Goddess Worship And The Babel Religions

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

So how do you know Satan isn't the author of the bible? How do you know the great deceiver and god of this world hasn't deceived you into believing he isn't your god?

Christianity and Yahweh are the most popular religion and god in this world, yet they have nothing to do with Satan who is the god of this world. Go figure.

Cumulatively there are more people practicing religions which are not Christianity then there are practicing it . . . Christianity is 33% of religious worship worldwide. If you want to continue with Biblical things the serpent intended to drive worship away from god and/or to itself so it would include atheism and others . . . .

That is IF you believe there is any truth to the message of the Bible.

This point is moot.

You stated earlier that the post by WS discredited the entire Bible because another civilization has extremely similar mythology. This can be interpreted in several ways if one is accepting of the presence of supernatural entities being identified as gods.

1. The Bible and its faith is entirely a deception by a being found only in its texts (you said so yourself) and is designed to deceive worshipers and lead them away from a one true God (found only in these texts) who was really a group of deities from a religion which is identified as false in the Bible.

2. Something along the lines of what is outlined in the Bible as the serpent (many of these gods and goddesses are strongly associated with serpents from all religions around the world) rebelling against God and establishing its worship among the humans who were exiled to Earth. The activities of the old gods could actually aspects of the throne of God and is a manifestation of their Biblical attempt to usurp Heaven from the one true God. The fallen angels of the Bible used to serve in Heaven and would thus have knowledge (forbidden and shared with mankind) of the workings of Heaven which would allow for an effective deception.

Let us not forget that the Bible and apocryphal texts like Enoch state that the angels were told what was going to happen.

3. Everyone is confused and arguing over semantics while missing the true message.

-FBB

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

It had everything to do with your comment. You seem to have some trouble following your own train of thought, so, let me help you out:

1) You asked to be show a book of Sumerian prophecy that does what the Bible claims to do. In response, I asked for a scientifically accurate Bible.

2) You said that I had nothing to present (meaning: no book of Sumerian myth/prophecy). I replied that books did not exist in Sumer, therefore there couldn't be a book of Sumerian prophecy, because no books existed then.

My information = 100% relevant to your comments.

What a silly response. I think you know what I meant. Forget "books". If you want to use semantics, where is one sacred text that mentions Enki and Enlil that shows what they had to say about the future of mankind and the earth? I don't even know why I'm asking, because we both know you'll come up with some unrelated sarcastic answer.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


Luckily I've been reading through this thread, else I may have missed your reply.

1) The social norms, and the mythology (where you'll find the goddess) did not necessarily reflect one another in polytheistic cultures, as each city-state had its own patron (or group of patrons), that brought their own laws and ethics. What was traditional in Eridu under Enki and Ninmah, may not have mirrored what was traditional in Ur under Nanna and Ningal.

In the case of polyandry/polygyny, the ancient world is rife with it. For example:

Enki's spouse was Ninmah (Ninhursag). Oh, and Ninshar, Nindurra, Ningikugal, Ninimma, and Uttu (although he got punished for that one). Let's also not forget about Ninhursag who was the spouse of both Enki and Enlil, and, occasionally, Marduk.

Further, moving into Anatolia, you have Teshub, the storm god, whose wife was the Sun Goddess Arinniti, or the goddess Hebat.

Is it even worth mentioning the numerous "conquests" of Zeus and Poseidon in Greek mythology? Or Ares, Artemis, and Aphrodite for that matter.

Even in Celtic myth and legend the Tuatha de are well known for having multiple human and divine spouses (often leading to numerous wars and competitions). Etain, Lugh, and Nuadhu being a handful of classic examples.

Heck, even among the Norse, the goddess Frigg is shared by Odin and Ullr. Odin, Thor, and a handful of others also have giant wives, beside their Aesir/Vanir ones.

Did their cultural ways support monogamy? Yes.
Did their mythological worship support polygamy? Certainly.

