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Welfare for everyone is the only ANSWER for USA.. here is why

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posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 02:46 PM
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The only way to fix the problem is to have a global currency and to outlaw money making money.
If you don`t provide a service or produce something you shouldn`t be paid or make any money, allowing money to make money should be considered a crime against humanity.
The rich don`t work, they just use their money to make more money without providing any service or producing any product,and that makes them parasites.

Buying a commodity and then reselling it at a higher price does not provide a service to anyone and creates no new product, it`s exactly the same as people being on welfare.In both cases the people involved are being parasites on society by taking something of value from society and giving nothing of value in return.

A global currency would reduce the massive cost of living gap from one country to another and even from one part of a country to another part.The value of a world currency would be based on the GDP of all the worlds countries combined, so a drop in the GDP of one country would not affect the value of the currency.



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by HanzHenry
 


You must hang with a much different class of people than I do. I tend to gravitate towards people who are go getters. Most of the one's I know weren't born into any money, they earned it. You sure don't give people much credit.

When you are doing all this traveling, try asking around and see how many folks who are doing well are living off of their inheritance, and how many are living off of their hard work and good decisions.


Most were either living off inheritance.. most of the ones in the nicer places.. And the others were living off of military pensions..

You are being SO DISINGENOUS ...Intellectually DISHONEST..

discuss any point.. refute a single one..

YOU are not very good at strawmen arguments... address my points or leave. your self aggrandizing is lamely attempting to discredit me..

typical sheeple move



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by Tardacus
The only way to fix the problem is to have a global currency and to outlaw money making money.
If you don`t provide a service or produce something you shouldn`t be paid or make any money, allowing money to make money should be considered a crime against humanity.
The rich don`t work, they just use their money to make more money without providing any service or producing any product,and that makes them parasites.

Buying a commodity and then reselling it at a higher price does not provide a service to anyone and creates no new product, it`s exactly the same as people being on welfare.In both cases the people involved are being parasites on society by taking something of value from society and giving nothing of value in return.

A global currency would reduce the massive cost of living gap from one country to another and even from one part of a country to another part.The value of a world currency would be based on the GDP of all the worlds countries combined, so a drop in the GDP of one country would not affect the value of the currency.


Part correct..

actually the Rich use their money to have OTHERS do things they want done.. MAINLY, insulating their wealth..
MOSTLY by eliminating competition.

Their money is used to manipulate life to a minute detail... one most are blind to



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by HanzHenry

WE have NO time for pomposity, shills, agents, simpletons, trolls, or anything else of the sort.

all those POMPOUS #$@$# 's that attack my premise are those still on another phrase in the literature..





pomposity [pɒmˈpɒsɪtɪ]
n pl -ties
1. vain or ostentatious display of dignity or importance
2. the quality of being pompous
3. ostentatiously lofty style, language, etc.
4. a pompous action, remark, etc.


Hmmm...you are being condescending and rude while yelling at all of us for being too idiotic to understand your rant...and then hysterically call us pompous?

Thank you! I really needed a good laugh today. This has to be about the most hilarious thing I've read all day!


Good luck!



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by boohoo

Originally posted by HanzHenry

WAGE COMPETITION!!

that is it in a nutshell.... we are TOAST!! in America

WELFARE is the ONLY SOLUTION!!

3 guys compete for one job = pay so low none can live = desperation = ever undercutting to get fed..

1 guy on welfare, 2 guys competing = more benefit for ALL..

imagine if 2 guys on welfare, living OK...that 1 guy = $$$$

supply and DEMAND!!

once you fully let my OP stew... overnight... come back tomorrow


Actually this is something everyone should already realize. Up to the 1940's a person could get just about any job with an 8th grade education, but today you need a BA or Masters for entry level.

Why?

Because the government figured out a long time ago that populations would certainly increase over time, but the availability of jobs would not expand to meet the population growth. There is a reason they don't want people dropping out of high school, then attending junior college, then a 4 year university and finally a Masters degree or PhD because it DECREASES the amount of people looking for full-time employment at the SAME TIME, chasing after jobs in a market that CANNOT provide employment for everyone willing to work.

