Ohio State University Police bring in military vehicle

he Ohio State University Police Division has acquired a vehicle fit for war.

The vehicle comes suited with a turret designed for mounting an automatic firearm, armored siding, bulletproof glass and a frame high enough to allow it to travel through three feet of water.

Ohio State University Police bring in military vehicle

I tried to post this in the Posse Comitatus forum, but there was no button there for me to use. This seemed like the closest subject forum, but mods please move it if this is not the case.

For years, the military has been handing out surplus weaponry to various police departments around the country. There have been many discussions about it here on ATS.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

We've all become accustomed to it, even though there is a sincere and realistic fear of over militarization of the police.

But an armored vehicle, of the type used in military operations overseas, being handed to a college campus?

It will serve primarily as a mode of transportation and protection for University Police, Denton said. He added the vehicle will be used if a situation arises but will primarily be used in instances where University Police has a strong presence, such as gamedays, Denton said.

So they're going to be hauling this out and parading it around for game days? OSU is a big college campus, which means fairly often. At what point does our society become one like Russia or China where military vehicles are regularly paraded around to constantly remind the populace of what hangs over their heads? At what point is it social engineering to acclimatize the populace that even campus security is ready to go to war?

But I guess it's all okay. Because they're going to take off the turret and paint it black, to make it "less intimidating".

dailycaller.com...
Link to another article, with a little more information, including the Media Affairs Director of OSU bragging about how they were the first agency in the state to aquire such a vehicle. That alone should boggle the mind.

Finally, apologies in advance, I will only be able to sporadically check in on the thread today, but I will do my best to keep up.

reply to post by QuantumCypher

This is a widespread practice, it is part of the militarization of domestic police forces.

You should be worried, I know I am.

QuantumCypher
For years, the military has been handing out surplus weaponry to various police departments around the country. There have been many discussions about it here on ATS.

This part really jumped out at me..... We are fighting many wars, soldiers on the ground are complaining about lacking equipment needed, yet we somehow have "surplus" crap to hand out to our police force? Yeah, smells fishy to me.... Missapropriation of national defense funds is what that sounds like to me.....

reply to post by greencmp

I agree, but the point I was trying to make with this article is that this is the first time I have seen the military police pass off equipment to a college. Pardon my ignorance if I'm wrong, but campus police are NOT actually police officers? If I'm correct in this, that would mean this is a significant step. Arming police with this kind of weapon/vehicle is one thing, but campus security?

reply to post by QuantumCypher


All the colleges I partied at, campus police were just glorified security guards. Granted, some of them were moonlighting police. Got to have the military equipment on campus now, can't call in the national guard to kill the college kids protesting anymore

So they replaced the old armored vehicle with this for free and people are complaining why? Because they call it a military vehicle? So is a Hummer or a Jeep of which this is a glorified version of. And yes at State Schools the are Police. And they have a SWAT team. And its old amored truck needed replaced. Now they have free replacement from an old vehicle that would be a expensive nightmare for the military to maintain to keep it up to its use standards but, nice and cheap for the minimal uses they have for the SWAT guys. We are talking about a campus with 80K plus people a day on it.

No matter how much they try to 'spin' it or justify this, it is obviously ridiculous and not needed. They just want free toys to play. It's a penile extension, thats all.

Why isn't this vehicle being paraded around the southside of Chicago where it could be needed? Or would that be racist? What a waste of equipment. A college campus? You're kidding me! Todays college students aren't going to cause any trouble. They don't have a rebelious bone in their bodies.

Consider this: they got it because the INTEND TO USE IT! No one buys a riding mower if they live in a condo. No one buys children's clothes if the have no children. No one buys guns if the do not intend to use them, at least for target practice or hunting. No one, I mean NO ONE buys a tank unless they plan to use it.

Since we are not at war in Ohio, why has to wonder the mental gymnastics they had to undertake to justify getting this, as the only people the can use it on are the people who helped pay for it.

/sarcasm
Yeah man.. totally unacceptable... The Humvee is a much better choice being its civilian....

.... oh, wait...

/end sarcasm.

If LAPD had access to this type of vehicle the 44 minutes officers endured while involved in a shootout in North Hollywood would not have been 44 minutes long. The wounded officers would have been extracted faster rather than laying on the ground in agony after being shot.

The equipment is generally free and is for Law Enforcement agencies only. While it has military options, its a military vehicle. Just because it has a turret doesn't mean machine guns are going to be attached.

Law Enforcement body armor is not going to stop a high powered rifle. Standard patrol vehicles are not going to stop high powered rounds.

Or would you prefer to side with Obama and ban all guns?

Here is a novel idea... How about people get involved in their local government, speak up and be heard. Offer alternative solutions and if the elected reps screw it up, vote them out of office and elect new ones.

