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The immorality of abortion

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posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 12:03 AM
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Reply to Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Bone75


The logic that escapes you is rather simple... the unborn are innocent, murderers and rapists aren't. We'll put a rapist in prison rather than executing him, but we turn around and give his victim the right to execute his child. To me that's twisted justice.



But the unborn aren't humans until a certain stage. A death row inmate is.


Sorry but I see more value in a potential positive than a proven negative.
edit on 21-10-2013 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by FreeMason
 


Time travel will never be possible, but yeah it would be murder.



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 11:29 AM
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The Tibetan Book of the Dead states that the soul exists in the Bardo--the intermediate afterlife--for exactly 49 days before gaining a new body.

Science tells us that exactly 49 days after conception, the gender of the child is determined and the pineal gland is fully formed.

Life is more precious than most people realize. Tread very, VERY lightly before making a callous decision to terminate it.



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 12:51 PM
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I say it's fine as long as the intended victim believes that abortion is a choice and not a crime against humanity. But I suppose if the intended victim believes that murdering babies is not a good idea you may not want to abort them anyway. Ahhh, I made a little paradox of my own.



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 12:53 PM
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Forget the abortion part, the immorality of this scenario is to change the past without knowing the consequences.

Think about how much changed on this planet because of ww2. Some good, some bad. But one thing is for sure-this world would not be the same had it not happened.



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


I believe the op is meant to expose the hypocrisy of abortion advocates and is not really meant to be scrutinized in a scientific fashion. However you are correct. What you have stated is why movies never get time travel right.



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 01:08 PM
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beegoodbees
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


I believe the op is meant to expose the hypocrisy of abortion advocates and is not really meant to be scrutinized in a scientific fashion. However you are correct. What you have stated is why movies never get time travel right.
I get that. My point, though, is that it is pretty silly to use such an asinine scenario to make a point. If something has to be this fantastical to make a point, and a person cant even bother to actually think through what they are proposing, its fairly moot, and definitely stupid.


edit on 22-10-2013 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 01:55 PM
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Abortion is murder no matter how old the baby growing inside you is: from conception to 40+ weeks. Instead, how about going back in time and befriending these monsters to steer them in the right, moral direction. Maybe be their protectors from the abuse they may have endured as children or redirect their lives in some way. Evil is made not conceived or born.



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 03:28 PM
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I'm rather enjoying the amazing disconnect spouted by everyone advocating an Abrahamic based morality. I thought Jesus was about compassion not judgment? Lets take a look at some of your gods fine examples of protecting innocent life.


At midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon. Exodus 12:29, BT
unborn not good...first born OK to kill all of them apparently


And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth. Genesis 7:23,
god killed everybody and now we're allegedly the result of noah's family incest. incest OK but abortion is very bad


And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague. Numbers 11:33
just when you thought it was OK to complain about food, loving and benevolent god strikes again


And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them. Numbers 11:1
Apparently god loves you unless you complain



And the LORD said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people ... So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive. Numbers 21:34-35
10 commandments say thou shalt not kill, unless you're moses then its ok because god gives a hall pass that day



A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them ... As he did to the children of Esau, which dwelt in Seir, when he destroyed the Horims from before them ... And the Avims ... the Caphtorims ... destroyed them, and dwelt in their stead. -- Deuteronomy 2:21-22
apparently abortion is bad because god wants to kill your children himself. poor Esau



So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. ... threescore cities ... And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. -- Deuteronomy 3:3-6,
I guess abortion is irrelevant when god kills all the women and children



The wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy. Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand. -- 2 Chronicles 36:16-17
some more love from your god as he sends the Chaldeans to kill off Jews More and more God looks like a spoiled toddler in the midst of a tantrum


Sorry, but If the people supporting this nonsense are the ones going to heaven I think I'll take my chances on my own. I don't want to be stuck for eternity with such closed minded soulless apparitions of humanity who refuse to think for themselves in the name of bronze age shepherds magic tomes.