Did their cult rituals, like the prostitution of Mesopotamia, the wild orgiastic exposes of the Norse "Thing", and Greco-Roman festivals in honor of Bast (Egyptian goddess) lift such cultural mores during ritual, rite, and solemn procession? Definitely.

Now, I'm no stranger to voice my disagreement with the Neo Pagan and New Age conception of the Divine Feminine. I am, however, also no stranger to the importance of sex, lust, and love in the religious worship of ancient pagan and polytheistic peoples.



2) The eunuchs of Kybele are a Roman addition. They do not feature in the original Anatolian Rites of Spring celebrated in honor of Kybele's lost lover, Attis.

The Greek and Roman writers who recorded such practices were mocking and insulting the priests of Kybele, because worship of Kybele was foreign.

The same way they misinterpreted the practices and worship of Bast in ancient Egypt, and considered Celtic polytheism to be barbarous, primitive, and unrefined, despite it being some of the most literate, cultured, and complex mythology on Earth.

Do you really think the Celt's worshiped Mercury, Ares, and a triple-variation of Aphrodite? Because that is who they worshiped according to Ceasar's account, and that of other Romans and Greeks. According to the Greek and Roman writers the Celts were absolutely in love with Greek and Roman deities... despite the fact that the Celts numerous times raided, attacked, sacked, pillaged, and destroyed Greek culture when they encountered it, favoring instead their own native beliefs and mythologies.

Why did the Greeks and Romans add that little insulting detail of castration? To strip away the power of Attis and Kybele's priests. In Greece, the almighty penis is... well, almighty. Castrate a god? They're just like Ouranos: a has been, a reject. Castrate a priest? They lose their authority and power.

Did the priests of Kybele practice castration in Rome? Maybe.
Did the priests of Kybele practice castration in Anatolia? Nope.



3) As for Inanna, she is fickle. That's because she's young, brazen, and possibly a foreign power who was overlooked by Enki and Enlil when they were establishing the world and setting the offices of all the gods.

If you gather the Great Gods together, and then begin giving them their jobs and duties, but leave one out, that one is just as likely to act the way Inanna did.

Further, her actions were all reactionary:

Not given a kingdom? Go and try and establish one.
Not given any of the me? Go and try to collect some.
Not given a city-state to live in? Go and have one built.
Not paired with a divine partner? Find one among human beings.

Were some of her actions harsh? Definitely.
Were some of them wrong to do? Most certainly.
Does that make her any less worthy? Not in the slightest.

She was an opportunistic goddess in a world that paid her no attention until she made a name for herself. She did what any self-respecting individual --- divine or otherwise --- would do were they dealt the same hand as her.


~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Deetermined


If the only important thing to you about belief is whether or not it tells you the future, then you've seriously missed the point of spirituality, religion, belief, and faith. However, here, have some of what you're looking for:

One day there will be no snake, no scorpion,
There will be no hyena, nor lion,
There will be neither wild dog, nor wolf,
And there will be neither fear nor trembling,
For man will then have no enemy.

On that day the lands of Shubur and Hamazi,
As well as twin-tongued Sumer, great mound of lord-ship,
Together with Akkad, the mound that has all befitting,
And even the land Martu, resting in the green pastures,
Yes, the whole world of well-ruled people,
Will be able to speak to Enlil in one language.

For on that day, for the debates between Lords and Princes and Kings,
Shall Enki, lord of abundance, lord of steadfast decisions,
Lord of wisdom and knowledge in the land,
Expert of the gods,
Chosen for wisdom, lord of Eridu,
Change the tongue in their mouth, as many as he once placed there,
And speech of mankind shall truly be one.

Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta

Prophecy 1: Man will then have no enemy. We have conquered the poison of the scorpion and snake, the wild attacks of the dog and the hyena, the predatory nature of the lion, and the wolf. Man is the top of the food chain now, with no enemies.

Prophecy 2: Unified language. All of Mesopotamia (Shubur, Hamazi, Sumer, Akkad, Martu, etc) does now speak Arabic unilaterally. Second, before Arabic, the entire Mesopotamia empire was united under cuneiform as a written language, with dialects and slight variations in spoken form. So, twice this prophecy came true.