I have no issues with people who don't like this type of vehicle... What I have issues with are the conspiracy rumors based on anything but fact. I have issues with the assumption people make that all law enforcement is going to turn on the people.

crankyoldman
Consider this: they got it because the INTEND TO USE IT! No one buys a riding mower if they live in a condo. No one buys children's clothes if the have no children. No one buys guns if the do not intend to use them, at least for target practice or hunting. No one, I mean NO ONE buys a tank unless they plan to use it.

Since we are not at war in Ohio, why has to wonder the mental gymnastics they had to undertake to justify getting this, as the only people the can use it on are the people who helped pay for it.

Can you please link to incidents where local US law enforcement has used military vehicles for the purpose of killing civilians.

QuantumCypher
reply to post by greencmp

 

I agree, but the point I was trying to make with this article is that this is the first time I have seen the military police pass off equipment to a college. Pardon my ignorance if I'm wrong, but campus police are NOT actually police officers? If I'm correct in this, that would mean this is a significant step. Arming police with this kind of weapon/vehicle is one thing, but campus security?

I do not know about OSU but I can tell with 100% certainty that at University of Louisville the campus police is indeed REAL police officers. U of L is like its own city, and their police officers have arresting jurisdiction. I would imagine any large college would be the same.

Why they would want a military vehicle who knows? I am sure they got it cheap. Ohio winters are rough. Maybe that is why. I would like to know the real answer but all I can do is speculate. I did look at their website and they have mounted patrols as well...which I get with their sports teams and crowd control would be needed.

They have history in Ohio for shooting up campuses.
Remember Kent State in 1970?

Link:
en.wikipedia.org...

The Kent State shootings (also known as the May 4 massacre or the Kent State massacre)[2][3][4] occurred at Kent State University in the U.S. city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of unarmed college students by the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. The guardsmen fired 67 rounds over a period of 13 seconds, killing four students and wounding nine others, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[5]

Some of the students who were shot had been protesting against the Cambodian Campaign, which President Richard Nixon announced during a television address on April 30. Other students who were shot had been walking nearby or observing the protest from a distance.[6][7]

There was a significant national response to the shootings: hundreds of universities, colleges, and high schools closed throughout the United States due to a student strike of four million students,[8] and the event further affected the public opinion—at an already socially contentious time—over the role of the United States in the Vietnam War.[9]

k21968
I do not know about OSU but I can tell with 100% certainty that at University of Louisville the campus police is indeed REAL police officers. U of L is like its own city, and their police officers have arresting jurisdiction. I would imagine any large college would be the same.

OSU Public Safety / Police Department

They are certified law enforcement and have the same authority as any other police agency in the state of Ohio.

reply to post by Xcathdra


One point I would make in response to your post, is that this vehicle, while it will stand up to standard civilian available ammo and even most high end hunting gear, I would have thought it would be nuts useless against a sustained anti armour heavy weapon assault, military grade 50 cal rifle and armour peircing rounds, or at least only as useful as a standard vehicle would be, in terms of offering a break in the line of sight between shooter and target. Modern mil-spec rifles and ammunition can penetrate armoured vehicles if shots are placed correctly.

Although the tank killer rifle is a thing of the past, mostly due to advancements in armour technology applied to main battle tanks, this thing is NOT anywhere close to one of those. The windows, although they may be made of all kinds of magic, are not going to stand up to the most powerful rifles available to criminals and crazies in the US. The vehicle may be able to stand up to all manner of detonating abuse, but I will tell you this for free, it could sure as hell be thrown in the air, turned upside down, and dropped in a crater by a fat IED, planted in such a way as to lift the vehicle and the ground under it at ballistic pace.

They say that this thing is for law enforcement to use when the crap has REALLY hit the fan, but lets be real about this for a second. If the crap REALLY hits the fan, then the threats this thing and its crew compliment will have to stand up to, actually exceed its ability to withstand them by some considerable degree. You have to remember that back in that Hollywood stand off, back in the day, those fellows were all about laying down fat gouts of suppresive fire, mingled with some aimed bursts which were actually designed to be kill shots or maiming at least.

Modern gear and access to strategic information on the part of criminals nowadays is much improved however, and if something like that happened again, it wouldnt be massive chain fed things those fellows would be weilding, and it wouldnt be just two guys. It would be two guys with FNP-90s bought from professional arms smugglers, throwing out a thousand or so rounds a minute, and a guy with a barret 50 cal on a roof or hill top about a mile, to a half mile from the action. I wouldnt put it past the modern collection of psychopaths to plant a couple of cleverly hidden mines either, surruptitiously hidden under man hole covers for instance, to clear thier escape route if some massive PD machine comes rolling in on them.

Its escalation. Serious criminals are no different to serious terrorists. If they want something doing, they will find a way to do it, and that extends easily as far as figuring out how to destroy an armoured car for the purposes of making good an escape.

reply to post by TrueBrit


A good counter point / observation...