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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Argyll
reply to post by colbe
 





God made sex for marriage and procreation.


So not for pleasure then?.......seems to me that God missed a trick with that particular one then


I also counter the "sex only for procreation and marriage" with the 10 surprising health benefits of sex... see below

www.webmd.com...


1. Less Stress, Better Blood Pressure
2. Sex Boosts Immunity
3. Sex Burns Calories
4. Sex Improves Heart Health
5. Better Self-Esteem
6. Deeper Intimacy
7. Sex May Turn Down Pain
8. More Ejaculations May Make Prostate Cancer Less Likely
9. Stronger Pelvic Floor Muscles
10. Better Sleep
edit on 22-10-2013 by research100 because: dang spelling



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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Sportbominable
Abortion is murder no matter how old the baby growing inside you is: from conception to 40+ weeks. Instead, how about going back in time and befriending these monsters to steer them in the right, moral direction. Maybe be their protectors from the abuse they may have endured as children or redirect their lives in some way. Evil is made not conceived or born.
Nothing quite so arrogant as those who think it is their place to tell another waht is right or wrong.

Just sayin.



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 03:43 PM
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peter vlar
I'm rather enjoying the amazing disconnect spouted by everyone advocating an Abrahamic based morality. I thought Jesus was about compassion not judgment? Lets take a look at some of your gods fine examples of protecting innocent life.


At midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon. Exodus 12:29, BT
unborn not good...first born OK to kill all of them apparently


And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth. Genesis 7:23,
god killed everybody and now we're allegedly the result of noah's family incest. incest OK but abortion is very bad


And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague. Numbers 11:33
just when you thought it was OK to complain about food, loving and benevolent god strikes again


And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them. Numbers 11:1
Apparently god loves you unless you complain



And the LORD said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people ... So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive. Numbers 21:34-35
10 commandments say thou shalt not kill, unless you're moses then its ok because god gives a hall pass that day



A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them ... As he did to the children of Esau, which dwelt in Seir, when he destroyed the Horims from before them ... And the Avims ... the Caphtorims ... destroyed them, and dwelt in their stead. -- Deuteronomy 2:21-22
apparently abortion is bad because god wants to kill your children himself. poor Esau



So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. ... threescore cities ... And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. -- Deuteronomy 3:3-6,
I guess abortion is irrelevant when god kills all the women and children



The wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy. Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand. -- 2 Chronicles 36:16-17
some more love from your god as he sends the Chaldeans to kill off Jews More and more God looks like a spoiled toddler in the midst of a tantrum


Sorry, but If the people supporting this nonsense are the ones going to heaven I think I'll take my chances on my own. I don't want to be stuck for eternity with such closed minded soulless apparitions of humanity who refuse to think for themselves in the name of bronze age shepherds magic tomes.


Waaah look at me im so smart I showed that big ole meanie God....waaaaah

Im just so tired of explaining so many errors in people who question God in the Old Testament.

He can do whatever He wants. We cant

Will someone else take this one?
edit on 22-10-2013 by FreeMason because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by FreeMason
 


You are correct but I do believe if you went back and made someone abort there child the whole future would change so when you were to go back to 'current time' it would not be how you left it just without that person

if i make sense



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 03:45 PM
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FreeMason

peter vlar
I'm rather enjoying the amazing disconnect spouted by everyone advocating an Abrahamic based morality. I thought Jesus was about compassion not judgment? Lets take a look at some of your gods fine examples of protecting innocent life.


At midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon. Exodus 12:29, BT
unborn not good...first born OK to kill all of them apparently


And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth. Genesis 7:23,
god killed everybody and now we're allegedly the result of noah's family incest. incest OK but abortion is very bad


And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague. Numbers 11:33
just when you thought it was OK to complain about food, loving and benevolent god strikes again


And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them. Numbers 11:1
Apparently god loves you unless you complain



And the LORD said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people ... So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive. Numbers 21:34-35
10 commandments say thou shalt not kill, unless you're moses then its ok because god gives a hall pass that day



A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them ... As he did to the children of Esau, which dwelt in Seir, when he destroyed the Horims from before them ... And the Avims ... the Caphtorims ... destroyed them, and dwelt in their stead. -- Deuteronomy 2:21-22
apparently abortion is bad because god wants to kill your children himself. poor Esau



So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. ... threescore cities ... And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. -- Deuteronomy 3:3-6,
I guess abortion is irrelevant when god kills all the women and children



The wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy. Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand. -- 2 Chronicles 36:16-17
some more love from your god as he sends the Chaldeans to kill off Jews More and more God looks like a spoiled toddler in the midst of a tantrum


Sorry, but If the people supporting this nonsense are the ones going to heaven I think I'll take my chances on my own. I don't want to be stuck for eternity with such closed minded soulless apparitions of humanity who refuse to think for themselves in the name of bronze age shepherds magic tomes.


Waaah look at me im so smart I showed that big ole meanie God....waaaaah
And yet I dont see you counter arguing the points made.

'Nuff said (or not said).



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 03:51 PM
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Funny how nasa sends probes all over the solar system looking for life. They are looking for microscopic bacteria or any signs of life. Yet a fetus is not considered life, not till it is born.



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 03:53 PM
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Hoosierdaddy71
Funny how nasa sends probes all over the solar system looking for life. They are looking for microscopic bacteria or any signs of life. Yet a fetus is not considered life, not till it is born.
You have your terms mixed up. At conception, there are living cells.

They are not, however, a human being.



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 03:54 PM
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Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
reply to post by FreeMason
 


If their mothers were considering an abortion in the first place, then no, I don't see any moral problem with it. Coercing or forcing a woman to have an abortion would be immoral, but if she wanted it, then no.

Here's another interesting paradox: most anti abortionists also support the death penalty, and are highly opposed to welfare. Yet in many cases, a woman who is seeking an abortion does so because she can't take care of the kid, financially or otherwise, and the father has no interest or desire in taking care of the kid. Thus, forcing the woman to have the kid means she will be dependent upon state welfare and social services to raise it. And quite often, kids from single parent homes end up on the wrong side of the law, even crimes that merit the death penalty.

So basically, the anti-abortionists want to force women to have kids, then remove all state aid to take care of the kids and do not want to pay for their upbringing (though gee, they sure scream about how "precious" those babies are, even as they are content to let them live on the streets), and kids who will likely grow up incarcerated or on death row and be executed.

I think it's clear where the real immorality lies.



Still reading the thread but just had to comment here. I have thought of this exact example in the past. Problem is, there is the hypocrisy from the other side as well. A lot of the pro-choice crowd also don't believe in the death penalty. So, they believe in ending a life that has caused no harm to anyone (yet) but can't bring themselves to agree with the death penalty for murderers. Plenty of hypocrisy on both sides of that issue imo.



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 04:18 PM
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captaintyinknots

FreeMason

peter vlar
I'm rather enjoying the amazing disconnect spouted by everyone advocating an Abrahamic based morality. I thought Jesus was about compassion not judgment? Lets take a look at some of your gods fine examples of protecting innocent life.


At midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon. Exodus 12:29, BT
unborn not good...first born OK to kill all of them apparently


And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth. Genesis 7:23,
god killed everybody and now we're allegedly the result of noah's family incest. incest OK but abortion is very bad


And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague. Numbers 11:33
just when you thought it was OK to complain about food, loving and benevolent god strikes again


And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them. Numbers 11:1
Apparently god loves you unless you complain



And the LORD said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people ... So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive. Numbers 21:34-35
10 commandments say thou shalt not kill, unless you're moses then its ok because god gives a hall pass that day



