Debt Ceiling: China Calls for World to Be 'De-Americanised'

They have a term for this....

"Sold US out"

The US has sold out its work force and the middle and lower classes through its trade policies and NAFTA like short term Corporate boondoggles.

All this leading to a postmodern form of serfdom where billionaires and multi-millionaires become the Lords and Dukes of America.

This shutdown and debt limit fiasco will lower the power of the middle and lower classes even more as the road to a Greek-type austerity is put in place that will strangle the country.

The last thing the US needs is austerity, in which in England it has wrecked the economy, and in Greece raised the suicide rate to astronomical levels.

But this is the worldwide agenda and pawns like the Koch brother’s Tea party and corporate democrats like Obama will provide the Faustian deal to initiate cuts and austerity that will wreck the country.

China is just a bystander, another customer.

*seriously*.

Why do you keep putting stars around words? I find it *pointless*, and *strange*. I find it hard to pay attention to your topics because of *it*.

I think they should have closed the American financial system at the start of the GFC.

This is what I posted in the other thread on a possible default.

Since the bailout, while the US continues to sink into debt, both the government and the public, ICBs are getting richer and richer.

Default is exactly what should happen.

Then abandon the Fed Res currency, issue a new U.S. current, all savings under 250K, with a one to one trade off, and then devalue the fed res currency on a ten to one ratio, 10 fed res dollars for 1 US Treasury dollar.

And we pay back the banks and the world what we really owe them.

And re-redistribute back the wealth of the U.S. to the people.

Time for the US government to play by the same set of rules China follows.

Time to cancel all trade agreements, write policies that actually support the people of the U.S..

Countries like China will have to write labor standards and environmental standards that match those of the U.S., or at least begin to level the playing field. In the mean time, the US will slap tariffs on foreign made goods that fail to enact trade standards.

The next step is to vastly restrict foreign ownership of U.S. property, and force large amounts of U.S. property to be sold back to U.S. citizens, International Corporations need not apply, they are not US citizens. Grossly limit the amount of land anyone can own, until after the dust settles. Give naturalized U.S. citizens first crack, to pay back for all the welfare granted to immigrants to pull the rug from under our feet.

At the same time, make it extremely easy to default on debt. Time to end all the scams, put regulations back in place, restrict what interest rates can be charged, and put the corporations back into their place.

That would be the right thing to do.

Out of curiosity, how do the American public try and intervene and help sort these issues out, is there anything they can do? Of course a lot of people seem to get vocal on ATS and Facebook, but beyond that - are they doing anything about it, or just having opinions?

In the UK when our Government mess things up, new political parties form. Take for instance this Farage video from a week ago or so, from about 12 mins in: "If you had done this in the first place" he says "this party most likely would not exist today."

He worked in the City and just became so appalled at the Gov that he decided to get into politics, and look where they are today - slowly but surely becoming one of the most powerful influences.

www.youtube.com...

Is it possible for US to have a third or fourth party beyond Demos and Repubs - and if so do any of these other parties stand a chance? This is the world economy we're talking about, I would've thought Americans might start voting in parties that may be up to the task of handling it a little more efficiently? Sorry if this seems rude and abrupt, it's not meant to be - there's a lot about American politics I don't really understand, nor the monetary system and ins and outs. It just seems like...not many people actually try and intervene beyond just talking about it :/

On a side note, and personal opinion - I used to dream of becoming a US citizen or spending my later years living in the USA. But over the past 5 to 10 years this dream has dwindled to the point where I don't want to anymore. Real shame. All those prosperous ideas I had as a younger man long since faded with the year on year massacres in high schools, Govt herding people like brain-dead sheep and now this final nail in the coffin, economy down the #ter. I think a "World De-Americanized" is a pretty good prospect right now. I know a lot of good Americans DO take action.. I just wonder, can they be doing something more? Get a little more cut-throat perhaps? Revolt? Anything! This is your country, your world - protect it!!!

reply to post by Crakeur

...there's one small problem. who bails out nations?

Nation-states are puny compared to corporate states - I suspect we're looking at buy-outs NOT bail-outs.

GE, World's Largest Corporation, Paid Zero Dollars in U.S. Taxes Last Year

25 US Mega Corporations: Where They Rank If They Were Countries

If Wal-Mart were a country, its revenues would make it on par with the GDP of the 25th largest economy in the world by, surpassing 157 smaller countries.

We've found 25 major American corporations whose 2010 revenues surpass the 2010 Gross Domestic Product of entire countries, often with a few billion to spare.

Even some major countries like Norway, Thailand, and New Zealand can be bested by certain U.S. firms.

Meet the Global Financial Elites Controlling $46 Trillion In Wealth

Hrrrrm

So much fancy talk about economic solutions, trade with a nation that has 5x our populace somehow being imbalanced, economic solutions....

We spend 1.2 Trillion dollars a year on Military when you include black budget junk... more when you include NSA and all sorts of other nonsense...

Since 2000, that's just over 17 Trillion dollars...

wait....

Isn't the current crisis over 17 trillion dollar cap?

What are the Chinese saying wrong? We are a real bunch of idiots in that regard no? North Korea we can't invade because they have Six Nukes and a bunch of Chickens loaded into 1960's level missile technology infected with Salmonella or whatever their bio weapons program is? But WE have to spend a trillion plus a year to be safe when our only actual borders are Canada and Mexico?

Fancy economic and solutions aside, we are like an idiot who has 300 in bills a month earns 400 and spends 150 on gun collecting every month.

Our problems actually could be fixed in a few short years if we got out of everyones business and cut it out with the war machine nonsense.

