Aliens and UFOs in a Quantum Universe

I have no doubt there are people who believe they have been abducted by aliens but in this
world can not prove it and the same could be said for many sightings seen by some and not others.
One explanation might reflect the quantum universe where this may be one of many worlds - And some,
if not all, of the UFO/alien phenomenon may reflect this - 'They' exist somewhere but not necessarily here in the usually so-called normal and local universe - but they do exist in any number of alternative, and yet still real, universes visible to some people and yet not to others - Jacques Vallee went into this in on one of his books making the observation that in areas where UFO or occult type phenomena was occurring some otherwise credible people
saw it while others saw nothing.

If you grant the interpretation that some physicists imply to quantum physics indicating that more than one
universe is not only possible but in fact probable, could this be an explanation of the enigmatic nature of the
UFO/Alien phenomenon and why it is so hard to prove?

Possible... or the hyper advanced aliens don't want there to be conclusive proof. Also possible. I mean really, they'd hold all the cards. How could we, if they are so advanced compared to us, prove their existence if the actively don't want us to? They don't need to be from another dimension really. Just not want the truth to be known and have the tech make it happen.

But yes it might be possible.

reply to post by AlienView


The universe is large enough even if this particular time space continuum which we share is not infinite in itself, there is also a possible near infinite (No such thing as near infinite but you know what I mean) number of other time space continuum's and then there is the true universe that we can not perceive but has been given the name Super space by quantum physicists and though only hypothetical it may actually be a real infinite universe in which all time space continuum exist - a place of infinite dimension and no dimension.

Have you ever noted how the human mind can affect the quantum state merely through conscious observation and how this is a quandary that traditional physicists have trouble accepting (As do many though not all atheists), this effect in itself may mean that our conscious mind acts almost like a band pass filter blocking out many reality's and subconsciously charting a path that we call reality or our dimension. Some good example's of this effect are the behavior of photons - when observed they act in a particulate fashion and when not observed they demonstrate wave behavior and of course the analogy made by the great physicist called Schrodinger's cat in the box that states the quantum state of an object is not decided until it has been observed and all possible outcomes are equally real until the outcome is observed (another example of how the mind 'changes or navigates' the universe).

Thinking on this and assuming alien beings may exist in close enough proximity to visit our world then is there mind the same in this function and indeed does this function itself enforce a differential reality on these different consciousnesses, Could this actual effect be used by a alien culture by farming races on multiple worlds and using them to control the reality wave.

Just something to ponder.

S+F

reply to post by AlienView


Meh -- our observable universe is large enough for me to believe there are probably intelligent beings elsewhere in it, regardless of whether or not there are other universes (although I'm not yet convinced that those ETs are visiting the Earth, but that's a whole separate issue).

I don't need to think about parallel universes/other universes to see the huge potential in our own universe for other life to exist.

A potential issue here, as is the case with much of the discussion of anything relating to the quantum world, is that because of its mystery and most people's ignorance of it (mine included), it has sort of become a placeholder for making possible whatever someone needs an answer for.

Even if we knew the laws of the quantum world and even if we knew there were, say, nineteen dimensions ... or we knew there were infinite universes and that within them, conditions existed where worlds like ours flourished with people and thoughts and all, even if all that was true, there's still an unbelievably expansive gap between knowing these things and taking a giant leap in considering the ability for an entity of any sort to have any interaction that would involve existing in or manipulating the properties of different universes.

Sure, I suppose it's possible ... to the extent that in a quantum world where there definitely are multiple dimensions and infinite universes, nearly by definition, anything would be possible ... but that doesn't necessarily, for most people, account for a snowball's chance ...

As pertains to aliens and UFOs, the myriad explanations we already invent for them seem so much more plausible when contemplating whether they could be from universes outside our own. I mean, I'd wager on demons from hell or even tulpas before I'd go with extra universally originated beings.

I also find it unlikely that the brain of any being can handle processing the laws of multiple universes to the extent that they can simultaneously exist and be aware of more than one. If such a being did exist, I find it improbable communication of any sort could exist between us and them. I'm feeling like it would be like me trying to discuss the finer points of a Ted Baxter tirade from the Mary Tyler Moore Show with a parameceum.

reply to post by Hadrian

I also find it unlikely that the brain of any being can handle processing the laws of multiple universes to the extent that they can simultaneously exist and be aware of more than one. If such a being did exist, I find it improbable communication of any sort could exist between us and them. I'm feeling like it would be like me trying to discuss the finer points of a Ted Baxter tirade from the Mary Tyler Moore Show with a parameceum.

