Goddess Worship And The Babel Religions

reply to post by Deetermined

hanks for proving my point again by responding with information that had absolutely nothing to do with my comment.

It had everything to do with your comment. You seem to have some trouble following your own train of thought, so, let me help you out:

1) You asked to be show a book of Sumerian prophecy that does what the Bible claims to do. In response, I asked for a scientifically accurate Bible.

2) You said that I had nothing to present (meaning: no book of Sumerian myth/prophecy). I replied that books did not exist in Sumer, therefore there couldn't be a book of Sumerian prophecy, because no books existed then.

My information = 100% relevant to your comments.

Yes, the Bible is filled with prophecy.

So are the works of Nostradamus, the I-Ching, and the Qur'an. You must be quite busy every day, reading all of those prophetic volumes! How on Earth you find time to come on ATS is way beyond me!

I'd tell you to do some research on Daniel's vision about the future empires that would fall and that unfolded over the period of the next 400 years following it, but you won't, so it's pointless, and that's only ONE of the prophecies that was fulfilled.

I'd tell you to do some research here on the fraudulent history of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, the Bible, Jesus, the Apostles, and God Himself... but, we both know you're as closed-minded now as you are, were, or will ever be.

reply to post by Deetermined

The communal sexual experiences are the problem. I think the Bible proves that.

There's nothing wrong with polyamorous relationships, so long as everyone is of the age to consent, and does so. Any disagreement you have is personal, based on your own emotional reaction, and not grounded in any type of biological, or scientific rationale.

Maybe because they have absolutely no control over LIFE and they know it?

Oh, look; you're speaking about yourself, as if your own personal fears represent those of everybody else. I think you'll find, since goddess-worship includes figures like the three Norns, the three Fates, and goddesses like Maat and Nanshe, that goddess-worshipers tend to believe they have an even more direct line to fate and destiny and control over their lives.

You must have missed one of my previous links...

The Galoi were a Roman explanation of the rights of Kybele. In her native Anatolian setting they did not castrate themselves. Do you know why the Roman accounts include such a foolish display? Because, as I've said before, the Romans saw all non-native things (peoples, practices, religions) as barbaric, primitive, and stupid because they weren't Roman.


~ Wandering Scribe

Raw sewage?

Yeah, I'll take "goddess worship" any day over the system of slave gods and worshipers propped up by the notion that all bad things come into the world through women.

Current events and history show us that it is actually the other way around.

Your mythology doesn't matter.

...if your girls s in the room
ask her
and dance carefully with her
in a slow rocking play



..and make sure, you are HERS

reply to post by Lone12


This ^^^ is a product of the patriarchy!

reply to post by WashMoreFeet


This "God" you are talking about , the Creator has long since lost control over the physical manifestations, and spiritual, and ultimately of itself.

This was its ultimate goal, to finally surprise itself at the ability to lose everything it could dream up.

It even separated itself with such effort, that it may never be able to return to itself , which was really the whole point of its "CREATION".

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by WashMoreFeet

 

Originally posted by WashMoreFeet
reply to post by undo

 

God exists outside of creation.

I disagree. There is nothing in the Bible to support this claim. God, if he exists, he exists within the existence of creation. At the very least, God exists within a creation sphere created by another GOD, the father of God.

edit on 31-8-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

If you were to make a vase, you would exist outside and around the vase. You would not be the vase, but the vase wouldn't exist if you didn't exist.

Basic physics tells us that all matter is made up of sound and light. Vibrations and frequencies, etc.

We are told in the beginning that God spoke.
He spoke all things into existence.
I cannot imagine the voice of God Almighty, but I would assume it had sound.

We are then told,
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. "

We are told time and time again that among many other ways to refer to Jesus, one of them is as the "Light of the World."

Once God spoke a new dimension into reality (creation itself), He then projected Himself into it in the form of sound and light to create the things and structures and systems within it. This Creator essence was Jesus.

God exists outside AND inside of creation. He is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, He is fully omniscient and fully omnipotent.
He is everywhere, but He is not limited to also being "everything". God is not a thing, He is a person. He has a personality. He desires a personal relationship with those beings within His creation that were to be a reflection of His anthropomorphic self--- us.

How can Jesus say that no one has seen the Father at any time other than He?
Because He is the Father.

