I've been toying with the idea of writing this thread for a while. I wasn't exactly sure how and where to present it. So, here it goes. For a few
years now I've been reading threads posted by others, I've written quite a few of my own and have participated in some very well written and
articulated arguments and hypothesis with regards to various conjecture filled premises. I'd like to share one of my own with you. This idea has been
bouncing around in my head for quite some time now.....
Out of Africa....
Ok, fine, Then what? Where did they go and how early did we 'Come out of Africa' My understanding from what I've read we came out of Africa quite some
time ago. Some estimate it as early as 123,000 +/- B.C.
New research points to earlier human migration out of
Africa, 125,000 years ago
For decades, the consensus scientific opinion has held that anatomically modern humans first migrated out of Africa
some 60,000 years ago, heading north into the eastern Mediterranean region and then on to Europe and Asia.
But new research released Thursday paints a very different picture. Similarly identifiable humans left Africa as early as 125,000 years ago, it
says, and wandered east into the Arabian peninsula, parts of which were then wet and lush.
"Wet and Lush" I'm going to let that sink in for a minute. Think about that. The Gulf was not as we know it today. It was a lush river valley. Now, if
people were migrating out across the desert they would have eventually traveled to the location we in the modern world presently know as the
Persian/Arabian Gulf. We know that two of the worlds earliest culture/civilizations are located nearby and have often been speculated upon as being
connected somehow. Sumer
Indus Valley civilization
The direct connection between the two has never been established. Although there’s ample evidence of trade. The real speculation and some here may
find this a bit out there or too far outside the box
Those two and a couple of others (Yet to be mentioned) had a connection but not within the known written texts that have survived to the present day?
Could there have been a period much much earlier in our prehistory of a civilization that was centrally located between the two? Possibly. I say
possibly because we are dealing with legends and myths from both cultures/civilizations at the earliest point in their collective histories. Most of
which was shared by word of mouth before they wrote their earliest accounts. Both speak of a 'Flood' now before we go any further. NO!, I'm not trying
to support any form of "Biblical" archaeology. As a Matter of fact, in this thread I'll strive to [as always] tweak both camps [Secular and Devout]
To me both camps want it exactly how they perceive it "Even if there are interesting and unanswered questions" with their accepted version of events
or they simply dig in their heels and fall back on known and regurgitated dogma and beliefs. Sad but true I'm afraid. Not so here, here we shall
explore another version of events....
Let us begin. I started my journey reading the following story which I posted quite some time ago. Here is one perspective on the topic which I'm sure
many here will disagree with.
Lost Civilization beneath the
Persian Gulf Confirms Genesis History of Humanity
In almost every culture and religion of the world lies a story of a lost
civilization. The Greeks told the tale of a sophisticated island nation suddenly submerged. However, the Greeks were not the only people group to
embrace an Atlantis-type legend; many cultures recounted the lost-city-beneath-the-sea scenario. The ubiquitous nature of these stories, accounts, and
legends lends credence to the possibility that in the early days of humanity’s history a relatively advanced civilization was indeed lost.
Now, a research paper published in Current Anthropology provides scientific evidence for such a lost ancient civilization, evidence that confirms much
of Genesis 1–11’s historical account of humanity’s early days.1 University of Birmingham archeologist Jeffrey Rose reports on the discovery,
conducted over the past six years, of over sixty new archeological sites along the shoreline of the Persian Gulf. All of these sites are dated as
older than 7,500 years. Rose states that “these settlements boast well-built permanent stone houses, long-distance trade networks, elaborately
decorated pottery, domesticated animals, and even evidence for one of the oldest boats in the world.”2 In 2006, archeologist Hans-Peter Uerpmann of
the University of Tubingen in Germany uncovered the remains of three different settlements that date between 25,000 and 125,000 years old at the base
of Jebel Faya in the United Arab Emirates.
