Radiation in Hawaii

reply to post by Zaphod58


I watched the video again. There were two readings that Leuren Moret took. One was downwind of the base and the other was somewhere else. The base reading was 63 up to 93 and should have been 5 to 29 per minute. The other reading was 90 counts per minute and she said it is usually about 7. I checked her credentials online because I had not heard of her. They are very impressive. I have to assume that she certainly knows what she's doing. Also it's a strong warning to give and it certainly seems to be based on extensive background experience.

The pineapples (sorry OP) are indicative that it wasn't just a one time fluke thing. (...and trust me, OP, anyone who plans on having children will take the distorted pineapples seriously.)

The volcanoes...yes...I read one study from Italy where the gamma rays were measured. Also cosmic rays should be considered. An observatory dedicated just to seeking those was recently opened. Several scientists have predicted that these could be a real problem.

But the coincidence of the firing practice and the increased radiation levels needs to be addressed. There are fourth generation nuclear weapons that are not considered wmd's because the amounts used are tiny and don't fall into the existing treaties.

From the Lab to the Battlefield? Nanotechnology and Fourth-Generation Nuclear Weapons

In a nutshell, the defining technical characteristic of
fourth-generation nuclear weapons is the triggering - by some advanced
technology such as a superlaser, magnetic compression, antimatter, etc.
- of a relatively small thermonuclear explosion in which a
deuterium-tritium mixture is burnt in a device whose weight and size are
not much larger than a few kilograms and litres. Since the yield of
these warheads could go from a fraction of a ton to many tens of tons of
high-explosive equivalent, their delivery by precision-guided munitions
or other means will dramatically increase the fire-power of those who
possess them - without crossing the threshold of using
kiloton-to-megaton nuclear weapons, and therefore without breaking the
taboo against the first-use of weapons of mass destruction. Moreover,
since these new weapons will use no (or very little) fissionable
materials, they will produce virtually no radioactive fallout. Their
proponents will define them as "clean" nuclear weapons - and possibly
draw a parallel between their battlefield use and the consequences of
the expenditure of depleted uranium ammunition.^12

This is an old article - 2002. A plea for reason, really. The military may not even know that there is depleted uranium in the ammunition they are using. Like the article says, they'll be touted as " 'clean' nuclear weapons" when in reality they ain't.

Regardless of radiation from DU rounds, the sheer number atrocities committed by the US military against the people of Hawaii justifies a thread of it's own, which I swear I'm going to get around to after this semester.

But the fact is, Makua valley on Oahu was unjustly seized from the Hawaiian people in the 1930 by the military for training. The military told the people that they would get the sacred valley back after 6 months, but this never happened. These days, native Hawaiians are allowed on the own sacred land only 2 days a year to celebrate the Hawaiian New Year.

The army has been bombing Makua Valley to Hell ever since, destroying cultural sites including sacred heiau, burial grounds, and historical fishing sites. They often drop ordinance up to 1000 lb bombs (keep in mind this is Oahu, the most heavily populated island, I'm not even talking about the navy shelling the smaller sacred islands to oblivion), un-exploded ordinance is regularly found in the area, and native people are being forced off their land just so it can be blown up. Now whether or not there is radiation from DU rounds, I am of the opinion that the sheer amount of conventional ammunition being fired and detonated all over Makua Valley on a daily basis is not good for the environment.

This is just one of hundreds of sacred sites all over Hawaii which I believe are being purposefully targeted for erasure by the US government. Erase a people's culture, and you effectively erase the people.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to derail this thread, but as someone who lives here and is witness to the longest running continuous desecration of sacred land in the world, I feel obligated to get this off my chest.

live on Maui, and have been here since May of 2011. I have had an awful time trying to get real rad and radioactive particulate information since I've been here. I have read articles in local papers stating that local government agencies are monitoring the water out here, but have never seen or heard about any results being disclosed. I don't trust the radiation network info, as it really doesn't make any sense as to why some of the Japan readings are steadily low..... just seems like bs to me. I imagine if they were detecting radiation in the water, they wouldn't want to broadcast it to the world.... this state is all about tourism, and if people stop vacationing here, we are screwed. I was talking to another local recently about a research boat that was off Lahaina for a few weeks. He claimed he'd talked to some of the crew, when they would come into town, at a local bar. He said that they had told him they are finding traces of radioactive elements in the water, and have been for over a year. He didn't have any specifics, but apparently someone has the info. I think the boat was out of California and had Berkeley students and staff. So, if anyone knows more, I'd really like to find out. Thanks....


Here's a good resource for Fuku info...

m.facebook.com...

reply to post by signalfire

Oddly, they seem to find it dangerous. It completely contradicts whatshisname's contention that DU is safe...of course, his information seems to be anonymous and second or third-hand so it's hardly anything I'd want to bet my life or the life of the entire planet on...

So if your talking about me please explain to me how the Hawaii Department of Health, and the Department of Veterans Affairs are third party or anonymous and second or third hand information?