Prophecy 3: Everybody addressing their prayer and worship to one deity (Enlil). Outside of the obvious evolution from Enlil to Yhvh, you also have Allah, whom all the Muslims of modern day Mesopotamia (Iraq) worship and pray to together (despite segmented difference between Sunni, Shiite, etc).

So, there you go. A Sumerian prophecy that has actually come to pass. Unlike all those vague and mysterious Biblical prophecies that never do.


~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by undo

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?

Now, let’s look at how Jesus uses this passage. Jesus had just claimed to be the Son of God (John 10:25-30). The unbelieving Jews respond by charging Jesus with blasphemy, since He claimed to be God (verse 33). Jesus then quotes Psalm 82:6, reminding the Jews that the Law refers to mere men—albeit men of authority and prestige—as “gods.” Jesus’ point is this: you charge me with blasphemy based on my use of the title “Son of God”; yet your own Scriptures apply the same term to magistrates in general. If those who hold a divinely appointed office can be considered “gods,” how much more can the One whom God has chosen and sent (verses 34-36)?

Read more: www.gotquestions.org...

The whole point of Psalm 82 is that earthly judges must act with impartiality and true justice, because even judges must stand someday before the Judge. Verses 6 and 7 warn human magistrates that they, too, must be judged: “I said, `You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.” This passage is saying that God has appointed men to positions of authority in which they are considered as gods among the people. They are to remember that, even though they are representing God in this world, they are mortal and must eventually give an account to God for how they used that authority.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I find it interesting that the highest reference listed in that prophecy for Enlil is "Expert of the gods".

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

So, there you go. A Sumerian prophecy that has actually come to pass. Unlike all those vague and mysterious Biblical prophecies that never do.

You're obviously not familiar with the Bible or Daniel.

"Book of Daniel Prophecy: End of Days Bible Study of the Prophet Daniel"

www.godandscience.org...

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

So, there you go. A Sumerian prophecy that has actually come to pass. Unlike all those vague and mysterious Biblical prophecies that never do.

i don't think it's that cut and dry, personally. the prophecies are mostly based on astrological signs and planets, for marking seasons and time frame. clearly it's about precession in several places, and you can't argue against precession.

reply to post by Deetermined


is this before or after salvation

1[A Psalm of Asaph.] God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

---

if before salvation, then the final result doesn't apply to the saved.
if after salvation, what is the point of salvation? how can i be and not be a child of the most high at the same time. methinks there's something missing in your deliberations.

reply to post by undo


I don't understand what you're asking. Maybe it would help if I understood the reason why you posted the verses from John 10 in the first place.

reply to post by Deetermined

I find it interesting that the highest reference listed in that prophecy for Enlil is "Expert of the gods".

Actually, the epithet "Expert of the gods" applies to Enki, not Enlil.

You sure are deetermined to dodge the prophecy I presented you with though.

You know, by commenting that Enki isn't vain enough to declare himself something more egotistical than just someone who is wise, knows the land and its inhabitants, and sticks to his decisions.

Maybe you need a god who has to run around proclaiming himself creator of the universe every 15 words. Doesn't mean the rest of us do. If your god is so insecure that he needs constant attention and praise for his minimalist deeds, it says more about you, and your god, than it does about other gods.

You're obviously not familiar with the Bible or Daniel.

All Biblical prophecy fails. All of it. Not one single prophecy of the Bible is true.

Especially not Daniel.


~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by undo


Snake, scorpion, lion, wolf, hyena, and dog were not constellations.

In fact, "astrology" in Sumer consisted of little more than the Moon, Mercury, Venus, and the Sun's movements across the sky. They did not have a stellar cult of heroes, like we find in Greece. The quoted piece has nothing to do with astrological signs, planetary movements, or seasons.

It is very cut and dry.

One day man will not have to fear the snake, the scorpion, the wolf, the dog, the hyena or the lion because man will have no predatory enemies.