In his paper, Rose points out that during the late Pleistocene epoch (150,000 to 12,000 years ago) reduced sea levels periodically exposed the “Gulf
Oasis.” The Persian Gulf receded to such a degree as to bring above the surface a landmass as large as, or larger than, Great Britain. Rose explains
that this landmass was well watered by four large rivers flowing at the time: the Tigris, Euphrates, Karun, and Wadi Batin. Additionally, the region
was watered by fresh water springs supplied by subterranean aquifers flowing beneath the Arabian subcontinent. Such an abundant and well-distributed
supply of fresh water combined with the region’s warm weather would have supported a lush agricultural enterprise.
I'll now post an earlier take on it as well. I'm not going to comment on the various spins one chooses to put on them but it does make me wonder and
speculate could this flood be the source for Noah and or the earlier Sumerian texts etc.
Lost Civilization May Have Existed Beneath the Persian
December 09, 2010 05:56am ET
Veiled beneath the Persian Gulf, a once-fertile landmass may have supported some of the earliest humans outside Africa some 75,000 to 100,000 years
ago, a new review of research suggests.
At its peak, the floodplain now below the Gulf would have been about the size of Great Britain, and then shrank as water began to flood the area.
Then, about 8,000 years ago, the land would have been swallowed up by the Indian Ocean, the review scientist said.
The study, which is detailed in the December issue of the journal Current Anthropology, has broad implications for aspects of human history. For
instance, scientists have debated over when early modern humans exited Africa, with dates as early as 125,000 years ago and as recent as 60,000 years
ago (the more recent date is the currently accepted paradigm), according to study researcher Jeffrey Rose, an archaeologist at the University of
Birmingham in the U.K.
"I think Jeff's theory is bold and imaginative, and hopefully will shake things up," Robert Carter of Oxford Brookes University in the U.K. told
LiveScience. "It would completely rewrite our understanding of the out-of-Africa migration. It is far from proven, but Jeff and others will be
developing research programs to test the theory."
Viktor Cerny of the Archaeogenetics Laboratory, the Institute of Archaeology, in Prague, called Rose's finding an "excellent theory," in an e-mail to
LiveScience, though he also points out the need for more research to confirm it.
The findings have sparked discussion among researchers, including Carter and Cerny, who were allowed to provide comments within the research paper,
about who exactly the humans were who occupied the Gulf basin.
Great question eh? Who were they? When did they settle there? What were their accomplishments? Where did they go once the Indian ocean began spilling
over into the gulf and the fresh water river was replaced by sea water rushing in? Did they pack up and head inland or up mountains which became
This map reveals the Arabian Peninsula with regions that were exposed as sea levels fell, and so became environmental refuges, possibly for some
of the earliest humans out of Africa.
What is the true history of the region? What is the accepted academic version? Well, let’s see what Wiki *I know, not my favorite either but for
argument sake* has to say about the topic.
The shallow basin that now underlies the Gulf was an extensive
region of river valley and wetlands during the transition between the end of the Last Glacial Maximum and the start of the Holocene, which, according
to University of Birmingham archaeologist Jeffrey Rose, served as an environmental refuge for early humans during periodic hyperarid climate
oscillations, laying the foundations for the legend of Dilmun. For most of the early history of the settlements in the Persian Gulf, the southern
shores were ruled by a series of nomadic tribes.
‘The Legend of Dilmun’ ?
Hmmmm.. Sounds interesting. Let’s look into that one .
Dilmun, sometimes described as "the place where the sun rises" and "the Land of the Living", is the scene of some versions of the Sumerian
creation myth, and the place where the deified Sumerian hero of the flood, Utnapishtim (Ziusudra), was taken by the gods to live forever. Thorkild
Jacobsen's translation of the Eridu Genesis calls it "Mount Dilmun" which he locates as a "faraway, half-mythical place".
Dilmun is also described in the epic story of Enki and Ninhursag as the site at which the Creation occurred. The promise of Enki to Ninhursag, the
Earth Mother: For Dilmun, the land of my lady's heart, I will create long waterways, rivers and canals, whereby water will flow to quench the thirst
of all beings and bring abundance to all that lives. Ninlil, the Sumerian goddess of air and south wind had her home in Dilmun. It is also featured in
the Epic of Gilgamesh.
