer no retribution except, God willing, at the hands of our soldiers should they be dumb enough to engage us in combat. We already know the man most responsible, Zarqawi, fled the scene like the hypocrite and the coward he is.

Why anyone, after the hammer fell on the clowns who disgraced us at Abu Ghraib, would think this man would not be punished is just unbelievable. Put away your pitchforks.

War crimes is relative.
This incident will be reviewed and action taken against the personnel responsible. Thank you for your duty to 'humanity' there, Mokuhadzushi. Btw, where are you and those famous Human Rights groups at when the so-called 'insurgents' are doing the many actions they do that can be considered and tagged as "war crimes," hmm? As par, and as with your past commentings, your 'selecto-vision' is still functioning as directed by the manufacturer....
You, and others, scream and protest on one extreme and YET fail each and every time to condemn those on the other extreme. You reck of what is "just and right, and all that is good," and again, fail to remember a little creedo that goes like this: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". You, and others, can interpret this as you wish, but I certainly can tell you how that Marine interpreted it!

Whether they signed up on to the Geneva Covention's or not, they reaped what they sowed.

Fact is, this is the brutal and 'unseen' reality of close-in warfare and combat. Despite only seeing one aspect of the total picture and passing judgement, most of you running your 'lips' need to put it into the framework of the larger picture. Geneva Convention or not, you booby-trap dead bodies to explode when troops or civilians come to bury them, you play 'dead' or 'wounded' so as to draw out US forces, etc., etc., there is no doubt that such occurrances have and will take place.


seekerof

[edit on 16-11-2004 by Seekerof]

I'm not sure which link the thread author provided, because I have him on ignore.

This is the unedited, raw video:

Rueters

Be sure to listen to the Marines' official statement following the video.

Doesn't look good for this guy. I can't say I blame him, given the tactics of the insurgents, but it doesn't look like the man he shot was a threat. He'll probably be prosecuted.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by Ibn Iblis]

Of course having never been in combat you wouldn't understand anything about being in mortal danger and what it does to your central nervous system.

And of course, I have never seen you respond to the crimes commited by these thugs on a daily basis.

The news was awash with news of the insurgents having wiped out an entire family just two days ago.

Where were you then, Zero?

Hey Relax!
You tellin' me about combat buddy? How much o' combat have you seen? The bottom line is that some Marines are a bunch of trigger happy nerds who need to be put through the grinder. All these excuses of insurgents wiping out entire families etc and thus the-lets-screw-them policy just goes to prove that the Marines are as uncivilised and barbaric as the insurgents are. I thought there was a vast difference between Americans and those so called Muslim Jihadis. But killing of unarmed civs is downright cowardice to say the least. The Marines should get trained in India by the crack Indian Army which has four decades of experience in counter insurgency ops. And they don't teach you to kill unarmed civs. Period.



[edit on 04/11/16 by GradyPhilpott] :

Originally posted by OpenMinded

One young Marine stressed out from days of house to house combat, who was himself wounded the day before, who has seen his friends killed by insurgents faking death and bodies rigged with explosives, makes an error in judgement and the whole world is yelling "War Crimes."

Grady, you took the words right out of my mouth!! These SOB's are doing everything imaginable to kill us, then one US soldier screws up and we're the bad guys. Rest assured the US press will make this event THE story of the week. Never mind these thugs have been killing our guys left and right...WE'RE the bad guys! These "insurgents" want to make Iraq and the entire globe a Muslim dictatorship with "Allah" at the head and them doing his dirty work. Give me a break! I have an idea for the peacenicks on ATS...let's stick our heads back in the sand just like the Clinton years and ignore the rest of the globe. If we don't p!ss them off, they won't bother us...never mind they kill women and children daily to suit their needs. If it's not happening in the CONUS, it ain't happening! Naieve at best...sad at the very least.

But wasnt that one of the reasons to go into Iraq in the first place. Because Saddam was commiting war crimes against his own people.
The US is doing everything in its power to kill these people so why the hell cant they fake dead and wait for an american to walk up to him and kill the little f*cker. Its only right and just for them to fight a war against the biggest killing machine in the world. So spare me the BS of its unfare and they are fighting dirty. Is'nt droping bombs on a city killing innocent civilians unfare. The US has killed more civilians in Iraq than the insurgens have since this war began.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
That's irrelevent Grady. The U.S. does not only advocate against such measures such as the Geneva Accord, but uses it against other countries; these 'enemies' are not a 'nation', per sa, and did not sign a contract that warrants them to abide by such war measures.

Anyone with the intelligence of a ham sandwich would have noticed that the United States investigates and prosecutes its war criminals, Zero.

Of course having never been in combat you wouldn't understand anything about being in mortal danger and what it does to your central nervous system.

And of course, I have never seen you respond to the crimes commited by these thugs on a daily basis.

The news was awash with news of the insurgents having wiped out an entire family just two days ago.

Where were you then, Zero?





[edit on 04/11/16 by GradyPhilpott]

Hey Relax!
You tellin' me about combat buddy? How much o' combat have you seen? The bottom line is that some Marines are a bunch of trigger happy nerds who need to be put through the grinder. All these excuses of insurgents wiping out entire families etc and thus the-lets-screw-them policy just goes to prove that the Marines are as uncivilised and barbaric as the insurgents are. I thought there was a vast difference between Americans and those so called Muslim Jihadis. But killing of unarmed civs is downright cowardice to say the least. The Marines should get trained in India by the crack Indian Army which has four decades of experience in counter insurgency ops. And they don't teach you to kill unarmed civs. Period.




[edit on 16-11-2004 by Scramjet]

Originally posted by ZeroDeep

Once again: "INSURGENTS ARE NOT PARTY TO THE GENEVA CONVENTION" !!!!

How hard is that to understand? The U.S. military should act in a civilized manner in situations as such, while taking precautions, but this has not been the case numerous times.

Deep

Well you know the Geneva Convention only applies if the 2 sides have signed or agreed to it. As the insurgents don't respect it the US is under no obligation to abide by it either.

ARTICLE 2 of the convention

Art. 2. In addition to the provisions which shall be implemented in peace-time, the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them.

The Convention shall also apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party, even if the said occupation meets with no armed resistance.

Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations.They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

So Zero you are actually arguing for the US, as you have pointed out the insurgents have not signed it.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by Yarnos]

Ok, thats it. This young Marine's life is over because of onesided "rules" of War? Saddam murdered hundered of thousands. Oxymoron "Rules of War" and "War Crimes?". War is barbaric. This kid (marine) has every reason in the world to be terrified. But it won't do any good, he's toast, he will be made and example of "just to be PC".

Rem: a picture is worth a 1000 words, lets wait for the words. War sucks, been there done that. Ever been handed a live grenade by a 9 years old child? I have. God told Joshua to kill every living thing when he liberated the holyland. God was right.

"Kill'em all let God sort them out". Good words to fight a war by!

[edit on 16-11-2004 by DrHoracid]

I was listening to some lady ramble on the radio awhile back complaining that the youth in our country was letting things like MTV guide their voting....(oh,my!!!) Simply her position was that they were too "immature" to vote. We've got these same 18 and 19 years olds coming back to us in body bags...and well, one of these "immature" kids freaks out and mistakenly shoots someone....WHO'S FAULT IS THAT???
God, they are kids, just a year or two before, they were happily in a high school with their friends, without a care in the world!!! And, over half the population apparently don't see any problem with sending them into this kind of environment. I'm sorry, but the only crime this person made probably was being young and not so experienced in life......the real crime was sending them there to begin with!!!

Leave the troops alone...they are following orders to the best of their ability!!

Why don't some of you take a minute to imagine life in this young marines boots before you rush to pass judgement upon him. They are strapping bombs to dead bodies over there. They get very little sleep especially the troops involved with the assault on Fallujah. I'm with some of you on the whole Abu Ghraib thing that was just sick and those IDIOTS deserve to pay. But when it comes to imagining myself being this marine with little sleep entering a mosque where dead bodies are known to be strapped with bombs and one of them starts to move I'm probably going to do the same thing. How do you know the body isn't holding some kind of detonator?

This is what gets me the most. This is a horrible thing, no doubt and it needs to be inverstigated. But what gets me is for every video you can show me of a Marine doing this, I can show you 10 of Terrorists in Iraq beheading, shooting, and otherwise killing foreigners. But there are a couple of people on these boards that will take only select things that the Americans do and scream atrocities. So blinded...So hypocritical..

