The immorality of abortion

Easy question.

If time travel became possible, should it be illegal to go back in time and pay mothers to abort children of people we don't like? If abortion is not murder then there should be nothing wrong with this paradox correct?

reply to post by FreeMason


You want to go back and abort Hitler?
Be my guest, you'll save millions of lives.
Get Mao and Stalin while you're at it.

But then of course, who is to say someone else would not have rolled up and done the same?
Collectively we must learn from negative experiences in order for our species to evolve as a whole.

So what about the 3 million + sperms you kicked to the curb in order to reach your mother's egg first?
Have you no shame for leaving your brothers and sisters to die?
Or maybe God chose you out of the 3 million sperm, then?
Just as God has chose leaders of the inquisiton, eh?

Indeed...

I've also pondered the confusion of the laws that address killing a pregnant woman's baby against her will & prosecuting it as murder - But then if she chooses to do it not only is it no longer murder but it's legal.

How can it be suggested that murder is simply defined by who does the killing?

ETA: What the HELL is going on with your star count man? 738,010 stars in 1629 posts???

ThinkingCap
reply to post by FreeMason

 

You want to go back and abort Hitler?
Be my guest, you'll save millions of lives.
Get Mao and Stalin while you're at it.

But then of course, who is to say someone else would not have rolled up and done the same?
Collectively we must learn from negative experiences in order for our species to evolve as a whole.

So what about the 3 million + sperms you kicked to the curb in order to reach your mother's egg first?
Have you no shame for leaving your brothers and sisters to die?
Or maybe God chose you out of the 3 million sperm, then?
Just as God has chose leaders of the inquisiton, eh?

What you're arguing equates to a death sentence for a crime.

I'm talking about your neighbor lets his dog poop on your lawn so you pay his mom $1million to have him aborted. Or $1,000 if she's cheap.

reply to post by FreeMason


If their mothers were considering an abortion in the first place, then no, I don't see any moral problem with it. Coercing or forcing a woman to have an abortion would be immoral, but if she wanted it, then no.

Here's another interesting paradox: most anti abortionists also support the death penalty, and are highly opposed to welfare. Yet in many cases, a woman who is seeking an abortion does so because she can't take care of the kid, financially or otherwise, and the father has no interest or desire in taking care of the kid. Thus, forcing the woman to have the kid means she will be dependent upon state welfare and social services to raise it. And quite often, kids from single parent homes end up on the wrong side of the law, even crimes that merit the death penalty.

So basically, the anti-abortionists want to force women to have kids, then remove all state aid to take care of the kids and do not want to pay for their upbringing (though gee, they sure scream about how "precious" those babies are, even as they are content to let them live on the streets), and kids who will likely grow up incarcerated or on death row and be executed.

I think it's clear where the real immorality lies.

coldkidc
Indeed...

I've also pondered the confusion of the laws that address killing a pregnant woman's baby against her will & prosecuting it as murder - But then if she chooses to do it not only is it no longer murder but it's legal.

How can it be suggested that murder is simply defined by who does the killing?

edit on 19-10-2013 by coldkidc because: (no reason given)

It can't, Roe v. Wade is the most atrocious decision ever made, it is worse than Waldsee Conference's Final Solution.

Because unlike the Final Solution, Abortion has the legitimacy of law.

Where as the Final Solution was conducted in the utmost secrecy not just from the world, but of Germans themselves.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
reply to post by FreeMason

 

If their mothers were considering an abortion in the first place, then no, I don't see any moral problem with it. Coercing or forcing a woman to have an abortion would be immoral, but if she wanted it, then no.

Here's another interesting paradox: most anti abortionists also support the death penalty, and are highly opposed to welfare. Yet in many cases, a woman who is seeking an abortion does so because she can't take care of the kid, financially or otherwise, and the father has no interest or desire in taking care of the kid. Thus, forcing the woman to have the kid means she will be dependent upon state welfare and social services to raise it. And quite often, kids from single parent homes end up on the wrong side of the law, even crimes that merit the death penalty.