Look at it this way, when people could get a job with an 8th grade education they went out and did it (opportunity cost). Then jobs got scarcer and the minimum became a high school diploma, adding 4 more years of people NOT Looking for jobs within their cohort. Then jobs got even scarcer and the minimum became a 2 or 4 year degree, adding an additional 2-4 years of people NOT looking for jobs within their cohort. Now jobs are really scarce and may require a Masters or PHD, adding an additional 2-7 years of people NOT looking for jobs within their cohort.

Basically the way the economy has been structured TODAY, we are looking at young people within their cohort whom are NOT looking for full-time, career type, employment for 6-15 YEARS while they finish school!!!

This has been done ON PURPOSE to keep the number people seeking employment lower. In 1920 after 8th grade everyone who was able went out to look for work and found it, that's simply NOT possible today under any circumstances. What some of you seem to be missing with HanzHenry analysis is that WELFARE availability will add another 1-3 years of people within a cohort to those "not seeking employment", not to the specific detriment of society, but to continue to mask the illusion that jobs are available. So if someone gets a graduate degree and collects 1-3 years of welfare of some kind that's ONE less person competing for scarce jobs. The extra years of welfare then are acting in the same way to the larger economy as the increased minimum education levels for employment. Essentially to decrease the number of able-bodied applicants out on the job market at the same time.


No response to this yet besides the OP? As HanzHenry has said, this cohort of people not pursuing full-time employment also includes those in Prison, Government pensioners and the disabled on government assistance. If everyone needed to go out and "get a job" as many here suggest we would all be making 0.25 cents a day.

Here's a little history lesson for those whom don't seem to know much about how "the owners of capital" have run societies through the ages. Guess when the largest "recorded" wage increase happened in history for, non-land owing, wage-laborers, post the introduction of fiat currency?

Any ideas?

I'll tell you, it was after the black death pandemic in the 14th century.

How is that possible? Because "the owners of capital" post-black-death-pandemic still needed wage-laborers, but there was a HUGE shortage of able bodied people, so in order for the work to get done they had to pay them more, SIGNIFICANTLY MORE. This principle is still at work today, when you take the time to recognize that portions of the population are actively discouraged from participating in the full-time labor market. This is easily done, by throwing people in prison, forcing them to attend formal school longer and allowing more people to claim themselves as disabled. The next obvious step for government to further reduce the number of people participating in the full-time labor market is to allow them easier access to welfare. I'm not going to go into the specific economic theory, but this above noted cohort of non-participants keeps wages stable. If they all entered the jobs the market simultaneously wages would crash just as they had, PRE-black death pandemic in the 14th century.

I will now go on to my next point below.
edit on 19-8-2013 by boohoo because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-8-2013 by boohoo because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-8-2013 by boohoo because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-8-2013 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by WhoKnows100

In which case, even your welfare solution doesn't address the point of WHY WE NEED MONEY AT ALL. It's a con and has only created individualism. I don't need a " welfare cheque" if I don't need money. Money is only needed when a society places value on what it produces.


I can explain why we are forced to use money, very easily, codes and ordinances, PERIOD.

If you think you can just "barter & trade" you way out the economy with the slew of laws and regulations on the books in the USA, you are fooling yourself. Short term anything is possible, but if "barter & trade" was picked up among the general population, you better be ready because the government would come after you the same way they did with the "raw milk co-op" raids. America is not India or China, in those places "shanty towns" are essentially legal, no running water necessary, so people barter, beg and earn wages/food/shelter by any means possible. The societies of India and China recognize that not everyone can be employed though fiat currency and only earn a hand to mouth existence, making adherence to a majority of "civilized/modern ordinances" impossible. So they turn a blind eye to "code and policy violations".