Originally posted by skippytjc
This is what gets me the most. This is a horrible thing, no doubt and it needs to be inverstigated. But what gets me is for every video you can show me of a Marine doing this, I can show you 10 of Terrorists in Iraq beheading, shooting, and otherwise killing foreigners. But there are a couple of people on these boards that will take only select things that the Americans do and scream atrocities. So blinded...So hypocritical..

So true.

But I think I have them figured out.

See, it's our fault for being there, so anything they do to us, no matter how heinous, is OK, and every little thing, every isolated incident on our part only adds to our crimes.

Meanwhile I can prove beyond doubt that their reasons for believing we don't belong there--unless it is unadulterated pacifism--are all wrong.

Actually, I spent a few days in the weeks leading up to the election proving them wrong.

mindfilter.net...

It's the (R) after Bush's name, really.

At this point wether we should be there or not are moot. (I dont think we should have gone btw). But the cold hard fact is we ARE there and things will not get better until fighting stops. And like it or not, its not going to stop until any "insurgents" or "freedom fighters" stop, because GWB wont stop, ever. So...no matter what SHOULD happen or have happened, the bottom line is we need to get past the fighting so rebuilding can start.

While the fire is burning hot on this thread: What do some of these people think about "Freedom fighters" sniping thier own people waiting in line for food and supplies? Where are the huge rant threads regarding this? But a US marine shooting an actual fighter is the only thing they can seem to find wrong with all of this.

Man I need to move to Pluto....

[edit on 16-11-2004 by skippytjc]

U.S. Marines Rally Round Iraq Probe Comrade
Email this Story

Nov 16, 9:27 AM (ET)

By Michael Georgy

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. Marines rallied round a comrade under investigation for killing a wounded Iraqi during the offensive in Falluja, saying he was probably under combat stress in unpredictable, hair-trigger circumstances.

Marines interviewed on Tuesday said they didn't see the shooting as a scandal, rather the act of a comrade who faced intense pressure during the effort to quell the insurgency in the city.

"I can see why he would do it. He was probably running around being shot at for days on end in Falluja. There should be an investigation but they should look into the circumstances," said Lance Corporal Christopher Hanson.

"I would have shot the insurgent too. Two shots to the head," said Sergeant Nicholas Graham, 24, of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. "You can't trust these people. He should not be investigated. He did nothing wrong."

The military command launched an investigation after video footage showed a U.S. Marine shooting a wounded and unarmed man in a mosque in the city on Saturday. The man was one of five wounded and left in the mosque after Marines fought their way through the area.

A pool report by NBC correspondent Kevin Sites said the mosque had been used by insurgents to attack U.S. forces, who stormed it, killing 10 militants and wounding the five. Sites said the wounded had been left for others to pick up.

A second group of Marines entered the mosque on Saturday after reports it had been reoccupied. Footage from the embedded television crew showed the five still in the mosque, although several appeared to be close to death, Sites said.

He said a Marine noticed one prisoner was still breathing.

A Marine can be heard saying on the pool footage provided to Reuters Television: "He's #ing faking he's dead."

"The Marine then raises his rifle and fires into the man's head," Sites said.

NBC said the Marine, who had reportedly been shot in the face himself the previous day, said immediately after the shooting: "Well, he's dead now."

THOROUGH PROBE PROMISED

The Marine commander in Falluja, Lieutenant General John Sattler, said his men followed the law of conflict and held themselves to a high standard of accountability.

"The facts of this case will be thoroughly pursued to make an informed decision and to protect the rights of all persons involved," he said.

Marines have repeatedly described the rebels they fought against in Falluja as ruthless fighters who didn't play by the rules. They say the investigation is politically motivated.

"It's all political. This Marine has been under attack for days. It has nothing to do with what he did," said Corporal Keith Hoy, 23.

Rights group Amnesty International said on Monday both sides in the Falluja fighting had broken the rules of war governing the protection of civilians and wounded combatants.

Gunnery Sergeant Christopher Garza, 30, favored an investigation but like other Marines said the Pentagon should weigh its decision carefully.

"He should have captured him. Maybe the insurgent had some valuable information. There may have been mitigating circumstances. Maybe his two buddies died in Falluja," he said.

Sites said: "I have witnessed the Marines behaving as a disciplined and professional force throughout this offensive. In this particular case, it certainly was a confusing situation to say the least."

The U.S. military has been embarrassed by scandals in Iraq, most prominently the Abu Ghraib affair in which at least eight U.S. soldiers have been tried or face courts-martial over the abuse of prisoners at the jail outside Baghdad.