One day all people of the lands of Mesopotamia will be able to communicate with Enlil (the Lord of Heaven) in the same tongue, because all of their languages will be unified.

Anti-venom, fire, houses, and modern weaponry have defeated the snake, scorpion, wolf, dog, hyena, and lion.

All the lands of Mesopotamia speak to Allah (the Lord of Heaven) in a unified language: Arabic.

Sumerian prophecy.


~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Maybe you need a god who has to run around proclaiming himself creator of the universe every 15 words. Doesn't mean the rest of us do. If your god is so insecure that he needs constant attention and praise for his minimalist deeds, it says more about you, and your god, than it does about other gods.

The reason God needs to proclaim himself as creator of EVERYTHING (including those fallen angels proclaiming themselves to be gods), isn't because he's insecure. It's because he doesn't want the rest of you falling for the lies of these other gods. He doesn't need anyone's praise or blessing, however, we might find some day that we all need his.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


no i mean bible prophecy vs. sumerian prophecy. bible prophecy is based, among other things, on precession

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


the Lord of Heaven is Anu.
Enlil is the Lord of the Air and owner of planet Earth. Lord of the Command.
Enki is the Lord of earth, clay and water. Lord of wisdom and creation. Savior of humans, multiple times.

this is what i think happened:

the original adam race were created by sentient, bipedal, intelligent, reptilians, who were the overseers of the non-sentient reptile species on the planet. they were a race the biblical text refers to as seraphim.

prior to them were the amphibians, who also had sentient, bipedal, intelligent overseers of the non-sentient amphibian species on the planet, who were known in biblical text as the cherubim.

in ufology lore, the seraphim are the reptilians and the cherubim are the greys.
some of them are not good.
some of them are good.

enki was actually older than enlil, so my theory is that enki was from the amphibian overseers.
enlil was actually younger than enki, so my theory is that enlil was from the reptilian overseers.

both enki and enlil, are sons of anu. i have no clue what anu is.

anyway. the adam race were sentient reptiles created by enki, per enlil's request, as slave workers for the reptilians. these were clones, however. they didn't procreate or lay eggs. later, enki modified some of them to be part mammalian as a result of giving them procreation. the end result was homo sapians.

now mind you, this is just a theory. i have very scant evidence for this, but what evidence i do have, is interesting

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Wandering Scribe

 

the Lord of Heaven is Anu.
Enlil is the Lord of the Air and owner of planet Earth. Lord of the Command.
Enki is the Lord of earth, clay and water. Lord of wisdom and creation. Savior of humans, multiple times.

How is one "owner" of the earth, while the other is "Lord of the earth"?

That's another thing that people should consider about the Sumerian gods. They all switched roles and their identities got turned around by the time they made it to Babylon and you never know who was really who.

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Wandering Scribe

 

the Lord of Heaven is Anu.
Enlil is the Lord of the Air and owner of planet Earth. Lord of the Command.
Enki is the Lord of earth, clay and water. Lord of wisdom and creation. Savior of humans, multiple times.

How is one "owner" of the earth, while the other is "Lord of the earth"?

That's another thing that people should consider about the Sumerian gods. They all switched roles and their identities got turned around by the time they made it to Babylon and you never know who was really who.

enki was lord of the clay, the soil, the water. he was a creator of life forms. think of him like a geneticist.
enlil was more like a military guy.

i mentioned this before in another thread, but i think it was set up like a court room:

enlil was the prosecuting attorney (the accuser) and enki was the defense attorney (the savior) and anu was the judge (the father of them both)

reply to post by undo

enlil was the prosecuting attorney (the accuser) and enki was the defense attorney (the savior) and anu was the judge (the father of them both)

I'm trying to picture these roles as they relate to the Sumerian "prophecy" that WanderingScribe posted.

Help me to understand from his/her post why it says that Enki will be the one to change everyone's language so that everyone will be able to speak to Enlil. Does any of that even make sense?

By the way, thanks for pointing out that Anu was the father of both Enki and Enlil, who mysteriously disappeared from being involved in most of the events laid out in mythology.