The immorality of abortion

reply to post by captaintyinknots

I didn't make up the definition of murder.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I suppose all of the ancient cultures of the earth with their accounts of God and the fallen ones (Israelite, Greek, Egyptian, Babylonian, Sumerian) were all living in a computer simulation.

reply to post by jimmyx


What about the personal decision to have sex? What about actions and consequences. What about owning up to your own actions and not punishing someone else (fetus) for your indescretions.

reply to post by peter vlar


You are right, religion is a tool for control but God is not. Once you realize that the two not one in the same, many possibilities open up.
You are also right about the ot and nt and that is why I am no longer a Christian. That deos not take value away from God as he had nothing to do with the nt and some of the ot. We have to remember that the bible is compilation of books sewn together by the roman catholic church in order to control the serfs.
That does not mean that all of the books of the bible are false or fabricated.

beegoodbees
reply to post by jimmyx

 

What about the personal decision to have sex? What about actions and consequences. What about owning up to your own actions and not punishing someone else (fetus) for your indescretions.

there is no "someone else" as it pertains to a fetus...it's part of the female's body...and if you are so worried about actions and consequences, why not have all baby boys have their semen tubes tied off at birth, that way THEIR actions will not result in a pregnancy until they are married and/or woman gives her consent for her own impregnation....wouldn't that be following in the fine traditions of freedom, liberty, and personal responsibility??

dukeofjive696969
I am personally againts abortion, but as a non doctor or woman, my opinion has no bearings on a womens decison. Plain and simple, people should know this by now

How are people supposed to know what your opinion has bearing on?

reply to post by jimmyx


Do parts of the female body normally pop out get detached and then in 2-3 years star walking around by themselves. You do see how stupid that sounds to say it's just part of her body right?

beegoodbees
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I suppose all of the ancient cultures of the earth with their accounts of God and the fallen ones (Israelite, Greek, Egyptian, Babylonian, Sumerian) were all living in a computer simulation.

no, they were ignorant people who were unable to explain much of the world they lived in, so they believed what was told them by the people that they held in high regard, or, if they were educated, too fearful to oppose those who would harm them if they did not believe in a god or gods.

jimmyx

beegoodbees
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I suppose all of the ancient cultures of the earth with their accounts of God and the fallen ones (Israelite, Greek, Egyptian, Babylonian, Sumerian) were all living in a computer simulation.

no, they were ignorant people who were unable to explain much of the world they lived in, so they believed what was told them by the people that they held in high regard, or, if they were educated, too fearful to oppose those who would harm them if they did not believe in a god or gods.

Wow, that's exactly how I view people like you except for the God part.

beegoodbees
reply to post by jimmyx

 

Do parts of the female body normally pop out get detached and then walk around by themselves. You do see how stupid that sounds to say it's just part of her body right?

stupid??....so if the pregnant women has a fetus that dies in her womb or unexpectedly aborts on it's own against the woman's wishes...will she be charged with murder??....and let me remind you, that wealthy women for quite some time before ROE v. WADE, would simply fly out of the country and have an abortion done somewhere else. would you follow her and try her for murder??...or, how about the girl that says she is too young to go through childbirth, but is forced to anyway, and dies in childbirth as a result, will the judge that ordered her forced birth be tried for murder??

beegoodbees
reply to post by peter vlar

 

Because we are expected to stand up for the rights of the innocent and not just say as many do "it's not my fight, God will take care of it" God instructs us to do what is right, not look away and wait for someone else to do it.

and where exactly does God instruct this? HE doesn't humans who invoke his name do. You also agreed that religion was a means of control but deny god is a tool of control him/itself. I would certainly disagree as god is the instrument of fear utilized by the religious to get people to lock step with them. The hypocrisy of American Christians is nauseating. I respect the fact that you've stepped outside the confines of Christianity and hope whatever you follow brings you peace and happiness. It just isn't for me. I'm not a proponent of abortion, but as another poster stated...I'm a man, I can't get pregnant therefore its not my place to decide for someone else what is morally OK for them to do or not do with their own body. That to me is all too immoral. My morals are my own and it's not my place to tell anyone else how to live or what their punishment will be for not following my path.

beegoodbees

jimmyx

beegoodbees
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I suppose all of the ancient cultures of the earth with their accounts of God and the fallen ones (Israelite, Greek, Egyptian, Babylonian, Sumerian) were all living in a computer simulation.

no, they were ignorant people who were unable to explain much of the world they lived in, so they believed what was told them by the people that they held in high regard, or, if they were educated, too fearful to oppose those who would harm them if they did not believe in a god or gods.

Wow, that's exactly how I view people like you except for the God part.

which is fine, you can believe anything you want about me, but, I am not punished by others for not believing in god, nor do I have to wait until I die to know if I lived a moral life. I take responsibility for that every day, by not blaming some type of outside "evil" for my shortcomings, nor praising some type of outside "good" for my beneficial deeds.

beegoodbees
reply to post by jimmyx

 

What about the personal decision to have sex? What about actions and consequences. What about owning up to your own actions and not punishing someone else (fetus) for your indescretions.