Two points come to mind. First we are already have a being [man] that is attempting to "handle processing the laws of multiple universes to the extent that they can simultaneously exist and be aware of more than one" - are we
not in fact doing that when postulating more than one universe as in:

The many-worlds interpretation is an interpretation of quantum mechanics that asserts the objective reality of the universal wavefunction and denies the actuality of wavefunction collapse. Many-worlds implies that all possible alternative histories and futures are real, each representing an actual "world" (or "universe")

And your other point: " I find it improbable communication of any sort could exist between us and them. I'm feeling like it would be like me trying to discuss the finer points of a Ted Baxter tirade from the Mary Tyler Moore Show with a parameceum." Yes, I agree and that is why I hypothesize the enigmatic nature of the 'so-called'
alien phenomenon - real difficult to communicate with beings from another universe which for all we know
may have different laws of physics and beings that might communicate differently - stretches the limits
of imagination - but in the quantum universe is still possible.

reply to post by AlienView

Yes, but what I kinda meant on point one was actually being aware of multiple universes, but also understanding and manipulating their laws, so that in one of the typical quantum scenarios, we would actually do something to ourselves that allowed us to systematically observe all quantum possibilities within our presence "in" each of them. Not so much just theoretical reckonings - or even experimental inference. Aliens, in this scenario, I assume, would actually be governing their transference between universes or, at the least, allowing their observation in one universe while being from another ... or something like that. That's an altogether bigger step than where we are.

BTW, thanks for an interesting thought-exercise thread.

"If you can imagine it, you can achieve it. If you can dream it, you can become it."

- William Arthur Ward , 1921-1994


This timeless quote actually defines human capability. Think of all of the "impossible" ideas that people have had in our brief history of time, that are now reality. The implication is, that anything you can contemplate that does not exist today, some how, some way, in some future time Will exist.

So, take the example of Time Travel. For all we know, it is still not possible, but because of our very nature, it will be , some day. So, what would you do with such a capability? You would certainly use it to fill in the gaps of lost history, for one thing.

And if you (we) did that, then we are certainly going to be observed in some way.... but we could not interfere or interact with wherever we travel in the past, lest we basically change the future and most likely effect our even being born....

So, that is what I think the majority of UFO's really are. They are the self-righteous us, coming back for a look at how we screwed something up or to witness an historical event that is missing the details lost in time. Not a new idea, but think about it.... If we do learn how to travel back in time, we on Earth present, are going to see something that we cannot explain.

Originally posted by AlienView
If you grant the interpretation that some physicists imply to quantum physics indicating that more than one
universe is not only possible but in fact probable, could this be an explanation of the enigmatic nature of the
UFO/Alien phenomenon and why it is so hard to prove?

Maybe their missions are highly secretive and they are careful not to leave physical evidence. After all, surely they know how material proof is our intellectual standard.

reply to post by g2v12

That is possible. But is is also possible that they can not leave physical evidence or communicate with humans
in this world [universe] because they are not in this world or universe - They are in a parallel world possible in
the quantum universe - whether beings in these worlds can inter-act with humans remains to be seen.- unless you believe it is being seen by 'some' and not others - for reasons beyond current understanding some people are interacting with beings from a parallel world - occasionally abducted and set back into this one and all they might have to show for it is 'missing time' and or an unexplained implant.

Just to interject in the discussion between Hadrian and AlienView (Good Avatars by the way).

There was a recent article in the new scientist magazine which talked about the possibility that human mind itself may be a product of parallel reality's near identical interacting and this can explain such random and hard to quantify phenomena as the famous intuition or gut feeling meaning that some part of that near identical crossover is actually somehow imparted at least at a subconscious level to the mind (not necessarily the brain itself but the energy field that crosses over between these multiple parallel brains, so when you taste something bad and you flinch from it that strong reaction may be passed through this active energy matrix), it is important to consider there is actually not an immovable block between these very near parallel reality's and they can also merge back together.
Many time's in paranormal account's of post death encounters with the deceased such as one story were a young soldier had been killed overseas and at what was reckoned to be the same time neighbor's clearly witnessed the young man approach his home even exchanging none verbal wave's and he smiled at them, his parent's heard a knock at the door and upon opening it no one was there, when the neighbors asked how young johnny was and were told he was dead and they said by we saw him only yesterday walking up the street to your house, - this is not unique and there are many similar examples around the world.
So going back to that multiple reality multiple brain spanning mind idea is it not conceivable that even after death in at least some circumstance such as the random encounter with a stray bullet that the sudden death of one body may not in fact mean the end of the mind supported now not by the brain but by the consciousness energy field which spans more than one reality and could these aliens in fact be either from a further reality were perhaps another race of man evolved or even be a realization of a stage in the ongoing evolution of this other form once it is free of the pupae state of the body.

I said near parallel universes can merge and I am going to hypothesize a function that may allow such for slightly less close reality's and you already know it the infamous black hole or too be more precise the Event horizon of the black hole which is the interesting part in this discussion.
Take a large star like for example Betelgeuse star, now as you know it may eventually collapse into a black hole now how many parallel universe does this same star exist and how many is it identical and will collapse at the same exact instant in the same exact fashion, now as it does the edge of the star becomes something called the event horizon, this is the point which pulls the super field of the universe taut and unravels all matter and energy creating a point of perfect void and gravitational intensity and this point may act like a zipper pulling these identical parallel reality's back into a homogeneous singular reality, a wave of this will roll out at the speed of light or at least the speed of gravity growing weaker with distance but the effect is the opposite of when two electrons go in opposite directions and creates two reality's.
Now even a near omnipotent alien species would find it near impossible to control this but the control of the mind of a race or even genetically engineering species just for this very purpose would allow some control over the nature of the reality they were engineering tough at a near infinitely more subtle and weaker level.

And Hadrian you are right in that we do not yet even fully understand the function of electromagnetism, creating a theory based on known property's will always leave the unknown element out of the equations and so over time the science accumulates more and more error's eventually resulting in the need to construct artificial hypothesis to explain these errors and calibrate the theory's back on track which then makes the science effective again even when it may be totally wrong at the basic fundamental level's and this can be shown to be the case in the current abuse of chaos theory by many physicists whom do not want to scrap a theory they have dedicated there lives too so attribute sporadic results to chaos which is fine when dealing with exponentially complicated reactions but in reality is merely a stop gap excuse so they can keep the bursary's coming in and essentially putting us back hundreds if not thousands of years as we are building on flawed model's.

Aliens do not have to be more intelligent than us, they just need better and more competent science.

I am biased as I do actually believe in god but I also believe in science though the science need's to be correct and what is god if not another being not us.

There is no evidence that aliens/ETs come from a parallel universe/quantum reality. Using a figment of some physicists' imagination (following physicist Hugh Everett) to explain not quantum phenomena in the laboratory but a phenomenon whose existence many of them would dispute does not amount to sound, scientific theorizing. Rather, it flies in the face of Occam's Razor, the principle used by scientists to filter competing explanations, namely, do not use more complicated hypotheses if a simple one is available, namely, that some aliens come from somewhere off the planet Earth. The only motive that some people have for rejecting this simple scenario and exploring more hypothetical/fanciful ones is the old problem about stars being too far away to make the journey practical. But this ignores the possibility that some aliens have been travelling the cosmos in the manner of the USS Enterprise in Star Trek for many years and may have nearby bases - perhaps even on Earth! If so, they wouldn't have to travel millions of light years every time they land here. It also assumes that they would not have developed warp-speed technologies, despite being millions of years ahead of us in evolution. Finally, the objection to aliens and UFOs having parallel quantum worlds for their homes is that the notion is totally misconceived from a strict, scientific point of view. Those parallel quantum worlds, which some physicists argue are splitting off continually every time some one makes an observation, contain human beings as well, and so they cannot be solely where aliens originate. Which rather destroys the whole point of entertaining such a fanciful theory, doesn't it?

reply to post by micpsi

Yes but then if you were to used Occam's razor it may be far less difficult to pass between parallel reality than it is to pass over 147.325 linear light years at a linear velocity that in principle may be nowhere near to the speed of light and even if relativistic velocity could be obtained of let us say 1/3rd the speed of light (E) then the time it would take to get here would be 441.975 years not factoring in the time to accelerate and the time to decelerate which may at those speed's even double the time, now while a particularly long lived species or even an artificial intelligence may be likely if it had the wish or reason to do so it is to all intent's and purposes an impractical proposition (unless you were going to colonize a likely world, nevertheless the possibility that they originate from a none human terrestrial species or even non terrestrial solar species from one of the other planets likely mars were our life may have actually begun must not be discounted and remains even in the face of a lack of empirical evidence (that we know of - and the infra red image of sidonea near the face on mars comes to mind showing what appears to be a buried city - plenty of images of it and other anomaly's on this page www.google.co.uk... Z54GIDA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=971 ) that we know is still the best candidate though not the only one and the others are not ruled out by Occam's razor merely placed further back in the que of potential suspects.

