Police shoot 13 year old carrying fake rifle.

roadgravel
reply to post by Biigs

 

This is probably why Holder wants all police to be militarized SWAT. They can drive around in fortified vehicles but it won't change the carnage, at least it don't think it will.

TBH if that means they DO NOT SHOOT UNLESS SHOT AT then im actually okay with this morally - one boy in particular would be home safe, in big trouble sure, but alive and well.

The problem is that all cops have this "do not mess AT ALL" attitude they really need to shake to get the trust back.


You dont see any articles that read: Cop shot twice in bullet proof armor, calms mental patient down and arrests him safely.

do you?

reply to post by Biigs

The problem is that one of them has to leave to vehicle to apprehend the subject so we are back at square one.

IMO, it won't change the mindset.

reply to post by roadgravel


you arnt wrong.

Bigger guns, harsher policy's are getting people killed - so time for a tactic change? *thats what I'm getting at, as unrealistic as it is*

reply to post by Biigs

Like so many other situations, it will not get better until it gets much worse. Sad.

dragonridr:

So murder and other crimes are caused by paranoid people with guns?

Obviously, you think you are making a rebuttal to my statement...

No. In the cities, the gun is owned to defend against people. This leads to the inescapable conclusion that city gun owners believe their city to be a violent one? How strange then that other dwellers in the same cities do not feel the need to own a gun. Perhaps, the former is paranoid, the latter too trusting?

...it was rather disingenous of you not quote that which you fail to rebut.

The context, which you casually ignore because it doesn't serve your point, is that gun owners, particularly in cities, and not your professional or career criminal, own guns out of fear and for the sense of empowerment they bring. Akin to a child holding a toy gun in bed at night, his imagination allowing a sense of empowerment whilst holding the toy against the dark. Love your avatar!

cavtrooper7:

You have no idea evidently.

Actually, I do, but unlike you, I don't resort to fantasy to explain the causes, and I am not in denial. You most certainly are!

This gun problem has exploded since progressives took over SSRIs and other pharmacopia have been abused and the fact of gun ownership came under attack.

What planet are you on? So, according to you the cause of America's gun problem (at least you manage to call it what it really is) is drugs, antidepressants? Thanks for the input, you are very amusing.

If we stop America dies all all of YOU with it .

I'm sorry, what? What? Would you like to clarify what you mean? I'm sat here scratching my head in bewilderment. Please talk sense, not none-sense! Ta.

I dont understand how the police can constantly ramp up, whiling claiming things arnt working and then ramping them up more.

This isnt working and hasnt work for 50 years.

So guess what..... EVEN MORE will make the problem EVEN WORSE.

Free people dont like a police state because it makes them feel less free.

They are acting like every small town should be able to respond to a helicopter full of terrorists to drop on their down and be able to defend it. Which is totally crazy nuts.

reply to post by blackthorne


The family needs to be thoroughly compensated and the deputy punished to the maximum extent of the law...

also, legislation should make guidelines for toy guns to be easily distinguishable from the genuine article.

This whole thing is such a waste of lives on both sides; it's just ridiculous.

reply to post by elysiumfire


I am 53,live IN the US,a military trained scout and an expert marksman.
And you?
I used to wear a pocket knife to school then the satety hawks swooped in and so has the political leanings of hippies due to the fact they infest higher learning,then most of the lawyers.
Then they stopped spanking kids so they essentially do not have respect for a damn thing. THEN they started FORCING parents to drug unrully children ritalin and doctors began giving SSRIs out like CANDY even though that should ONLY be done by a psychiatrist.
Throw in the internet where every one knows every thing and suddenly everyone thinks America is all gun crazy mostly because they probably think we all are any way.
As to your final question you would have to be versed in who is really at the helm(It sure as hell ain't Obama) it wiuld be a domino effect .1st the 2nd amendment is repealled the US falls into a police state then YOU WILL BE NEXT.
Don't believe me .I'm not too emotionally connected to the issue.
I learned what I have over time, books and people.I did so because I was betrayed by my government and saught to learn how bad it really was now I am a conspiracy expert as a result.
While it may be a shame you cannot grasp the scope of the situation,to my great sadness for us both I DO.