A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them ... As he did to the children of Esau, which dwelt in Seir, when he destroyed the Horims from before them ... And the Avims ... the Caphtorims ... destroyed them, and dwelt in their stead. -- Deuteronomy 2:21-22
apparently abortion is bad because god wants to kill your children himself. poor Esau



So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. ... threescore cities ... And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. -- Deuteronomy 3:3-6,
I guess abortion is irrelevant when god kills all the women and children



The wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy. Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand. -- 2 Chronicles 36:16-17
some more love from your god as he sends the Chaldeans to kill off Jews More and more God looks like a spoiled toddler in the midst of a tantrum


Sorry, but If the people supporting this nonsense are the ones going to heaven I think I'll take my chances on my own. I don't want to be stuck for eternity with such closed minded soulless apparitions of humanity who refuse to think for themselves in the name of bronze age shepherds magic tomes.


Waaah look at me im so smart I showed that big ole meanie God....waaaaah
And yet I dont see you counter arguing the points made.

'Nuff said (or not said).


There were no points made. God can and will do things with perfect knowledge which we cant do. So to constrain him to the morality imposed on us is stupid.

Stupid



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 04:19 PM
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captaintyinknots

Hoosierdaddy71
Funny how nasa sends probes all over the solar system looking for life. They are looking for microscopic bacteria or any signs of life. Yet a fetus is not considered life, not till it is born.
You have your terms mixed up. At conception, there are living cells.

They are not, however, a human being.




THey will become human if not aborted



posted on Oct, 22 2013 @ 04:21 PM
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FreeMason

peter vlar
I'm rather enjoying the amazing disconnect spouted by everyone advocating an Abrahamic based morality. I thought Jesus was about compassion not judgment? Lets take a look at some of your gods fine examples of protecting innocent life.


At midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon. Exodus 12:29, BT
unborn not good...first born OK to kill all of them apparently


And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth. Genesis 7:23,
god killed everybody and now we're allegedly the result of noah's family incest. incest OK but abortion is very bad


And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague. Numbers 11:33
just when you thought it was OK to complain about food, loving and benevolent god strikes again


And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them. Numbers 11:1
Apparently god loves you unless you complain



And the LORD said unto Moses, Fear him not: for I have delivered him into thy hand, and all his people ... So they smote him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was none left him alive. Numbers 21:34-35
10 commandments say thou shalt not kill, unless you're moses then its ok because god gives a hall pass that day



A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them ... As he did to the children of Esau, which dwelt in Seir, when he destroyed the Horims from before them ... And the Avims ... the Caphtorims ... destroyed them, and dwelt in their stead. -- Deuteronomy 2:21-22
apparently abortion is bad because god wants to kill your children himself. poor Esau



So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. ... threescore cities ... And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. -- Deuteronomy 3:3-6,
I guess abortion is irrelevant when god kills all the women and children



The wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy. Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand. -- 2 Chronicles 36:16-17
some more love from your god as he sends the Chaldeans to kill off Jews More and more God looks like a spoiled toddler in the midst of a tantrum


Sorry, but If the people supporting this nonsense are the ones going to heaven I think I'll take my chances on my own. I don't want to be stuck for eternity with such closed minded soulless apparitions of humanity who refuse to think for themselves in the name of bronze age shepherds magic tomes.


Waaah look at me im so smart I showed that big ole meanie God....waaaaah

Im just so tired of explaining so many errors in people who question God in the Old Testament.

He can do whatever He wants. We cant

Will someone else take this one?
edit on 22-10-2013 by FreeMason because: (no reason given)



Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. The entire premise of your fairy tale is that your sky god gave us free will. free will means we CAN do whatever we want. It appears you don't understand your own story book as well as those who know it's about as realistic as Hansel and Gretel. you're starting to sound like your God did in the OT, a spoiled child stomping his foot. get over it. if you start a thread of this nature you should expect a lot harsher backlash than someone using your own scripture to show how hypocritical you and your stupid god are.
edit on 22-10-2013 by peter vlar because: (no reason given)




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