Good point though.

reply to post by micpsi

Those parallel quantum worlds, which some physicists argue are splitting off continually every time some one makes an observation, contain human beings as well, and so they cannot be solely where aliens originate. Which rather destroys the whole point of entertaining such a fanciful theory, doesn't it?

When dealing with any phenomenon not understood, or completely explainable by current observation any theory, especially if it can be backed by scientific theory,
might be worth entertaining even if it for now seems fanciful. Einstein's theory on relativity appeared fanciful
to many when first presented but history and science later validated it. But I will agree that to interpret
quantum theory to imply a limitless, even infinite, number of realities or universes seems to have flaws and
who actually understands what is limitless or infinite? - does limitlessness or infinity actually exist? - I have
my doubts. Still just the possibility of alternative realities or universes would seem to be worth entertaining
until proven to be impossible - for now it is still possible.

reply to post by AlienView

But then again who are we to limit the paradigms of reality when no one knows for sure what reality is and
whether or not it has any limits - There could indeed be a limitless, infinite number of worlds though this
might be hard to accept by man because of his limited nature in this world.

Originally posted by AlienView
reply to post by g2v12

 

That is possible. But is is also possible that they can not leave physical evidence or communicate with humans
in this world [universe] because they are not in this world or universe - They are in a parallel world possible in
the quantum universe - whether beings in these worlds can inter-act with humans remains to be seen.- unless you believe it is being seen by 'some' and not others - for reasons beyond current understanding some people are interacting with beings from a parallel world - occasionally abducted and set back into this one and all they might have to show for it is 'missing time' and or an unexplained implant.

Depends on how you interpret the data. Its difficult to obtain raw data. The authors collect and correlate, then they interpret according to their unique theorem, which of course sells books. To some degree, we all try to make the facts fit the crime.

As far as anyone knows, they may be built of the same matter as we, except that they can do things we that seem fantastic, if not paranormal. If we had their knowledge and technical prowess, what would others think of us?

A good exercise in utilizing quantum forces might enable us to travel instantly to far off places.

reply to post by g2v12

A good exercise in utilizing quantum forces might enable us to travel instantly to far off places.

Agreed. Instead of a wormhole as in the sci-fi classic Stargate SG-1 you might find a parallel universe/dimension
where time and space operate differently and you might be able to jump to one universe that would allow you
to jump back in to this one at a point many light years from where you started hence Stargate SG-2; but this
for now is still far off but in the realm of the possible - why I find quantum physics so interesting - leads
to quantum speculation where science trumps science fiction.

Originally posted by AlienView
reply to post by g2v12

 

A good exercise in utilizing quantum forces might enable us to travel instantly to far off places.

Agreed. Instead of a wormhole as in the sci-fi classic Stargate SG-1 you might find a parallel universe/dimension
where time and space operate differently and you might be able to jump to one universe that would allow you
to jump back in to this one at a point many light years from where you started hence Stargate SG-2; but this
for now is still far off but in the realm of the possible - why I find quantum physics so interesting - leads
to quantum speculation where science trumps science fiction.

Right. And that's one thing I always thought about. How quantum forces utilized by flesh and bone humanoids might cause effects interpreted as paranormal activity, and the whole jonrah about interdenominational beings, being non-material and so forth.

reply to post by g2v12

Right. And that's one thing I always thought about. How quantum forces utilized by flesh and bone humanoids might cause effects interpreted as paranormal activity, and the whole jonrah about interdenominational beings, being non-material and so forth.

Even better. I was watching the series "Through the Wormhole" and just re-watched the episode on black holes.
Apparently, and coming out of quantum mechanics, two of todays leading physicists, Steven Hawking and David
Susskind were divided on what happens inside a black hole and Susskind came to the theory which now stands,
that there are two realities; The physical one we exist in AND a holographic image projected outside the universe!!!
I'm not making this up; watch it yourself if you don't believe me:
topdocumentaryfilms.com...

Now are you ready for Stargate SG-2 where travel to wherever becomes possible? It is now more than possible
that we can do this - and how about the aliens who already are doing it?

Punters have a hard enough time going to see Copperfield and being amazed that an elephant can disappear right before thier eyes, or that Angel can walk down the side of a building...and they're not aliens...

Å99