The flaw in that argument is everything that is created by human hands has a chance to fail and then some. The intent behind purchasing these vehicles is not to engage forces with anti tank / anti truck capabilities. Should an event occur on American soil where anti tank missiles are being used I doubt engagement will be restricted to solely law enforcement agencies.

While people like to invoke Posse Comitatus, they seldom understand what the law is, how it works and who its applied to.

The north Hollywood shootout set a standard change in law enforcement tactics and weaponry.

* - The 2 guys who started that mess were dressed head to tow in body armor.
* - The standard issue weapons to the LAPD was not enough to penetrate that body armor.
* - The weapons being used against law enforcement were superior.

During that incident, the LAPD officers were issued orders to take head shots in an effort to stop the threat, since shooting center mass was no longer an option due to the body armor.

During that incident LAPD officers had to go to a local gun shop and secure high powered rifles in an effort to level the playing field and to stop the threat.

During that incident LAPD had to commandeer an armored bank car in order to retrieve wounded persons as well as to get people trapped in the cross fire out of the vicinity.

The response to this incident created a first in LA Police History. They had to issue a city wide tactical alert, and when it was said and done more than 250 + officers from the LAPD and surrounding agencies responded to the situation.

Common practice at the time is to secure the perimeter and wait for SWAT to respond. Common practice was to only allow SWAT the ability to use certain types of weapons.

The Massacre at Columbine High School was the second change in normal procedure. In that instance it was common practice to, again, secure the perimeter and wait for SWAT to arrive on scene. The aftermath of that event changed that, allowing officers to take immediate action the moment they arrive on scene / have a second officer with them.

My department has 1 military surplus vehicle. That vehicle is not reserved solely to SWAT. The primary purpose of that vehicle is to allow officers to reach an area that would otherwise be impossible to reach due to the threat present. We have trained in using this vehicle to respond to active shooter situations, including training at our schools.

The training situations involved not just the police department, but school officials and area business owners (larger businesses) so they know what to expect. Our agency likes to keep the community in the loop on our operations and reasons for obtaining some of the equipment we have. As an example our High School is relatively new, meaning there are no trees and on 3 of the 4 sides its farm land. That open area makes it extremely dangerous to approach the school should an incident occur.

Some people may think the 4th side of the school is the safe approach. To them I say an active shooter may very well know that and formulate their plan taking that into account. The armored vehicle we have allows us to approach through those open areas in a safer manner than if we are on foot.

There are other factors to consider that are generally not discussed in the public realm.

As an example regional disaster plan training. If a major disaster were to occur standard police vehicles are not going to be able to access every area. I can say with certainty a standard patrol vehicle is not going to be able to make it very far in 3 feet of water, let alone 1 or 2 feet, depending on the distance of travel to a shallow area.

While people see hospitals as places of refuge, in a mass situation those institutions are going to run very low on key supplies, like medication. That medication is going to need to be brought in from outside the area, making those shipments vulnerable, requiring an escort or even loading those supplies into the armored vehicles themselves to ensure delivery and distribution.

I can continue giving examples of there usefulness in situations but you get the idea. As I stated I have no issues with people watching government actions. My only request is to think it all the way through before making a leap of illogic and assuming the worst.

Beartracker16
They have history in Ohio for shooting up campuses.
Remember Kent State in 1970?

]

One campus shooting in the past 43 years hardly qualifies as a "history".

YOu are stereotyping Ohio colleges as dangerous and that is not fair nor the case.

k21968

Beartracker16
They have history in Ohio for shooting up campuses.
Remember Kent State in 1970?

]

One campus shooting in the past 43 years hardly qualifies as a "history".

YOu are stereotyping Ohio colleges as dangerous and that is not fair nor the case.

Just to add another observation he is stereotyping by trying to link the actions of the Ohio National Guard with that of Campus Law Enforcement. They are not the same and times have changed in the 43 years since.

reply to post by MrSpad

In the same sense an apache is a glorified helicopter and a drone is a glorified remote control plane.
A few questions for you then. What was wrong with the previous armored vehicle that it needed tto be replaced? And where will it be going? How is it cheaper for OSU to maintain it than the military? In the article the media director says it's barely been used, so if that's the case, why not redeploy it for use elsewhere rather than spending more money we don't have to buy a new one for the field? And it's not rarely going to be used, it's going to be paraded out for each of their games and some other special events.
And finally, my main point of the article, don't you see something wrong if they feel they need to pull this out and make downtown Columbus Ohio look like a militarized zone for a football game?

reply to post by Psykotik

Here's a question for you then...do you think the police who don't suffer that mindset will grow into it with their bigger...toys? Or do you think we'll be able to count on the good guys to help reign in the bullies?

reply to post by ItCameFromOuterSpace

I agree with you to a point...I don't agree that police SHOULD be getting this level of hardware, but if they have to, aren't there better places it could be used? Detroit comes to mind. Columbus doesn't have the crime or riot rate to justify this type of vehicle.