Here you go do a little research before calling something anonymous or second hand information..

www.va.gov...

BTW they are the second largest department behind the DoD.

Who do you think makes sure things are safe for the people of Hawaii?

health.hawaii.gov...

Do some research, because you are wrong and have been proven wrong many times in this thread already.

And if you want to talk about using third party information then you need to look at your own link...

gulfwarvets.com...

At least the links I provided are from official departments and not some person linking to those sites.

reply to post by ZeroReady

This is just one of hundreds of sacred sites all over Hawaii which I believe are being purposefully targeted for erasure by the US government. Erase a people's culture, and you effectively erase the people.

And what would be the reason the US government has to erase the Hawaiian culture?

Could this have not been done before now if they were going to do that?

reply to post by colbyforce



Where are you? I am down in Hana Bay. The water here was tested in July the solstice from the police station around the corner in front of the hotel and is totally, complete 100% fine. There is a company in Honolulu that does it.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by signalfire

 

I lived in Hawaii for years, and I used to have to test x-ray machine radiation levels (including machines that were in areas that were open air. And you know what the background levels were? Almost nothing. We're talking 0.002 readings. This person is an idiot and has no idea what they're talking about.

The missiles that are fired at Barking Sands are dummies, they have no warhead, no depleted uranium, nothing that could increase radioactivity, not to mention the fact that I could count yearly test firings on one hand, and have most of my fingers left over afterwards.

"Hawaii trips are suicide because of radiation levels". Jesus what a freaking joke. All of my friends, and some of my family still live there, and not one of them has even begun to get sick, nothing unusual is happening there due to radiation levels.

Yeah, but every now and then someone will find an old munition from bygone times that shouldn't technically be there; classified testing and all that. If memory serves, some Davy Crockett's, or their remains, were found.several years ago.

Yup. Davy Crocketts. That was an odd newspaper article no doubt.


Oh, nvm. I guess people from there already mentioned that.

reply to post by signalfire

Oddly, they seem to find it dangerous. It completely contradicts whatshisname's contention that DU is safe...of course, his information seems to be anonymous and second or third-hand so it's hardly anything I'd want to bet my life or the life of the entire planet on...

Well just for some interesting reading you may want to read this...

Scientific agencies outside the DoD and the VA have reviewed the evidence and determined that DU posed minimal risk to human health. The Department of Health and Human Services’ Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, the RAND Corporation, the Institute of Medicine, the United Kingdom Royal Society, the European Commission, and the World Health Organization have all completed studies and concluded that there is no evidence that DU causes cancer.

fhp.osd.mil...

You can read more with links to the above orginizations at the above link.

Originally posted by lynxpilot
A premise based on depleted uranium rounds causing a radiation issue is a HOAX.

Depleted uranium is used because of its density (more than lead) so it is more penetrating against armor. It has nothing to do with radiation. Depleted uranium is almost pure U-238 (vice other isotopes), has a very long half life, therefore it's nuclear activity is very low, and decays in low energy radiation. It came out of the ground, and using it for bullets just puts it right back into the ground. It is very chemically stable, so it's not like leaching would be a hazard either.

hahahahahhhahhahahh .....seriously..I was in the military and they told us to stay away from that #....if its so safe ..build a house out of it and live in it. We are fragile creatures...there have been many many cases of poisoning from this stuff.

reply to post by Leonidas


I lived on Oahu, we were at Hickam for years, then out in Kapolei until I moved. I worked on all the islands before I left though.

reply to post by luxordelphi


The neighbor islands, including Kona, which is where she took the reading that freaked her out and started all this mess, come in at 2 microrem/hr right now. That's it. There is no spike in radiation in Hawaii.

She got a reading that was high. Ok, why didn't she set something up to monitor for a few hours and see what she got instead of just going "ERMAGHERD! RADIATION!" and saying that Hawaii is saturated with radiation? If she was truly interested in proving that DU is causing a "9 times higher background" level in Hawaii, she'd set up an instrument to continuously monitor the area. She won't, because she knows what it would show.

Oh, and by the way, they don't grow pineapple near Kona where the highest reading was. Kona is essentially dead from all the lava fields and being in the rain shadows of Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa. In fact I don't think they ever grew pineapple on the Big Island at all. Which means that if the only place she's claiming to have high radiation is Kona, the pineapple situation is NOT related to what she claims.

Originally posted by signalfire
reply to post by lynxpilot

 

You're so incredibly misinformed I have to wonder if you're here from the government to cover for war crimes.

Feel free to google 'depleted uranium babies in Iraq' and then tell me it's a hoax.

Warning to the faint of heart; I have never in my life been closer to vomiting after seeing a photograph. Women in Iraq have been told just to not have children anymore due to the percentage of babies being born with horrific birth defects. The US government has knowingly permanently poisoned the cradle of civilization and that dust is on the winds of the planet, world wide. It was detected in Great Britain years ago.

You can't believe everything you see on youtube mate.

Studies in 2005 and earlier have concluded that DU ammunition has no measurable detrimental health effects.