Then how can Jesus say He has been "given" authority from God?
Because God, the ineffable, incomprehensible source of all that is, does NOT reside Himself within creation. Thus, Jesus is simply referring to Himself as He is outside of creation, being one-in-the-same and in total correspondence and agreement with Who He is and what He does on the inside of creation. He already knows this, but the men He was communicating with did not, they challenged Him as to Who He was and where His authority came from.

He is all around us, but creation itself could not possibly even BEGIN to contain God in the totality of His raw essence and state of existence! Just as if you tried to jump inside that vase you made, it would burst into pieces before it could ever contain you as you are.

God does not have a father, He IS the Father. Jesus said, "I and the Father are One." What He is trying to tell us is that although we perceive Jesus as Jesus, He and God Himself are One-in-the-same, One simply being a comprehensible projection of the Other.

For gross lack of a better analogy, let's say your kid missed school one day. So you wrote a note to excuse their absence and sent it to school with them. The note has the same authority over the situation as your full-bodily presence would. You communicate both your presence and your authority in that written note.

reply to post by WashMoreFeet


A vase is not alive, so your analogy doesn't really prove anything.

Is a mountain part of the Earth? Because the Earth's tectonic plates smashing into each other made that mountain, but with your logic, once the Earth makes that mountain, they are no longer a part of one another and are separate.

Originally posted by undo
number 1: i am a christian.
number 2: i have the holy spirit.
number 3: i'm still not convinced the old and new testaments are the best of friends. to me, the old testament reads mostly like an enlil book and the new, mostly like an enki book.
number 4: notice the hole in the sky in ezekiel 1? ever read michael heiser's description of ezekiel 1? you should.

You may want to rethink your number 1.

Christian means Christ-like, and Christ fully substantiated and gave authority to the Old Testament. Here are but a few examples from His own mouth:

"You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life."

"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

"For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ "

And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?"

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),"

"Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”

"But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? "

And He charged him to tell no one, “But go and show yourself to the priest, and make an offering for your cleansing, as a testimony to them, just as Moses commanded.”

"For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. "

And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.”

He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, ... "

"For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.”

Then He answered and told them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and restores all things. And how is it written concerning the Son of Man, that He must suffer many things and be treated with contempt? "

"The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! "

The Jews were astonished at Jesus' knowledge of scripture:

And the Jews marveled, saying, “How does this Man know letters, having never studied?”

Jesus knew because He was the inspiration unto the men who wrote it.

And if you're number 1. is off, then it is not the Holy Spirit you have, but something other than. The Holy Spirit testifies unto Itself, thus it would never speak blasphemy against the Old Testament.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by WashMoreFeet

 

A vase is not alive, so your analogy doesn't really prove anything.

Is a mountain part of the Earth? Because the Earth's tectonic plates smashing into each other made that mountain, but with your logic, once the Earth makes that mountain, they are no longer a part of one another and are separate.

edit on 31-8-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

I tried sooooo hard not to look. But I did. And now that I've read this, I feel the urge to go bang my head against a wall somewhere.

reply to post by WashMoreFeet


First of all, the Bible isn't proof of anything. When John wrote about the "word" he was parroting Pythagoras, not Jesus. www.essene.com...

Secondly, a vase is made from earth, as are we. "God" didn't create us from nothing. "God" used parts of creation, within the creation to create the creation. Nothing comes from nothing. Not even God.

I believe "GOD" to be an encompassment of everything that exists, did exist, will exist and never existed, didn't exist and won't exist.

There is nothing outside of existence, not even God, if a God exists.

reply to post by WashMoreFeet


You have yet to counter anything I've said thus far.

Likewise, I feel like banging my head against a wall every time I hear someone make the potter/pottery argument. It's entirely unoriginal and cannot be compared with living, breathing, and thinking organisms. If we were pieces of pottery, you may have a point, but we're not.

reply to post by WashMoreFeet


i didn't say the OT was not related to the NT. and i believe enki, that is jesus, is depicted in the OT as jehovah on a few occasions. i'm just not convinced that every appearance of jehovah in the old testament, was jesus or on friendly terms with jesus.

jesus was the first pharaoh and the last pharaoh. that is, jesus was the alpha and the omega.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

just a side note: babylon was a country and an empire. it was never a single city. the tower of babel was not in the city babylon. but it was in the country babylon.

I never said it was in the city now did I? If you look on google chrome, it's south of where Nebuchadnesser II's palace was. The more ancient name of the nation was Shinar but the capitol was Babylon which was also Ninevah.

Those of you touting the virtues of goddess worship as the cure all for the violations of history are sorely mistaken in what the realities of the day under its laws were.

It is difficult to get an accurate understanding of the daily experiences due to the nature of record keeping in comparison to what was available later that has expedited this hatred of masculinity I see so often from certain members here. To those clearly guilty of this, the virtues you espouse are clearly lost on you as fail to practice them.

WANDERINGSCRIBE . . . your idea of polyamorous love as indicative of goddess worship is incredibly mistaken as monogamy was was rife in the ancient world. Taking second wives or concubines was for the purpose of reproduction in the case of infertility in the wife.The laws of Babylon did not allow for a man to take more than one wife.

Women's Roles in Ancient Mesopotamia
www.academia.edu...

The gods themselves practiced monogamy by in large with the small minority engaging in polyamory.

Essentially the social status of women was similar to what it was under pagan Greece and Christian Europe and not the domineering sadomasochistic house of torture many of you try and make masculinity out to be. The priestesses did engage in sexual activities as part of their sacred religious rites and prostitution was viewed more akin to the red light districts of feudal Japan.

Herodotus cited that ALL women were expected to participate in religious prostitution AT LEAST ONCE in their life. Cuneiform records have yet to corroborate this.

The male prostitutes were eunuchs and were CASTRATED . . . so much for your claims of not mutilating the followers of goddesses. These were followers of ISHTAR a goddess.

The temples even condoned slavery . . .



All of you glorifying the feminine goddess worship are blind to the recorded histories and are lying to yourselves.

Lets not forget that while Ishtar was a goddess of fertility she was also a goddess of WAR meaning that all the atrocities of ancient warfare conducted by her followers were in HER name.

Ishtar was one of the polyamorous goddesses and she treated her lovers cruelly;

"Woe to him whom Ishtar had honoured! The fickle goddess treated her passing lovers cruelly, and the unhappy wretches usually paid dearly for the favours heaped on them. Animals, enslaved by love, lost their native vigour: they fell into traps laid by men or were domesticated by them. 'Thou has loved the lion, mighty in strength', says the hero Gilgamesh to Ishtar, 'and thou hast dug for him seven and seven pits! Thou hast loved the steed, proud in battle, and destined him for the halter, the goad and the whip.' Even for the gods Ishtar's love was fatal. In her youth the goddess had loved Tammuz, god of the harvest, and—if one is to believe Gilgamesh —this love caused the death of Tammuz.
-Guirand

This is NOT the ideal you all are making goddess worship out to be.

It would be far more accurate if you all noted that what the goddess symbolizes to you is NOT what has been the case historically.

-FBB

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


Shall we continue?

Athena another goddess of wisdom and "just" WAR (likened to the just warfare of the Biblical God).

The Greek philosopher Plato (428–347 BC) identified her with the Egyptian deity Neith, which, they say was worshiped at the city of Sais, located at the Delta of Egypt, as the founder of the city.[5] She was the war goddess and huntress deity of the Egyptians since the ancient Pre-Dynastic period, who was also identified with weaving.

Neith
en.wikipedia.org...
A goddess of war and a creator goddess . . .

Let us not forget much of the Greek pantheon was adapted from their interaction with the Egyptians. On a side note the concept of Atlantis comes from Egypt as Plato was an initiate of its mystery schools. Athena predates Zeus in the pantheon is associated with a serpent named Erechthonius or as the daughter of Cronus (Saturn). In other myths she kills her earth goddess sister to claim the name Athena for herself.

Venus is dualistic goddess embodying the positive and negative aspects of carnal passions.

she is essentially assimilative and benign, and embraces several otherwise quite disparate functions. She can give military victory, sexual success, good fortune and prosperity. In one context, she is a goddess of prostitutes; in another, she turns the hearts of men and women from sexual vice to virtue.

She is identified in Roman mythology as the mother goddess of the state of Rome through Aeneas. She was a favorite of Roman generals in her persona as Fortuna. So we have again another goddess favored by warmongering nations seeking her approval in their pursuit of atrocity.

Aphrodite was the Greek progenitor of Venus and was feared by the pantheon as a threat which would spark war among the gods over her. She was identified with the Egyptian goddess Hathor and practiced infidelity and engaged in Ishtar inspired punishment in the Psyche and Eros myth. She is often associated with war in her affairs with the god of war Ares as she is attracted to the violent force of war.

Sacred prostitution was a practice of many of her temples . . . they were called 'sacred slaves.'

Isis
en.wikipedia.org...
Isis is an example of a goddess identified with all the above except that there was no sacred prostitution and she embodied the faithful wife of her husband Osiris after engaging in necrophilia with his corpse to give birth to Horus.

She is generally one to buck the trend of the goddesses mentioned previous except for her deceit of Ra by sending a serpent to poison him so as to extract his true name in exchange for a cure.

The spread of her cults expanded greatly around the time of the birth of Christianity which is likely the source of much of the confusion over the origins of Christianity being Sumerian, Egyptian, or otherwise. She was thought of as the mother of Pharaoh which clearly identifies why the royalty of other nations and seats of Earthly power made attempts to associate themselves with her.


This view of the world is not corroborated with Biblical sources whether you believe them a corruption of the old mysteries or not. The Biblical God promises life in Heaven as opposed to earthly lives of reincarnation espoused by many of the mystery schools.

Everyone hating on things occurring on Earth in accusation of the Biblical God likely have not read the material as Jesus stated in the Bible that His kingdom is NOT of this world which would indicate that what happens here is temporary and a result of something that happened long ago and would be corrected in time.

All you goddess worshipers who clearly hate with disturbing passion the Biblical God are always complaining about earthly hardships which are NOT promised to be done away with on Earth, but in Heaven.

If you dislike the message then work on that and please stop making the foolish complaints about material woes being the work of an evil God whom you then go on to claim is just a perversion of previous gods whom also engaged in evil.

-FBB

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

I never said it was in the city now did I? If you look on google chrome, it's south of where Nebuchadnesser II's palace was. The more ancient name of the nation was Shinar but the capitol was Babylon which was also Ninevah.

shinar is sumer, which later became akkad and even later, became babylon. and as i indicated, it's just a side note, not a big problem.

the egyptians were descendants of noah. they took the same ante diluvian history with them to egypt, as the mesopotamian variety. over time, as their culture matured, the stories began to take on their own flavor and language variants.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


you're talking about worship of a goddess that isn't actually present. if you look at the lives of the women who lived in the cultures, it sucked. the difference is, people who talk about goddess worship now, are not so much talking about worshipping female deities that aren't present, like some kind of idealized female, as they are talking about viewing women as goddesses, in the same right as men as gods.

what we have here is a problem of extremes. people are interpreting thousands of years of information, selecting one area to focus on, and then using that as if it were applicable to everything else, literally. it isn't. there is all sorts of additional information that doesn't get brought into the conversation, sorta like trying to debate evolution with a darwinist.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

you're talking about worship of a goddess that isn't actually present. if you look at the lives of the women who lived in the cultures, it sucked. the difference is, people who talk about goddess worship now, are not so much talking about worshipping female deities that aren't present, like some kind of idealized female, as they are talking about viewing women as goddesses, in the same right as men as gods.

what we have here is a problem of extremes. people are interpreting thousands of years of information, selecting one area to focus on, and then using that as if it were applicable to everything else, literally. it isn't. there is all sorts of additional information that doesn't get brought into the conversation, sorta like trying to debate evolution with a darwinist.

edit on 1-9-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

You are talking about a modern interpretation of a concept called the "divine feminine" which is not what existed by study of the ancient cultures.

Just go back and read the posts in this thread of masculine deities being misogynistic warmongers while the feminine is only identified with love and compassion and even referenced to the goddesses which I have alluded to myself.

The difference is many of these "feminine" traits are the result of corrupt modern women's liberation propaganda as the "divine feminine" was quite often associated with war, death, and deceit.

My point is that they are projecting their ideals of human behavior onto a female principle while ignoring the actual associations of the goddesses.

There are good and evil men and women historically and in mythology, it pointless to argue about a divine feminine being corrupted by men when history shows that they, men and women, engage equally in abhorrent behavior.

Also you can look at the lives of the average male of ancient times and see that life was not so great.

YOU may view modern "divine feminine" proponents as viewing women as goddesses but that is not what is evidenced in this thread or much of the literature. Most of the literature identifies the positive aspects of masculine and feminine traits and advises one to seek a balance between the two.

Far greater focus is placed on the feminine and often interpreted as a goddess. I would suggest you take the time to reread this thread and others like it to verify for yourself the point of view of the proponents of the "goddess."

-FBB