Talking today to people.

Thinking that the best way to fix the world.....

If a car is going to be driven in Australia, make it here. Likewise any other countries....and not just cars, clothes, everything.

There is no problem sharing technology... That should be at the forefront, but if you have people in other countries working at 10c a day to build that car, the vehicles price should be equitable to production cost....

Now, so things play fair on a sporting field, players salaries are capped.... Why aren't CEO and the like capped to add fairness to the end price?

xuenchen
reply to post by Crakeur

 

China Calls for World to Be 'De-Americanised'

Obviously, somebody *thinks* "Americanized" is a dirty term.

That's the problem.

What do they expect the reactions to be ?

xuenchen, have you actually considered what China means when they say the world needs to be "De-Americanised"? The very last paragraph in the source article begins to hint at what they really mean:

It also called for an end to the use of the US dollar as the international reserve currency, a step that would ensure the international community could maintain a safe distance from the side-effects of domestic political turmoil in the United States.

Isn't that exactly what you want? You said that you want to default on the debt and distance the US economy from the rest of the world... if you choose that path then you also must accept that the US dollar has a high chance of not remaining as the world reserve currency or default petrodollar. But you must also keep in mind the fact that if that happens the US will no longer have the natural economic advantages of having the world reserve currency and default petrodollar.

And I wouldn't underestimate the importance of those things. Many Middle Eastern nations have attempted to sell their oil for a currency other than US dollars and they were invaded and overthrown by Western nations. There is a reason why those nations are targeted so harshly when they attempt to undermine the petrodollar. Without having the world reserve currency or the petrodollar status, the US must conduct business on an even international playing field.

So if you want to default on the debt and give up on this stupid debt based money system then you must also be willing to have world finance be De-Americanized. That's just how it is, you cannot expect to have it both ways. Like I've been trying to tell you from the very start, things are not going to be as simple and easy as you seem to think they will be. Which ever path the US chooses is going to be difficult. But I do agree starting fresh is the right option.

Crakeur
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

so, if we stop paying china and don't repay the trillion dollars owed them, you don't think that will cause a ripple over there?

if china loses US sales, they won't suffer?


Countries have been lending each other money and there's this massive spiderweb of connections between nations, each strand a loan. When a country goes broke, that strand breaks. When it's a small country, like Iceland, the larger countries, like the US, can withstand the loss but smaller nations, like greece, cannot. When greece goes belly up, slightly larger nations, like spain, will suffer the lost monies.

When the big fat US goes belly up, everyone suffers. No more foreign aid. No more economic support via low import export rates. No more debt service.

The US and other nations have been propping up various sectors over the years and now the biggest sector of them all is set to topple. The countries are the next industry to need a bail out but there's one small problem. who bails out nations?

My point is, that the loans are based on some kind of imaginary number that is supposed to represent some form of value, it is after all fiat currency which doesn't seem to be based on anything rational. In fact, I think in many cases they use Baye's Theorem, which allows for subjective feelings about a situation.

We need to forget about the loans and reset the system. Loans should be simply forgiven and be done with it. Start basing currency on actual values.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by xuenchen


pumasunleashed.wordpress.com...

I take it that you have read the above ?

steaming
reply to post by xuenchen

 

pumasunleashed.wordpress.com...

I take it that you have read the above ?

Only if we would agree.

The U.S. has the power and the upper hand.

But ......?

MissMegs
...

If a car is going to be driven in Australia, make it here. Likewise any other countries....and not just cars, clothes, everything.

No thank you, I will like to keep me Mercedes-Benz--you can keep your Holden

It costs the government (ie: the taxpayer) to continue buildig sub-standard cars here in Austraia; Yet the government makes more money for each MB sold here than Mercedes-Benz, due to luxury car import tax.

Like I said--Keep ya #in Holden pfft

Some of you guys look at this completely wrong.

China would be more than happy to lose 1 trillion dollars worth of bonds, if they could have the world reserve currency. They would easily give up 1 trillion, they'd make 100's of trillions in the future.

So the U.S.A has lost it's power and upper hand.

Expect China to dump it all, one day soon. All the bills and all of the debt will come back to our shores and hyperinflation will hit suddenly.

China will take the position of holding the new world reserve currency, and officially the world super power.

to add to X's excellent comment:
in the I ching, the oldest book in the world which is also Chinese, if war bankrupts the state the state is considered the loser of the war

excelent AV there BYU..thats the second best kind of wrack

I agree with many of the points made but I find it interesting China would say this now. They have benefited from and have been an enabler of these unsustainable policies from wall street and the US government for many years now. It has been good for them during those years and only now when they realize they will also have to pay a terrible cost for these unsustainable policies does it become a grave concern.

These issues should have been tackled years ago when there was a chance of fixing the problem. Now all we can do is watch this massive bubble burst and it won't be pretty for China as there the bubble is the biggest with about a decade of 10% growth until just recently. Growth levels this high are never sustainable and a huge bubble has been created.

The big concern is this bubble may have been created by the fed and certain wall street parties with full knowledge of what they were doing and what would happen. This bubble is going to pop eventually as it was expanded with unsustainable policies. The show going on in Washington might simply make it pop sooner but one way or another it will pop.

Consider this on topic or off topic, you decide.

A few years back during on of the many "important meetings" between world leaders (G8), didnt America help stop out a plan to null all 3rd world debt effectively giving them a chance? People are suggesting that China and all over countries with money tied into American should 0 their debts and let America start afresh. How can this be seen as a "fair" deal by these people?

I don't mean to offend or annoy anyone by this statement but it does annoy me slightly by the "F you got mine" mentality of some people