cavtrooper7
reply to post by elysiumfire

 

I am 53,live IN the US,a military trained scout and an expertmarksman.
And you?
I used to wear a pocket knife to school then the satety hawks swooped in and so has the political leanings of hippies due to the fact they infest higher learning,then most of the lawyers.
Then they stopped spanking kids so they essentially do not have respect for a damn thing. THENstarted FORCING parents to drug unrully children ritalin and doctors began giving SSRIs out like CANY even though that should ONLY be done by a psychiatrist.
Throw in the internet where every one know every thing and suddenly everyone thinks America is all gun crazy mostly be cause they probably think we all are any way.
As to your final question you would have to be versed in who is really at the helm(It sure as hell ain't Obama) it wiuld be a domino effect .1st the 2nd amendment is repealled the US falls into a police state then YOU WILL BE NEXT.
Don't believe me .I'm not too emotionally connected to the issue.
I learned what I have over time book s and people.I did so because I was betrayed by my government and saught to learn how bad it really was now I am a conspiracy expert as a result.
While it may be a shame you cannot grasp the scope of the situation,to my great sadness for us both I DO.

edit on 24-10-2013 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-10-2013 by cavtrooper7 because: Misspelled

I agree wholeheartedly.

I can only give you a star.

Ever try to type a response while building a model in MAYA? So many misspells but you get the idea.

cavtrooper7
Ever try to type a response while building a model in MAYA? So many misspells but you get the idea.

I find it hard enough using a modelling program when its the only thing Im doing.

When a person is killed by a police officer the blame rests 100% of the time ALWAYS with the police. The only exception is when they are protecting a citizen from another citizen.

I don't care if a person is sporting a real RPG and blowing up cop cars, as long as they are not a threat to other civilians, that person is entitled to due process of law

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

A police officer being a tool of the state no longer has the rights of a civilian. I don't care if you have a family of starry eyed 5 year olds at home. It is your job to uphold the constitutional rights of the citizens you serve.

Am I being dramatic? Of course, but to make a point. Point being that every citizen has the right to due process and you cannot deprive someone of life and liberty. Lethal force is AN ABSOLUTE LAST LAST LAST LAST LAST LAST LAST course of action and I would argue (and you would have a really hard time convincing me otherwise) that out of the last 1000 suspects killed by police officers, only 2 were justified.

now I am a conspiracy expert as a result

How is one determined to be a "conspiracy expert"? Is there a test and a license? Is it a self proclamation any one can make?

Cavtrooper:

While it may be a shame you cannot grasp the scope of the situation,to my great sadness for us both I DO.

You would be very surprised at what I can grasp when it is presented to me articulately. I don't wish to demean or disparage your way of thinking, you obviously look at life in a very disparate way to me. Let's put that down to different cultural life experiences. I would suggest you retain some objectivity, but also some emotionality, try to get a balance, your personal viewpoint is not the only viewpoint that you should engage.

Funnily enough, I too am 53, live in England, not a trained scout, nor an expert marksman, those are skill sets I don't need, I don't live in the countryside, and I don't make a living off the land, and if society went tits up, I would probably be one of the first casualties along with millions of others. Just because you have those skill sets doesn't guarantee you would survive either. Having them only makes you think you have an edge, it may be true, it may not be. I sincerely hope you are never put in a situation where you have to put them to the test.

However, the thread is about America's gun problem. You obviously feel that if the guns were taken away, it would automatically lead to a militarised police state, martial law (perhaps), and a complete put down and control of the people, and thus having the gun in your hand frightens the government from doing that? You are wrong. If they wanted a militarised police state they'd create one, and they would take your gun. In fact, your responses to me are an example of the paranoia I wrote of in my first post. it's not that I didn't grasp your responses, I wanted you to articulate them better, at least to the extent I could be sure of what you wrote about. Hence my request for clarification. Cheers.