So basically, the anti-abortionists want to force women to have kids, then remove all state aid to take care of the kids and do not want to pay for their upbringing (though gee, they sure scream about how "precious" those babies are, even as they are content to let them live on the streets), and kids who will likely grow up incarcerated or on death row and be executed.

I think it's clear where the real immorality lies.

You make it sound like having a kid is some kind of accidental disease that afflicts a mother through no action of her own.

Meanwhile, the law is clear.

There are no accidents, if you have a car accident on the road because the conditions were icey, it's not the ice's fault, it's still yours. Don't believe me? Go to court and fight the fine the give you when you roll your car in a ditch during a snow storm.

If you have sex, then you should face the consequences of your actions.

If I cheat on my wife, I can't murder her because she is going to divorce me and take the kids and half my money.

F#$#G CAPICHE?

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Then again, there is the option of keeping it in your pants if you can't afford to have a kid...

Personal responsibility is what it's called I believe.

reply to post by coldkidc


Personal responsibility is a nice pipe dream, but it is something humans never do. They haven't in the past, and won't in the future.

Legislation is not about what is nice, it is about what is most practical and beneficial for society as a whole. Making abortion a legal option is better for society as a whole.

Pro-aborts are selfish and illogical.

They're all here~! There mother's loved enough and wished to keep them.

If you voted for a pro-Abort politician no matter the level of government, repent from the heart and
confess this grave sin to God before you die. Why? You have cooperated in your approval of abortion.

You must die in the state of grace, free of grave mortal sin. Daily prayer and , very, very important, regular repentance and confession to God of your serious (mortal) sins. Both of them for the life of your soul.

100th time repeating, Catholics must do more, they must go to Confession.

I changed my sentence and didn't correct a couple of words. Oops...

Correction:

"Their mothers loved enough and wished to keep them."

reply to post by FreeMason

The immorality of human life.... we came and deplete resources, wage war, kill each other, treat the animals like it's worthless, and we'll end up destroying Earth...The End

reply to post by FreeMason


In a number of cases, that is exactly what pregnancy is. An unintended health affliction, unwanted by the mother. And yes, it happens just as often as not, through no fault of her own.

Here's a couple of news flashes, in case you didn't get the memo:

1. Contraceptives are not full proof, nor are they guaranteed to work. Contraceptive failures increase in people who are uneducated and don't understand the proper use of them.

2. Pregnancy is a very high risk endeavor for women in any state of health or age. It is taxing on the woman's body, it is more often than not, dangerous. Why do you think than without modern medicine, women got sick and died so much having kids in the past?

3. I have known a few women who have had abortions. They had sound reasons for it. And in most cases, it was actually the guy who pushed and pressured for an abortion, or supported it.

4. A human embryo is indistinguishable from most animal embryos. It is a cluster of dividing cells. It certainly has the potential to be a human. So does sperm. If you think abortion is taking a human life, then every ejaculation in your life that didn't produce kids is murder. A human is only a full person/human when they are capable of life outside their mothers without artificial life support. ,

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
reply to post by FreeMason

 

In a number of cases, that is exactly what pregnancy is. An unintended health affliction, unwanted by the mother. And yes, it happens just as often as not, through no fault of her own.

Here's a couple of news flashes, in case you didn't get the memo:

1. Contraceptives are not full proof, nor are they guaranteed to work. Contraceptive failures increase in people who are uneducated and don't understand the proper use of them.

2. Pregnancy is a very high risk endeavor for women in any state of health or age. It is taxing on the woman's body, it is more often than not, dangerous. Why do you think than without modern medicine, women got sick and died so much having kids in the past?

3. I have known a few women who have had abortions. They had sound reasons for it. And in most cases, it was actually the guy who pushed and pressured for an abortion, or supported it.