A 1999 literature review conducted by the Rand Corporation stated: "No evidence is documented in the literature of cancer or any other negative health effect related to the radiation received from exposure to depleted or natural uranium, whether inhaled or ingested, even at very high doses,"[140] and a RAND report authored by the U.S. Defense department undersecretary charged with evaluating DU hazards considered the debate to be more political than scientific.[141]

A 2001 oncology study concluded that "the present scientific consensus is that DU exposure to humans, in locations where DU ammunition was deployed, is very unlikely to give rise to cancer induction".[142] Former NATO Secretary General Lord Robertson stated in 2001 that "the existing medical consensus is clear. The hazard from depleted uranium is both very limited, and limited to very specific circumstances".[143]

A 2002 study from the Australian defense ministry concluded that "there has been no established increase in mortality or morbidity in workers exposed to uranium in uranium processing industries... studies of Gulf War veterans show that, in those who have retained fragments of depleted uranium following combat related injury, it has been possible to detect elevated urinary uranium levels, but no kidney toxicity or other adverse health effects related to depleted uranium after a decade of follow-up."[144] Pier Roberto Danesi, then-director of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Seibersdorf +Laboratory, stated in 2002 that "There is a consensus now that DU does not represent a health threat".[145]

The IAEA reported in 2003 that, "based on credible scientific evidence, there is no proven link between DU exposure and increases in human cancers or other significant health or environmental impacts," although "Like other heavy metals, DU is potentially poisonous. In sufficient amounts, if DU is ingested or inhaled it can be harmful because of its chemical toxicity. High concentration could cause kidney damage." The IAEA concluded that while depleted uranium is a potential carcinogen, there is no evidence that it has been carcinogenic in humans.[146]

A 2005 study by Sandia National Laboratories' Al Marshall used mathematical models to analyze potential health effects associated with accidental exposure to depleted uranium during the 1991 Gulf War. Marshall's study concluded that the reports of cancer risks from DU exposure are not supported by his analysis nor by veteran medical statistics. Marshall also examined possible genetic effects due to radiation from depleted uranium.[147] Chemical effects, including potential reproductive issues, associated with depleted uranium exposure were discussed in some detail in a subsequent journal paper.[148]

I suggest you google and learn what depleted uranium actually is. Natural Uranium is less harmful than sleeping next to another human being. Yep, we ourselves give off plenty of radiation, as do bananas(potassium is radioactive).

Depleted Uranium, is the material left over when you enrich natural uranium into nuclear fuel. What this means is the DEPLETED Uranium is inactive, stable and a useable by product. They actually Use Depleted Uranium as Radiation shielding in hospitals, and other sensitive areas requiring protection from various kinds of radiation. Depleted Uranium is less dangerous than lead, and even if ingested would be no more harmful than any other heavy metals. In various studies, depleted uranium has been shown to have no adverse health effects what so ever.

Depleted uranium is not what you think it is. It didn't come out of a reactor, it came out of the ground as natural uranium. It went into a centrifuge and was separated from the radioactive component found in natural uranium.

reply to post by Hijinx


Until the 1980s, there was almost 2000 pounds of it in some aircraft too as ballast. I believe the 747 carried around 1500 pounds or so in various portions of the aircraft.

reply to post by Hijinx

You can't believe everything you see on youtube mate.

No truer words have been spoken.....

It is also something that falls on deaf ears around here..

reply to post by Zaphod58


I did read that!!! I was trying to spit this out quickly and used the sensitivity of medical shielding as my example, but it's used for all sorts of things. It's not Always called Depleted Uranium though, so many people may be unaware of the materials use as there is a huge amount of assumption when the word Uranium comes up.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Leonidas
reply to post by colbyforce

 

Where are you? I am down in Hana Bay. The water here was tested in July the solstice from the police station around the corner in front of the hotel and is totally, complete 100% fine. There is a company in Honolulu that does it.

I'm in Lahaina town.... S Front

Hmmmmm..... not sure how much I would trust the source.... hard to say.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


Because as long as there are indigenous people still living here, they are continuing to fight the US military for access to their own sacred lands. By getting rid of the natives, the government will have no more obstacles to seizing land in Hawaii for more bases and training grounds.

The focus of US attention is quietly shifting from the Middle East to Asia, and Hawaii is now and has always been the lynch pin in that game. Whoever controls Hawaii controls the Pacific.

reply to post by ZeroReady


Hawaii has been a US state for so long I think it's safe to say that the US will continue to control Hawaii. But there is no need for more firing ranges, as there is already Makua Valley, Schofield Barracks, and Pohakuloa. The bigger training need is going to be the anti-ship mission, which requires ocean ranges. That means Barking Sands may see an expansion, as well as the mothball fleet in Pearl, over by LCC.

If you pay attention to military movements, so far the "shift" is a pathetic joke. There is no increase in spending for infrastructure in the Pacific, no plans for moving ships that way, the increases in technology required (UCLASS) requirements have been gutted, etc. It's not going to be much of a shift.