The 'real life' answer to your post is here >>> abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by FreeMason


My only problem with those who protest abortion is the fact that they only support that cause. Once someone decides not to terminate, the anti abortionist don't think about the future of that child being born in an unstable or unsafe or even poor home.

eletheia

beegoodbees
reply to post by jimmyx

 

What about the personal decision to have sex? What about actions and consequences. What about owning up to your own actions and not punishing someone else (fetus) for your indescretions.

The 'real life' answer to your post is here >>> abovetopsecret.com...

answer??...the women in that thread chooses to have the baby born, case closed. the man chose to take a chance of impregnating her by having a "booty call" on 3 different occasions, knowing full well the likely consequences of his actions. he has to live with the results, regardless of what he now demands of the woman. I suggest counseling for both of them (the man and woman cited in your related post) by an outside party, that would remain neutral. it's time for him to quickly grow up.

jimmyx

beegoodbees
reply to post by jimmyx

 

Do parts of the female body normally pop out get detached and then walk around by themselves. You do see how stupid that sounds to say it's just part of her body right?

stupid??....so if the pregnant women has a fetus that dies in her womb or unexpectedly aborts on it's own against the woman's wishes...will she be charged with murder??....and let me remind you, that wealthy women for quite some time before ROE v. WADE, would simply fly out of the country and have an abortion done somewhere else. would you follow her and try her for murder??...or, how about the girl that says she is too young to go through childbirth, but is forced to anyway, and dies in childbirth as a result, will the judge that ordered her forced birth be tried for murder??

Since when is accidental death equivalent to murder? I don't get your logic man. As far as rape, incest and other more unusual examples I say sometimes maybe. But lets just focus on adult women that choose to have sex and in doing so are taking the risk of pregnancy no matter how much protection is used. That to me is pretty straight forward. If you are unwilling or unable to be a mother than don't take the risk.

It's called personal responsibility. If you knowingly take the risk than you should be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Mommymomo
reply to post by FreeMason

 

My only problem with those who protest abortion is the fact that they only support that cause. Once someone decides not to terminate, the anti abortionist don't think about the future of that child being born in an unstable or unsafe or even poor home.

your right...they are the same ones that got the WIC (women, infants and children) programs cut, along with the food stamp program cut in last springs, republican written, sequester legislation...and most of them call themselves good Christians....I wonder if those pearly gates into heaven, have a spring-loaded booby-trap for hypocrites surrounding the entrance.

peter vlar

beegoodbees
reply to post by peter vlar

 

Because we are expected to stand up for the rights of the innocent and not just say as many do "it's not my fight, God will take care of it" God instructs us to do what is right, not look away and wait for someone else to do it.

and where exactly does God instruct this? HE doesn't humans who invoke his name do. You also agreed that religion was a means of control but deny god is a tool of control him/itself. I would certainly disagree as god is the instrument of fear utilized by the religious to get people to lock step with them. The hypocrisy of American Christians is nauseating. I respect the fact that you've stepped outside the confines of Christianity and hope whatever you follow brings you peace and happiness. It just isn't for me. I'm not a proponent of abortion, but as another poster stated...I'm a man, I can't get pregnant therefore its not my place to decide for someone else what is morally OK for them to do or not do with their own body. That to me is all too immoral. My morals are my own and it's not my place to tell anyone else how to live or what their punishment will be for not following my path.

God gave moses the law, not just ten commandments. The law is pretty thorough. God is not a tool of fear. The imagined torture for all eternity in hellfire is the tool used for fear. God never says in the bible that sinners go to hell for all eternity. This was invented by the roman catholics as means of control. Granted humans often use religion and God as a reason (at least to feed to the people) for war and atrocities. Hey, I won't fault you for your beliefs just like I won't fault myself for my past beliefs however I do feel compelled to get my viewpoint out there.

Do parts of the female body normally pop out get detached and then in 2-3 years start walking around by themselves?

jimmyx

beegoodbees

jimmyx

beegoodbees
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I suppose all of the ancient cultures of the earth with their accounts of God and the fallen ones (Israelite, Greek, Egyptian, Babylonian, Sumerian) were all living in a computer simulation.

no, they were ignorant people who were unable to explain much of the world they lived in, so they believed what was told them by the people that they held in high regard, or, if they were educated, too fearful to oppose those who would harm them if they did not believe in a god or gods.

Wow, that's exactly how I view people like you except for the God part.

which is fine, you can believe anything you want about me, but, I am not punished by others for not believing in god, nor do I have to wait until I die to know if I lived a moral life. I take responsibility for that every day, by not blaming some type of outside "evil" for my shortcomings, nor praising some type of outside "good" for my beneficial deeds.

Sorry for that slight against you but as I was reading your reply your description just struck me as an accurate description of how I view most liberal ideology. I don't believe that god want's praise or worship. That is what satan wants. What God wants from us is the same thing we all want from each other, respect.

Mommymomo
reply to post by FreeMason

 

My only problem with those who protest abortion is the fact that they only support that cause. Once someone decides not to terminate, the anti abortionist don't think about the future of that child being born in an unstable or unsafe or even poor home.

How many great people came from poverty and dysfunction and became great productive individuals? The answer is a lot. You don't kill babies for being poor. Hey, if they saved the kids life they gave him a fighting chance. That's about all that anyone can ask for imo.