4. A human embryo is indistinguishable from most animal embryos. It is a cluster of dividing cells. It certainly has the potential to be a human. So does sperm. If you think abortion is taking a human life, then every ejaculation in your life that didn't produce kids is murder. A human is only a full person/human when they are capable of life outside their mothers without artificial life support. ,

#4 is absolutely NOT true. The greatest scientists of our time and technology find life begins at
conception. We can see it? Where have you been? Prayer plus this fact is the reason so many abortion
clinics are failing. People are waking up to the truth, it is there before their eyes even if they have
little faith.

I wish I could persuade you, human life is sacred. God creates a brand new person with a body and
a soul at conception. Below is one of the verses that show, you are given a soul at conception.

Anyone at ATS involved in any way with an abortion, run to God the Father, His arms are open. Repent and confess this sin. We are all sinners! No one knows their last day.


This is a verse from Psalm 50 in the Douay-Rheims, I think it is Psalm 51 in the KJV.


Psalm 50:7
For behold I was conceived in iniquities; and in sins did my mother conceive me.

So what about those accident situations where all precautions were taken to prevent pregnancy?
Should the parents not have the choice to abort since they clearly have no desire to raise a child?

What about rape cases? Has the woman not suffered enough that she be forced to bear out the pregnancy to term and birth the child of a monstrous act?

Terminating a fetus within the first 2 months is as much an act of murder as it would be to masturbate and throw out the sperm.
If you take that stance, then you should be happy to go life without any kind of sexual experience outside of the want for a child.

But then again... that is YOUR choice and inflicting your own morals onto others is just as immoral.

Sovaka
So what about those accident situations where all precautions were taken to prevent pregnancy?
Should the parents not have the choice to abort since they clearly have no desire to raise a child?

What about rape cases? Has the woman not suffered enough that she be forced to bear out the pregnancy to term and birth the child of a monstrous act?

Terminating a fetus within the first 2 months is as much an act of murder as it would be to masturbate and throw out the sperm.
If you take that stance, then you should be happy to go life without any kind of sexual experience outside of the want for a child.

But then again... that is YOUR choice and inflicting your own morals onto others is just as immoral.

Sovaka,

If you believe life is sacred, you can see why God made sex for marriage and procreation not for selfish
gratification.

This is why contraception too besides abortion is an intrinsic evil! Both are and while today, both are denied as even being sin. God decides life not us ever! There is a time, more time when a woman is not fertile. Married couples, ABSTAIN (a natural way) if you have a very serious reason for not being open to the gift of a child at a certain period in your married life.

The "Pill" has been found to be an abortifacient, it keeps the conceived egg from attaching to the uterus
wall. The "Pill" causes cancer. The "Pill" is getting into the water supply and causing sterility for men. Contraception has brought about the destruction of the family. Without the family, where will we be soon?

You're seeing with the worldwide use of contraception for over fifty years, a demographic winter. Where are the children? I see a lot of gray haired people walking around instead.

Another, a baby conceived by rape or incest is still a baby, a person with a body and a soul. Adoption,
there you go, the answer.

I do not believe in God.

I decide to create life... That process involves me deciding whether or not to wear a condom.
There is no fictional entity that hands me the condom and tells me what to do.

And adoption isn't an option when you take the effects on the woman's body comes into the equation.
Not to mention her mental state when she feels she could possibly be bringing to term another potential rapist (Depending on beliefs of gene sharing from the father).

Come back to me with a proper counter point when it doesn't involve a fictional entity that not every person prescribes to.

We are gonna need Time Laws and Time Cops!!

Timecop (1994) - Theatrical Trailer HD (Official) - Van Damme | Ron Silver
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OPLHgw54h4
www.youtube.com...

Sovaka
I do not believe in God.

I decide to create life... That process involves me deciding whether or not to wear a condom.
There is no fictional entity that hands me the condom and tells me what to do.

And adoption isn't an option when you take the effects on the woman's body comes into the equation.
Not to mention her mental state when she feels she could possibly be bringing to term another potential rapist (Depending on beliefs of gene sharing from the father).

Come back to me with a proper counter point when it doesn't involve a fictional entity that not every person prescribes to.

Very, very well said.