Toy gun was pointing toward deputies before 13-year-old was shot and killed, report says

Police investigating the shooting death of a 13-year-old boy carrying a replica assault rifle said the boy was told twice by sheriff's deputies to drop the fake weapon and at one point, turned with the barrel of the gun and pointed it in their direction, KTVU.com reported.

....................

"The subject turned toward the deputies, and as he was doing that the barrel of the weapon was rising toward the deputies," Santa Rosa Police Department Lt. Paul Henry told Reuters. The deputy then fired the rounds.

Too bad were are not hearing the gun pointing part from the actual police at the scene, Shooting the boy when he was down may have been what killed him. Nice touch.

Guess it is time for an elementary school class on toy gun safety.

edit:

Reported he was laying on the toy rifle so that sound much like he was no longer a threat when the other shots were fired.

YayMayorBee
When a person is killed by a police officer the blame rests 100% of the time ALWAYS with the police. The only exception is when they are protecting a citizen from another citizen.

I don't care if a person is sporting a real RPG and blowing up cop cars, as long as they are not a threat to other civilians, that person is entitled to due process of law

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

A police officer being a tool of the state no longer has the rights of a civilian. I don't care if you have a family of starry eyed 5 year olds at home. It is your job to uphold the constitutional rights of the citizens you serve.

Am I being dramatic? Of course, but to make a point. Point being that every citizen has the right to due process and you cannot deprive someone of life and liberty. Lethal force is AN ABSOLUTE LAST LAST LAST LAST LAST LAST LAST course of action and I would argue (and you would have a really hard time convincing me otherwise) that out of the last 1000 suspects killed by police officers, only 2 were justified.

Ok you might want to rethink your argument if someone is blowing up police cars and killing cops they are a threat to every civilian as you put it. And police officers dont give up their rights they have the same rights you do. In fact reverse that you also have the same rights they do its called a democracy. Police officers will be prosecuted for violating someones rights same as you will.As far as leathal force it is there last option i have never heard of a cop walking in and just shooting people at random. People like to make the police out to be evil there not they are trying to protect the citizens they serve might be from a drunk driver killing someone or a deranged mad man with a gun. Either way they are willing to risk there lives so you can continue yours. Imagine a world without the police our lives would quickly degenerate to the rule of nature.Only the strong will survive.

reply to post by Xcathdra


So, from your link, the deputies came up behind the kid, ordered him to drop the rifle, the kid was turning around to see what they were talking about or who they were, and they shot him twice, then when he was down, ordered him to get up and move away (?!) then shot him six or seven more times when he was face down on the ground. Got it.

Do you think if you came up behind someone and told them to do something, that it's an unusual thing for them to turn around and look at you? It's a pretty normal reaction.

I'd pay 10 bucks to see the dashcam footage, if it still exists.

I heard about this on the radio early this morning.....makes me sick knowing pigs get
away with #, like this.....I hope they get fried and burned, like 400 pounds of bad bacon,
in a cast iron skillet.

OneManArmy

Wrabbit2000


Stand your ground and/or castle doctrine has absolutely no application to what happened here. Neither relates to armed deputies lawfully stopping someone who is breaking the law on a public street.

BUT the kid wasnt breaking the law, and even if he was, it didnt deserve his summary execution on the spot.
Summary execution of "suspects" is how a tyrannical regime carries out its "justice". If you cannot see that as a normal citizen let alone a supposedly better informed member of society the likes of an ATS member, then I feel sorry for all americans.

That would be at least the second time it's been suggested the kid wasn't breaking any law.

That is absolutely false and wrong. He was in violation of California State Law. That isn't even a question as the law is exceptionally clear and, mercifully short. It's covered under California Penal Code 20170.

I quoted a good section of the relevant code in this post if it may help for context.

No one, even the media (never pro-cop, in that state above most) is claiming they shot the kid for breaking that law though. Has anyone yet confirmed what happened in the moments that led to the gunshots?

That was still unresolved and the issue the whole question of justification hinged on, last I'd followed the thread closely.

@ XCathdra

I see you found more updated info indicating it was pointing at them? Thanks for adding that. This is going to be one to follow closely. I still want to know who gave that thing to a 13yr old anywhere, but especially in a state like California.