There have also been several cases in which soldiers have been charged with wrongfully killing Iraqis during operations.

reuters.myway.com...

Ill be the first person to say this (bring on the flames): I kind of agree with the Marines rallying behind him. The circumstances need to be taken into account. It still may have been a crime and treated as such, but we must take into account stuff that isnt always captured on video.

But it wont matter. The video is in the worlds eye's now. That soldier is toast no matter what the situation actually was. Heck, that soldier could have thought the guy was about to denonate a bomb and it wouldnt matter at this point. To the world all they will see is whats on the video, nothing else going on that wasnt captured simply wont make any difference....

[edit on 16-11-2004 by skippytjc]

I saw the video. It is definately NOT evidence of war crimes.

The war crimes that are being comitted are by the insurgants.
THEY are the ones faking surrender, faking death, faking injuries
and then blasting our soldiers who ARE following the rules of
engagement.

The video shows our guys going up to two bodies and shooting
them. Considering that our guys have been falling victim to
the war crimes of the insurgents ... the prudent thing to do was
to shoot the dead guys.

If any truly wounded insurgents are being mistakenly shot, it's
their own fault. If their comrads, who are in Iraq illegally,
weren't commiting war crimes, then the US soldiers wouldn't
be shooting those who look wounded or dead.

For anyone to say that the video is of our guys shooting
and killing those truly wounded, I say you have an inventive
imagination. The video shows nothing of the sort.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
God told Joshua to kill every living thing when he liberated the holyland. God was right.

I find the above frame of mind just as frightening as any extremist muslim. Makes you wonder what the difference is between these 2 fanatical sides.

Also, I see a lot of you wondering where people's outrage was when the terrorists were committing atrocities and war crimes. Well firstly, as another poster pointed out so clearly, when did they sign up for the Geneva convention? Secondly, we expect them to do this...some are fanatical terrorists, some are desperate insurgents. What do you expect?

I understand that combat would cause stress. But the question is what was this guy doing on the battlefield if he couldn't handle it? Get the best people for the job I say.

As for US forces not following the Geneva convention because the insurgents/terrorists arn't, you are just showing your simpleton side there. Yeah, sucks to come from the civilised free world doesn't it?

Video evidence of a possible US war crime in Iraq. Of course there is no doubt that the enemy commits war crimes on regular basis, but what the hey. They're the enemy.

Go watch the video Grady, violence breeds violence.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by electric squid carpet]

Grady:

Anyone with the intelligence of a ham sandwich would have noticed that the United States investigates and prosecutes its war criminals, Zero.

Haha! They didn't even sign up for the International Criminal Court because they are afraid to get caught for all the war crimes they habitually commit.

Didn't the US military just admit they have been using napalm even though it is a banned weapon? Oh right, they did. Guilty.

Aren't they shelling a civilian city of 300,000? Oh yeah, that's a war crime too. Depleted Uranium? See above.

I'm of the mind that if a soldier blows away a wounded, unarmed soldier, he should be tried and punished. No excuses. He murdered that guy, in cold blood.

This is ALL over the Arab media, and this will only add to the anger towards Americans, resulting in more and more people going over to the insurgents' side.

That you're defending coldblooded murder is no surprise to me at all, though.

It is illegal to booby trap the dead, but that's what the insurgents do. It is illegal to surrender and then open fire, but that's what the insurgents do.

? Illegal? Are they supposed to be following specific "Urban Warfare Rules Of Engagment"? What a frickin whiner you are. "They aren't following the ruuuuuuules, waaaah!"

This is murder, and will be tried as such. I saw the footage on BBC World last night, and it was stomach-turning. This will inflame TONS of people against the occupiers, even moreso than Abu Ghraib.


Sad, so sad.

jako

Originally posted by skippytjc
While the fire is burning hot on this thread: What do some of these people think about "Freedom fighters" sniping thier own people waiting in line for food and supplies? Where are the huge rant threads regarding this? But a US marine shooting an actual fighter is the only thing they can seem to find wrong with all of this.

Man I need to move to Pluto....

Again, that's our fault.

If we weren't there, Saddam would still be in power, and these jihadists would be normal, law-abiding Iraqi citizens. Our media wouldn't be there showing his sons tossing people feet-first into the shredder, out of sight out of mind.

Ignorance is bliss.