This not possible in the USA, in some cities a maximum of 1 unrelated person is allowed per room, you need an address to be gainfully employed for fiat currency payments, you need a drivers license and a checking account. Essentially our laws have not caught up with the reality of the economy. We have laws that people eventually will not able to AFFORD to follow. Any government on earth, no matter how willing, can't successfully criminalize a large segment of their population. We also know our government does not have the will to repeal laws. So what will happen when 50%+ of you population is in violation of building codes, living in shanty towns and 10 people to an apartment? My personal opinion is that they will not let it get that far, nor will they adopt the kinds of polices that help China and India deal with a large underclass populations, incapable of paying the fees associated with "code compliance".

The only other choice when these conditions eventually arise will be the expansion of welfare.



The only way to fix the problem is to have a global currency and to outlaw money making money.
If you don`t provide a service or produce something you shouldn`t be paid or make any money, allowing money to make money should be considered a crime against humanity.


The "owners of capital" already fought against this happening on a global scale and won. Hitler lost and you can bet your butt they will never let it happen again. This idea is and always will be DOA, contingencies are already in place to prevent the idea from gaining traction.
edit on 19-8-2013 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by HanzHenry
 

I see your logic in a twisted way, and agree with it in a twisted way.

There is a way to fix things, but the guys running the show have all the money and all the control. If you can write laws to make your business more profitable, or make it a law that people are mandated to do business with you, that's really just kinda wrong, and the year before you had your cheesy little law passed mandating that people do business with you it was probably ILLEGAL for you to push that hard .

The government of the U.S. needs to put limits on what can be charged for what people need to survive in order for people to even be able to get by. It doesn't need to be some draconian clamp that inhibits every type of business, just those things people cannot live without need to be within the people's reach.

Keep prices for what people NEED low enough so everyone can get what they NEED, it doesn't have to be given to them for free, just make sure they can get it without killing themselves.

If they want to subsidize people, that's fine until they figure out a different way of doing business, because business is the problem. If something isn't done it will reset all by itself anyway, because not only are people dropping out of the work force (And it isn't necessarily voluntary) they will start dropping off of the above ground economy completely if they can get what they need easier than the established way.

Once enough drop completely out of the economy it falls apart, and food stamps are a big part of what keeps it going at all, for those of you who have some twisted notion that people don't deserve any help, I really would like to hear how you feel when it collapses, when you grow up and open your eyes, cuz you're gonna get it too.

The more people there are in the world, the more people there are to do the work, with advances in technology this is true, of course there are those dopes that want to disagree with this, but that isn't really about being a business person, it's about control more than anything else. Nobody should have to work 80 hours per week, really, we should all be happily employed part time.

Charging what the market will bear only costs a large portion of the market, entire segments of the population being priced right out of it.

It is a form of DESCRIMINATION, and can be plainly seen by the way business refuses to pay a wage that allows those who do the work to even purchase those things they have a hand in producing.

edit on 19-8-2013 by MyHappyDogShiner because: Prrofed but still missed one....



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by HanzHenry
You are being SO DISINGENOUS ...Intellectually DISHONEST..

discuss any point.. refute a single one..

YOU are not very good at strawmen arguments... address my points or leave. your self aggrandizing is lamely attempting to discredit me..

typical sheeple move


As I guessed, we are not on the same playing field, but I will leave you and your asshole attitude with this,

If everyone is on welfare and nobody is working, who do you think is going to be in charge?

That's right brain child, the few with all the money, and they won't take care of you like you would take care of you. So get used to grabbing those ankles buttercup. Put some leather in between your teeth so you can save them.

And no, I don't need a dumbass condescending reply,



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by MyHappyDogShiner
reply to post by HanzHenry
 

Keep prices for what people NEED low enough so everyone can get what they NEED, it doesn't have to be given to them for free, just make sure they can get it without killing themselves.


This is correct. This is precisely what India and China do indirectly by having laxer codes, policies and regulations, for a wide range of things operating within their societies. Across the board, it makes low quality food cheaper, poor housing becomes available and low wages can then be supplemented by barter & trade, allowing the impoverished to feed and cloth themselves, without the restrictions of precises codes & regulation. The codes in the USA are so restrictive that it is impossible to do the same and in many cases criminalizes survival behavior.

Also another side issue that would reduce the amount of those needing welfare is some kind of policy that guarantees people the "right" to hold two or three, part-time jobs. As it stands now companies use scheduling software, which purposely fluctuates the schedules of part-time retail-staff, in such a way that it is difficult or impossible for them to get a second part-time job. If they had the "right" to hold two or even three jobs they might be able to eek out a better existence by the "sweat of their brow". Private sector employers refusing to give more working hours is another reason the government will need to step in and provide welfare in the future.

Corporations and government have three choices at this point, offer full-time hours to more people, allow more flexible schedules so employees can hold more than one part-time job, OR provide welfare. It should be plainly obvious that the "political will" is not there to do anything BUT provide welfare, in order to supplement part-time employment coupled with restrictive, part-time, work schedules.



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 06:00 PM
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Corporations need to be put back where they were before 1819, corporate personhood needs to be revoked. Corporations are Monopolies dancing around calling themselves something they are not, and they were illegal before 1819 for very good reason.

I consider it ridiculous for anyone to have to work 3 part time jobs to get by, not only because prices keep rising, but wages seem to lag many years back from realistic costs of living.

Something needs to be changed into a thing that does not yet exist, many with the power to control refuse to change their practices. These ways of doing things those in control use create many of the cases of mental illness and other health issues by creating undue amounts of stress, like being penalized for just being unfortunate enough to be born into the whole mess.

Most people don't even realize what a mess it is until after they are too old to influence change, the young need to realize that someday they won't be able to work so hard, and low wages and lack of any real benefits toward later in life are being removed constantly.

If things just keep going the way they are going, It'll fix itself when there are too few people participating in the economy for businesses not to reduce prices.

The country is being run by a bunch of "Economic Extremists", markets cannot be allowed to regulate themselves, they have proven themselves unworthy of having such freedom multiple times throughout history.



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by MyHappyDogShiner
reply to post by HanzHenry
 

I see your logic in a twisted way, and agree with it in a twisted way.

There is a way to fix things, but the guys running the show have all the money and all the control. If you can write laws to make your business more profitable, or make it a law that people are mandated to do business with you, that's really just kinda wrong, and the year before you had your cheesy little law passed mandating that people do business with you it was probably ILLEGAL for you to push that hard .

The government of the U.S. needs to put limits on what can be charged for what people need to survive in order for people to even be able to get by. It doesn't need to be some draconian clamp that inhibits every type of business, just those things people cannot live without need to be within the people's reach.

Keep prices for what people NEED low enough so everyone can get what they NEED, it doesn't have to be given to them for free, just make sure they can get it without killing themselves.

If they want to subsidize people, that's fine until they figure out a different way of doing business, because business is the problem. If something isn't done it will reset all by itself anyway, because not only are people dropping out of the work force (And it isn't necessarily voluntary) they will start dropping off of the above ground economy completely if they can get what they need easier than the established way.

Once enough drop completely out of the economy it falls apart, and food stamps are a big part of what keeps it going at all, for those of you who have some twisted notion that people don't deserve any help, I really would like to hear how you feel when it collapses, when you grow up and open your eyes, cuz you're gonna get it too.

The more people there are in the world, the more people there are to do the work, with advances in technology this is true, of course there are those dopes that want to disagree with this, but that isn't really about being a business person, it's about control more than anything else. Nobody should have to work 80 hours per week, really, we should all be happily employed part time.

Charging what the market will bear only costs a large portion of the market, entire segments of the population being priced right out of it.

It is a form of DESCRIMINATION, and can be plainly seen by the way business refuses to pay a wage that allows those who do the work to even purchase those things they have a hand in producing.

edit on 19-8-2013 by MyHappyDogShiner because: Prrofed but still missed one....


Twisted .. I know... it is the biggest PARADIGM shift of my life.. I as a young marine was about as anti-welfare as anyone. Then I grew up and analyzed everything without my programmed dogma.

Supply and Demand ... that simple.

American middle class, Unions, labor movement happened because of one reason..

STRIKES!! violent ones.. cross the picket line risk death... this is the truth! up into the early 80's.

Now, all you are taught is "sit down" strikes,, If it was as easy as temper tantrum sit downs there would of never been picket lines.. this allowed workers to SHUT DOWN facilities because scabs coudn;t get in to work.

We are far past being able to form ACTUAL picket lines.. We are outgunned by the jackboots



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by HanzHenry
You are being SO DISINGENOUS ...Intellectually DISHONEST..

discuss any point.. refute a single one..

YOU are not very good at strawmen arguments... address my points or leave. your self aggrandizing is lamely attempting to discredit me..

typical sheeple move


As I guessed, we are not on the same playing field, but I will leave you and your asshole attitude with this,

If everyone is on welfare and nobody is working, who do you think is going to be in charge?

That's right brain child, the few with all the money, and they won't take care of you like you would take care of you. So get used to grabbing those ankles buttercup. Put some leather in between your teeth so you can save them.

And no, I don't need a dumbass condescending reply,


why are you taking such a simple minded approach..

Welfare -----FOR----- everyone does NOT mean "well, der, golly gee Batman. then everyone will sit around"..

WRONG!!... people can choose to live a decent life OR, live a GREAT life without a million other blokes competing for the same job.

DO you not understand supply and demand?

at all? DO you have ANY education regarding the actual US labor movement?

Its a numbers game! more workers = lower pay = desperation = lower pay = under cutting others to live..

tell me , what is the endgame? look around...



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 08:41 PM
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Thanks but NO! You haven't stumbled upon a new solution. What you've stumbled on is Soviet style Communism.

It doesn't work. Try reading a book or two on the subject and get back to us.



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 09:13 PM
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I grew up living all around the country/world I am not speaking like a WV miner.. although my grandfather did die of black lung in his 50's from coal mining.. back when they were literal slaves for "the company"..

Strip away all the automatic response mechanism ideas this next statement creates in you.
Cuba is isolated, but still they create competitive people who leave with a vengance they hate that situation don't they. Who stays there and likes it?



Wiki: Cuba is a developing country, but it still has both a high life expectancy and literacy rate. The country operates a national health system and assumes fiscal and administrative responsibility for the health care of all its citizens;[17] the infant death rate is lower than some developed countries,[18] and the average life expectancy at birth is 78 years.[3] Cuba has a 99.8% literacy rate[3][19] with free education at every level.[20] According to the United Nations, Cuba was the only nation in the world in 2006 that met the World Wide Fund for Nature's definition of sustainable development, with an ecological footprint of less than 1.8 hectares per capita and a Human Development Index of over 0.8 for 2007.[21]

edit on 19-8-2013 by Emeraldous because: The devils flee thats who.



posted on Aug, 19 2013 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by HanzHenry
This is a complete heart fluttering 180 degree PARADIGM shift for me personally. And in layman's terms simplified for dummies like me. But still hopefully coherent to those more eloquent.

There is only ONE HOPE for any type of decent life here in Merca.. everything must be OWNED by the Govvie. Or else America will FALL!! -- I GET IT NOW..

The reason we can't "fix our mess, pull up or boot straps, and get the adult kids out the house" is mostly BECAUSE OF THE F--n HOUSE! the cost to house one's self is RIDICULOUS at a global competitive wage.

We can't fix this problem because high home values keeps the wheels of PONZI spinning!!

1. taxes, taxes, taxes, taxes..... higher the values of real estate, more $$$$ tax.
2. we can't fix the bloated home prices mess because that money is counted on for TAX!
3. the entire rest of the economy has their HOOKS somewhere in 7 (or less) degrees of Bacon attached to it.


And you know why? Because the statists have infiltrated and permeated the entire establishment. They're making things outrageously, impossibly expensive ON PURPOSE because they know it will undermine the whole system in the long run.

If you want to sabotage anything, you have to find some way to get inside and do it from within. That's the only way sabotage can work.

It would just make good business sense for people who really valued this system to voluntarily adopt good and ethical business practices and find a way to do it affordable. If you value something, you take proactive steps to protect it. Right? You want to preserve it. Even if you don't care about other people, it just makes sense to protect your cash cow.

You cannot do this when you have all these thousands and thousands of Marxist cockroaches coming out of every nook and cranny pulling every underhanded, dirty trick in the book to steer people the way they want them to go.

Only a shortsighted idiot would deliberately undermine the system that makes his/her livelihood possible. UNLESS they have ulterior motives.

Hmmm. Now I wonder what those could be? Let's see. Does the term "obvious" mean anything to you? It's always the same jerkoffs trying to undermine this system and I'm sad to say they've done a hell of a number on it.

But that's OK. You go ahead and believe whatever you want. Because you put the government completely in charge of everything and you will be owned by the same people who wanted it done.
edit on 19-8-2013 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:04 AM
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There was a short period of time a few years back where I found myself unfortunate enough to need help from the system. It was myself, my husband and our child. I was extremely pregnant and in and out of the hospital. We were getting the maximum in food/cash assistance and still had to beg, borrow and steal to just keep the lights on.

How people live on welfare for an extended period of time without some sort of illegal supplementation of income is beyond me. They must be far better at that whole budgeting business than yours truly.

Give up and collect my check every month? Are you kidding me? I would sell my right leg not to have to step foot in the department of health and human services building ever again.

I suppose however everyone is different. My self esteem is worth a bit more than that though.



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by BrianFlanders
 


The govt IS ALL--- already in charge of everything.. except

Under this corporate fascism... we have the worst of both worlds.


be honest... the govt doesn't already control it all?

wow dude, that mentality is so last decade,

get up to speed



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
People work. That = taxes paid.
Taxes paid = money for welfare, some legitimate, some slugs and low lifers to damn lazy to work.
if everyone was on welfare, = no taxes paid.

Therefore.........no more money for Government, no more money for welfare, no more money.

If you doubt my math, multiply any number you want X zero. See. =0
well I see your point you are trying to make but I will also bring up the fact that we pay taxes with money that isn't worth the paper it's printed on because it isn't backed by anything.... So truthfully collecting taxes is actually worthless



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by Fortysixandtwo
There was a short period of time a few years back where I found myself unfortunate enough to need help from the system. It was myself, my husband and our child. I was extremely pregnant and in and out of the hospital. We were getting the maximum in food/cash assistance and still had to beg, borrow and steal to just keep the lights on.

How people live on welfare for an extended period of time without some sort of illegal supplementation of income is beyond me. They must be far better at that whole budgeting business than yours truly.

Give up and collect my check every month? Are you kidding me? I would sell my right leg not to have to step foot in the department of health and human services building ever again.

I suppose however everyone is different. My self esteem is worth a bit more than that though.



self esteem?

being PUNKED by the corporate masters for ever lower pay?


Animal House "thank you may I have another?".... what pride in that!



posted on Aug, 20 2013 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by agentblue

Originally posted by network dude
People work. That = taxes paid.
Taxes paid = money for welfare, some legitimate, some slugs and low lifers to damn lazy to work.
if everyone was on welfare, = no taxes paid.

Therefore.........no more money for Government, no more money for welfare, no more money.

If you doubt my math, multiply any number you want X zero. See. =0
well I see your point you are trying to make but I will also bring up the fact that we pay taxes with money that isn't worth the paper it's printed on because it isn't backed by anything.... So truthfully collecting taxes is actually worthless


dude is so lost... hopelessly lost.


he actually thinks people's work is where taxes come from...LMFAO!!

every penny in wages is written of as business expenses! so, when we "pay taxes" we aren't actually..

the real taxes are Equity based..

anyone with any knowledge at all in finance understands this..

I LOVE the programmed usual sheeple drivel I get.... its like the greatest hits of empty dogmatic phrases..




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