reply to post by hounddoghowlie
I brought that up, but I was also thinking of the fact it's a college campus...and college kids are legendary for their stupidity, especially in
You make some interesting points, and I will come back when I have a bit more time and reply. I did want to point out, in my opinion, an oversight
you and some others are making with regards to these types of vehicles and who should get them.
Military programs are usually based on a list of law enforcement agencies who are wanting access to the pass down items. If an agency is not on the
list, they don't get the ability to participate. Once an agency is on the list, their placement on that list determines their order in getting items.
If an agency is at the bottom of the list, then they get access to whatever remains that the agencies above them did not choose.
As for the discussion about Campus police not needing this item as opposed to the Sheriffs department -
If an incident occurs inside municipal boundaries, that municipality is responsible for the response unless they either:
A - Request assistance and cede jurisdiction to the other agency.
B - Are in a state where the State Police can assume jurisdiction regardless (not many states use this setup).
Generally speaking agencies plan based on their crime trends and not what other agencies are doing. I can easily see a need for this type of vehicle
in a Campus / high population area than a rural setting. Sheriffs departments that contain large population cities within their county base their
needs on the unincorporated areas, not the municipal areas.
While you and others view a campus scenario dealing with out of control college students, you guys seem to be ignoring the fact that mass shootings
seem to be occurring in areas with higher people density - Malls, Marathons, Military Installations (and yes local law enforcement can be responsible
for military installations), College Campuses.
As I pointed out an active shooter scenario can happen fast and the body count can run high (imo 1 death is one to many). If you have more than one
person and their goal is simply nothing more than a high body count, then waiting any amount of time for an armored vehicle can be counted in body
count. Schools / College campuses are by their nature weapons free zones, meaning Campus Police are the first line of defense so to speak. If a
group of people storm a building / dorm and know how to set up kill zones it becomes extremely difficult to get officers near those areas on foot.
Another point is if Police are able to get into the area on foot, they the run into the problem of protecting civilians. The protocol is to get them
out of harms way as soon as humanly possible. That becomes problematic when the officers have no other means to evacuate those students except on
foot, which means officers will be required to oversee that evacuation while providing cover for them. The armored vehicle can resolve some of those
man power issues.
Those vehicle can also be used to breach any type of roadblock (situation specific obviously but you get the idea) where the standard patrol car may
not. Again the standard patrol car would become a major concern in terms of lack of protection while being in the option trying to breach a
The armored vehicle can level that playing field... They can be used for evacuation, locating resources, locating personnel, transport of medical
personnel into an unsecured area where medical attention is critical. Also one can look at the cost factor.. Which item is going to hold up better -
An armored vehicle built to specifications for use in extreme environments or a crown vic / dodge charger / ford interceptor?
How much damage can beer bottles / rocks do to an armored vehicle? How about damage to a crown vic / dodge charger / ford interceptor? People seem to
ignore the fact that a marked vehicle / uniform is the first level of use of force. The goal is to deter by presence and go from there.
As for how they are stored Domo hit the nail on the head. Our vehicle contains no weapons, just communications equipment. Its secured in the same
lot as our patrol vehicles.
Before slamming Campus Police for parading it during games maybe it would be prudent to see how they parade that vehicle and the manner in which they
want to use it. I find it confusing for people to attack the police for wanting some military equipment and assuming the worst while at the same time
criticizing the police for wanting to show that item to the community to let them A - know they have a new resource and B - letting the people get to
see it and ask real questions about its use / purpose etc.
I would think if law enforcement had sinister intentions they would not be broadcasting their resources and letting the community at large see it.
just my 2 cents... btw my sarcastic response was just that and was based on the argument about military equipment being bad while people ignored the
fact the Humvee started out military, is still used by them, used by law enforcement, and available to the general public.
I did not accuse you of advocating gun control.. What I did was to point out that law enforcement has needs based on the fact civilians can purchase
military grade weapons. The choice there is to allow law enforcement the ability to counter those threats or to adopt a policy of disarming the
population to the extent those weapons wont threaten law enforcement, removing the need for the military equipment.
My point is Law enforcement must be flexible to deal with those people who go for the military type weapons and use them on civilians / police. My
concern are the criminals who are gunning for me with a high powered rifle / .50 cal, not the law abiding citizens whom I may very well depend on to
assist me because they have military grade equipment when I do not.
Which is exactly what occurred in the North Hollywood shootout - LAPD had to rely on a private business for assault weapons to counter the assault
rifles being used against them. LAPD had to rely on a private business for an armored vehicle to safely enter the scene to evacuate wounded / trapped
civilians and law enforcement.
While it may seem like it worked out for the best, one must realize and understand the liability assumed when we commandeer civilian equipment for
edit on 28-9-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-9-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason