Conversation with the Body of Christ

reply to post by usertwelve

Do you deny those that live by this when Jesus specifically states that by this alone we are his disciples?

It depends on how on defines 'love'.

Yehushua's Love too was misunderstood by sinful men and they nailed him to a stake for it.

Most HATE the Truth Delivered for their own eternal Good. In their minds it restricts their sense of 'freedoms' in opting for the wider path, wherein one refuses to fully acknowledge they are to be Held Accountable for deeds and the impurity of their hearts desire. They bear not with a healthy fear and a love for their Creator to strive moreso in doing the Will better understood through Seeking the Knowledge of it with Instruction. I am my brother's keeper in attempt to lead away from dangerous error. This here is my imperfect love demonstrated, still under my corrupted condition as we all are still.

"I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:7

Why was He Compelled to Reveal this do you think for the end times? Did you notice that the OP has Voided such testimony by his stances?

Most of you here sadly demonstrate the faith and trust that is dying and long has been as we approach the closing of this age. All will be FULFILLED as Written and Warned in all the wretched, sin loving, unbelieving hearts and minds of mankind that could not Stand in due bearing with the Truth and furthermore will hate and persecute those that are Truly trusting and faithful Called as servants to preach openly the Truth of the Gospel of Salvation for these end times.

reply to post by PrimeLight

It depends on how on defines 'love'. Yehushua's love too was misunderstood by sinful men and they nailed him to a stake for it.

Love is universal.

Mathew 5:46
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Even those in conflict with God understand this.

reply to post by PrimeLight

"I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

Why was He Compelled to Reveal this do you think for the end times?

It was the end of that age, when Jerusalem fell to the Romans and the temple was destroyed.
The "coming of the son of man" was to happen in the lifetime of some of those he was speaking to.
It was the fulfillment of Jesus' version of an interpretation of the book of Daniel, which was his coming "into his power" where the enemy of the Christians was destroyed, which was the temple cult of Jerusalem.

reply to post by PrimeLight

False judgement and assumptions once again, both ignoring and taking my words out of context for means of personal attack. Hence this is why I wanted to distance myself from you quite early in the discourse.

You espouse a certain kind of rhetoric that I have run into repeatedly on the religion forums, and could recognize immediately. You are just one of the sadly duped who got into a so-called messianic Judaism cult, so I am not attacking you as a person, just that brand of religion which seems to have taken a normalized form within those groups which tells me that there is a monolithic entity behind it to promote it for their own reason, ones I do not see as being in the least bit positive as for its affects on the welfare of the human species of this planet.

. . . your wordings that speak in 'riddles' to me . . .

It seems like it (riddles) because you read the Bible but all the definitions for the words in it are ones that someone told you in order to support the theories they are pushing. Someone can quote scriptures to you all day long to no effect, since you do not understand the individual words.

reply to post by jmdewey60

It was the end of that age, when Jerusalem fell to the Romans and the temple was destroyed. The "coming of the son of man" was to happen in the lifetime of some of those he was speaking to. It was the fulfillment of Jesus' version of an interpretation of the book of Daniel, which was his coming "into his power" where the enemy of the Christians was destroyed, which was the temple cult of Jerusalem.

I asked you to supply scripture to support your basis of my errors in all further argument against me--and in this latest case delivered, in added proclamations of how 'duped' I am in my path of Leading including my position on the Law (supported by Yehushua's Inspired words). Why did you refuse a reasonable request? Do you not hold dear to the Word to apply it in accordance?

Read the passage in full below where I applied that scripture and explain to me (with support of scripture) why Yehushua would have used the mitzvot as example of obedience below if he were so against it. I acknowledge that He spoke against the corrupted traditions of men being applied to the Law, however why did He not not denounce the Commands here? After all he came to destroy the 'old' Law by your position, did He not?

7 Now won't God grant justice to his chosen people who cry out to him day and night? Is he delaying long over them? 8 I tell you that he will judge in their favor, and quickly! But when the Son of Man comes, will he find this trust on the earth at all?" 9 Also, to some who were relying on their own righteousness and looking down on everyone else, he told this parable: 10 "Two men went up to the Temple to pray, one a Parush and the other a tax-collector. 11 The Parush stood and prayed to himself, `O God! I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity -- greedy, dishonest, immoral, or like this tax-collector! 12 I fast twice a week, I pay tithes on my entire income, . . . ' 13 But the tax-collector, standing far off, would not even raise his eyes toward heaven, but beat his breast and said, `God! Have mercy on me, sinner that I am!' 14 I tell you, this man went down to his home right with God rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but everyone who humbles himself will be exalted." 15 People brought him babies to touch; but when the talmidim saw the people doing this, they rebuked them. 16 However, Yeshua called the children to him and said, "Let the children come to me, and stop hindering them, because the Kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17 Yes! I tell you that whoever does not receive the Kingdom of God like a little child will not enter it at all!" 18 One of the leaders asked him, "Good rabbi, what should I do to obtain eternal life?" 19 Yeshua said to him, "Why are you calling me good? No one is good but God! 20 You know the mitzvot -- `Don't commit adultery, don't murder, don't steal, don't give false testimony, honor your father and mother, . . .'" 21 He replied, "I have kept all these since I was a boy." 22 On hearing this Yeshua said to him, "There is one thing you still lack. Sell whatever you have, distribute the proceeds to the poor, and you will have riches in heaven. Then come, follow me!"

Please provide scripture in support as requested to lend credence to your adopted words for your opinions alone serve me nor yourself not.

reply to post by TheBrother

The whole message I am trying to get people to see about the Gospel that it's all about you, not a story in the book. Genesis is about you, Revelations is about you and when you understand this it's VALUE to you because it's applicable and an example to you.

and you could have just said that in the first place..

right .. ?

and then expound the scriptures upon THAT.. and leave YOU and you're self proclaimed title out of it

reply to post by jmdewey60

It seems like it because you read the Bible but all the definitions for the words in it are ones that someone told you in order to support the theories they are pushing. Someone can quote scriptures to you all day long to no effect, since you do not understand the individual words.

So is this just 'theory' wording too being 'pushed' that 'someone' has told me?

"13 "Go in through the narrow gate; for the gate that leads to destruction is wide and the road broad, and many travel it; 14 but it is a narrow gate and a HARD ROAD that leads to LIFE, and only a FEW find it. 15 "Beware of the false prophets! They come to you wearing sheep's clothing, but underneath they are hungry wolves! 16 You will recognize them by their fruit. Can people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every healthy tree produces good fruit, but a poor tree produces bad fruit. 18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, or a poor tree good fruit. 19 Any tree that does not produce good fruit is cut down and thrown in the fire! 20 So you will recognize them by their fruit. 21 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, only those WHO DO WHAT MY FATHER IN HEAVEN WANTS (OBEDIENCE). 22 On that Day, many (i.e FAITHFUL) will say to me, `Lord, Lord! Didn't we prophesy in your name? Didn't we expel demons in your name? Didn't we perform many miracles in your name?' 23 Then I will tell them to their faces, `I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of LAWLESSNESS!'"

Salvation is by faith alone.

So you think. Dangerously.

reply to post by PrimeLight

. . . why did He not not denounce the Commands here?

"Do not steal, do not kill" are you serious?
You are really confused to think that legitimises the entire five books of the Torah as a binding law.

reply to post by PrimeLight

So is this just 'theory' wording too being 'pushed' that 'someone' has told me?

I don't belong to a pseudo-Jewish cult that tells what to think. When I go to church it is to tell the congregation what I think based on my study of the Bible.
I do read books and I have a lot of them but they are academic works that do not support an agenda.

So you think. Dangerously.

Which is your comment on the statement, "Salvation is by faith alone".
"Salvation" is a term used by Paul to describe the condition of joining the Body of Christ.
Remaining in that body is dependent on living by faith, where "Faith" is another term used by Paul to describe a way of life that is first opened by hearing and believing the gospel.

reply to post by jmdewey60

You are really confused to think that legitimises the entire five books of the Torah as a binding law.

Why do you continually refuse to back up your statements applying the Word against itself as requested?

Where in the WORD are your comments to be seen as legitimate statements?

What do you offer that counters this?

Matthew 5:17-18 (CJB)
17 "Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete. 18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah -- not until everything that must happen has happened.

I am interested to see what scripture you could offer to support your claims. Show me some more of that 'intellect' you enjoy applying, just do so in context without diverting and ignoring on pertinent questions and matters (and without the insult preferably).

reply to post by PrimeLight
All you are doing is quoting a passage and asking me to "counter" it.
Like I said earlier, you are accepting fake definitions for the words in the verses.
All I can counter is the interpretation that you have been fed.
Are you a fully observant Jew?
Or are you a gentile who observes all the Jewish laws anyway despite not being a Jew?
All I can say is that you are wasting your time and energy on a useless endeavor and you might as well be a Muslim and get the exact same results, where they consider following laws as the road to purity, or whatever.
So you could be a Catholic or a Jew or a muslim because they all will offer you a way of discipline if that is what you think you need to satisfy your desire to be in possession of a "holiness" attained by your own effort.
True belief in Jesus is the way of the spirit that your self-imposed physical deprivations will not bring.
I think that you are deliberately derailing this thread since there are two other threads that I am currently discussing these same issues on, where you could be posting these questions.

Dear brothers and sisters,

I am going to have to respectful withdraw from this forum from here on out. The rules I had set in hope to keep this thread from turning into just another religious debate have not been respected, and I see where this is going now. Regardless of what might have been said against me, I love you all. I sincerely from my heart have big respect for each and everyone of you because you have dedicated a big part of your lives to learning about God. Many don't even do that. I hope it was some food for thought for the soul.

May God bless each and everyone of you spiritually and naturally in life, Amen.

Originally posted by TheBrother
Dear brothers and sisters,

I am going to have to respectful withdraw from this forum from here on out. The rules I had set in hope to keep this thread from turning into just another religious debate have not been respected, and I see where this is going now. Regardless of what might have been said against me, I love you all. I sincerely from my heart have big respect for each and everyone of you because you have dedicated a big part of your lives to learning about God. Many don't even do that. I hope it was some food for thought for the soul.

May God bless each and everyone of you spiritually and naturally in life, Amen.

edit on 29-8-2013 by TheBrother because: (no reason given)

The writing was on the wall from the start...tough crowd here.You did escape without being accused of being Satan....or at least... directly...but it was only a matter of time.These threads are read by MANY people that will never respond all more varied than the responders.The fact is The Truth is all that matters.The name calling the damning to hell will continue.The vain prayers in Jesus name.The deaf and blind will not see or hear yet... the one at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure, is God.

I had made the decision to leave this thread but I see God wasn't done yet as part of my purpose for me comming here to ATS...

I had asked people here earlier to pray to their God for guidance about the things I've said here and that not be surprised if they had a reply through a dream. Before we even ask God already knows. Allow me to SHOW you how amazing this God really is. This dream was submitted by 2WitnessesArrived the exact same day this thread was created.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I had said this earlier in this thread.

Originally posted by TheBrother
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Eternal Life or Salvation is not automatically given, it is earned. It is done by demonstration of living the 2 grand commandments that Jesus brought. Jesus answerd this in Luke 10 v 25-27. "This Do," you must DO something to get it. The race to run with patience is salvation and LIVING this life, to get the crown of life/victory that Satan will try to take from all of us. Many actually believe because Jesus died for their sins they are automatically saved, a easy and lazy thought, like a drug.

What are the chances that the dream was from the very guy that called me a "FALSE PROPHET" was one to support my message? Coincidence I said drug and he dreamt of weed? The only one actually giving a full interpretation of the dream? The dream being a message of the most important teaching of the bible? The Lord really can prepare a table in the midst of your enemies, to serve spiritual food, food for thought. God has gone out of his way to reveal in such an amazing way to you all here because he loves you, and that I do bring the the truth and to think again about what you may been taught to believe. Give thanks to him for the gift, stop arguing over religious debates, Salvation is what's important.

All praise glory and honor to almighty God, Amen

reply to post by TheBrother

What are the chances that the dream was from the very guy that called me a "FALSE PROPHET" was one to support my message? Coincidence I said drug and he dreamt of weed?

You do realize that your "drug" statement was made on 8/28 and the other poster had their dream on 8/25? Not to mention, even if you asked for people to pray about what you had said in your original post, you didn't make that post until AFTER the other poster had posted their dream. I'm not seeing any correlation here.

If anything, the dream probably represented the fact that the poster felt like they were being surrounded and tempted by others. Notice that even though the car he/she got into initially started to head west, it turned around and started heading east shortly thereafter. Plus, the poster refused the drug in the process, therefore resisting temptation from others.

reply to post by TheBrother

. . . decision to leave this thread . . .

That's the nature of this forum, and there isn't anything you can do about it.
The thread is toast but it served the purpose, and you go on to making other threads.
I think a good example of this the greatest I am, who keeps coming up with new threads and he has been tirelessly doing this for years despite a lot of resistance.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Please read this as I feel there has been a misunderstanding applied in misinterpreting positions. I hope this forwarding establishes clearly what I was trying to articulate.
Saved by faith alone
www.cgg.org...
Who decides what sin is
www.cgg.org...

This may offend, however it is to show you why I wanted to use the method I did with you to expose heretical teaching.
"When doctrinal disputes arise, if a person cannot or will not prove beliefs using clear and unambiguous scriptures, that fact should raise a red flag. Clear scriptures are a solid-rock foundation. Ambiguous scriptures, open to private interpretation, lead to a foundation of sand. Only one of these foundations will stand when storms come."
www.bibletools.org...

We are called to test against the Word.
1 Thessalonians 5: 1-21
1 But you have no need to have anything written to you, brothers, about the times and dates when this will happen; 2 because you yourselves well know that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people are saying, "Everything is so peaceful and secure," then destruction will suddenly come upon them, the way labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and there is no way they will escape. 4 But you, brothers, are not in the dark, so that the Day should take you by surprise like a thief; 5 for you are all people who belong to the light, who belong to the day. We don't belong to the night or to darkness, 6 so let's not be asleep, like the rest are; on the contrary, let us stay alert and sober. 7 People who sleep, sleep at night; and people who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us stay sober, putting on trust and love as a breastplate and the hope of being delivered as a helmet. a 9 For God has not intended that we should experience his fury, but that we should gain deliverance through our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, 10 who died on our behalf so that whether we are alive or dead, we may live along with him. 11 Therefore, encourage each other, and build each other up - just as you are doing. 12 We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are working hard among you, those who are guiding you in the Lord and confronting you in order to help you change. 13 Treat them with the highest regard and love because of the work they are doing. Live at peace among yourselves; 14 but we urge you, brothers, to confront those who are lazy, your aim being to help them change, to encourage the timid, to assist the weak, and to be patient with everyone. 15 See that no one repays evil for evil; on the contrary, always try to do good to each other, indeed, to everyone. 16 Always be joyful. 17 Pray regularly. 18 In everything give thanks, for this is what God wants from you who are united with the Messiah Yeshua. 19 Don't quench the Spirit, 20 don't despise inspired messages. 21 But do test everything - hold onto what is good,

reply to post by TheBrother

No need at all to desert the thread, however I can only hope this experience provided a means for learning as we can all learn further still. To have imposed very unrealistic 'controls' of communication from the outset to members of a vast public forum, was not conductive to such learning and for more open based communication. Such ways are not consistent with the functions of this site and the longer you are here, it will be better understood it's 'general' ways of operation with actions you can take if others go to 'negative extremes' in manner of behaviour. Be aware it can devolve to outright nasty in these avenues, so be prepared if you further desire to use such an avenue as a platform for sharing.

Whether you desire to recognise or not, I was genuinely Led to that video message that I did not seek at all nor was it intended to be brought forth as some 'weapon of ego' to belittle. I hope you took note of the main points it highlighted that aligned very much so (no coincidence) with what I was putting forth. Such revealed within that it was sent with Purpose as an independent 'confirmation' to deliver in a furtherance of Warning, for the times are especially dangerous for snaring in false doctrine.

In respect to Truth, the 'religious argument' here is based upon what leads many souls to spiritual danger in just relying on precepts of 'faith' alone in many erroneously feeling they are 'exempt' from being Expected to obey Commandments followed by the very King the faithful are meant to be striving to emulate in example. Know I bear a love for you and all here, however if I recognise clear and dangerous heresy, I will call it what it is tested against the Word of our Father in SOLIDLY clear scripture repeated in the Bible because of it's Worth (such as that pertaining to Yehushua's return for Deliverance upon this dimension)-- I do such knowing I will likely be scorned and potentially 'villianised' for such in often causing offense in minds and hearts of those who misinterpret such intentions.

This site I would like to share with you and fellow seekers of Truth who bear a love and appreciation for our Father's Hand in our lives. I only discovered it today (no personal affiliation) and it clarifies much of what I was attempting to reach with words delivered (and realise I was likely misunderstood in such), utilising scriptural truth with interpretation that speak loudly to my soul---and I pray it also does to other genuine yearners of Truth as they explore. I have not reviewed the whole site, however I can recognise it is very Spirit Filled by the things they have determined via the Holy Spirit.
I am sure you will align with this based on parts of your message and thank you for the Truth you do share.
Faith without Works (an area of mine I need to work upon certainly)
www.cgg.org...

Blessings to you and May we all answer His Calling to Will to be Granted the Means of being Counted Worthy of Salvation.

reply to post by PrimeLight

I hope this forwarding establishes clearly what I was trying to articulate.

I don't know why you would believe that is presented by these web sites, as if they were some kind of authority. They are obviously not unbiased, and are promoting certain theories and using "proof texts" rather than trying to see what the scripture is really saying.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I accept that we do not share the same Spirit of discernment and further acknowledge it will speak to those who are ready for it's application.

We can draw the line in the sand there.