However, in the early epic "Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta", the main events, which center on Enmerkar's construction of the ziggurats in Uruk and
Eridu, are described as taking place in a world "before Dilmun had yet been settled".
Lots of interesting references. Are we possibly seeing tiny tidbits of real events watered down through the preceding millennia’s and exaggerated
and or distorted by time and elaborations? Now, I’m not saying we should take any of that as being 100% accurate but, I question is it possible that
we are missing some version of events that may very well be part of our now lost prehistoric record?
Now what about the Indus Valley Civilization?
Could they be older than first thought? I’ve read an interesting article which I’ll link below that raises some interesting speculation on that
matter. It seems they to being just outside the Gulf region and being equally by some estimates as old as Sumer they too could maybe have had at
least part of their earliest roots either established by or influenced by those people who populated the lush prehistoric gulf river valley.
IS THE HARAPPAN CIVILISATION 2000 YEARS
The recent International Conference on Harappan Archaeology produced an unexpected announcement from archaeologists BR Mani and KN
Dik#, both of the Archaeological Survey of India, who claim that new dates from excavations show the Harappan culture began around 2000 years earlier
than previously thought.
The ruins of the Harrapan city of Mohenjo-daro remained undocumented for over 3,700 years, until their discovery in 1922 by Rakhaldas Bandyopadhyay,
an officer of the Archaeological Survey of India. He was led to the mound by a Buddhist monk, who reportedly believed it to be a stupa.
Based on their research, which has yet to be fully published, the two archaeologists said in a presentation: “The preliminary results of the
data from early sites of the Indo-Pak subcontinent suggest that the Indian civilisation emerged in the 8th millennium BC in the Ghaggar-Hakra and
“On the basis of radio-metric dates from Bhirrana (Haryana), the cultural remains of the pre-early Harappan horizon go back to between 7380 to 6201
Now many here are already familiar with my views and writing on the topic of sunken Indian prehistoric locations. Were they too just submerged when
the Gulf Region was as well? I know some will argue as they always have that the region in question “Didn’t flood overnight in some cataclysm”
Well? So what if it didn’t? If NY or London or even Tokyo were to be flooded out I doubt they’d dismantle buildings to relocate them inland or
higher up. People would simply have to pack up and either move inland or up fresh water river valleys and start over.
Isn’t it interesting that both Sumer and the Indus Valley civilizations speak of flood myths, All seem to have developed very similar writing styles
and had major advances at the earliest stages of known human history.
Is it possible or plausible they both had their roots or part of their story anchored in an even older civilization or at least in an advanced
‘Culture’ now submerged beneath the Persian/Arabian Gulf? We find interesting stories in other location within the Gulf itself. Stories from
Bahrain and Susa….
Inhabited since ancient times, Bahrain occupies a strategic location in the Persian Gulf. It is the best natural port between the mouth of the Tigris,
Euphrates Rivers and Oman, a source of copper in ancient times. Bahrain may have been associated with the Dilmun civilisation, an important Bronze Age
trade centre linking Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley. It was later ruled by the Assyrians and Babylonians. It came under the control of Persians,
and then Arabs, under whom the island first became Nestorian Christian and then Islamic
In urban history, Susa is one of the oldest-known settlements of the region and the
world. Based on C14 dating, the foundation of a settlement there occurred as early as 4395 BCE (a calibrated radio-carbon date). Archeologists have
dated the first traces of an inhabited Neolithic village to c 7000 BCE. Evidence of a painted-pottery civilization has been dated to c 5000 BCE. Its
name in Elamite was written variously Ŝuŝan, Ŝuŝun, etc. The origin of the word Susa is from the local city deity Inshushinak.
So, the question becomes are these locations, Sumer, Bahrain, Susa and the Indus Valley remnants of a much older either Advanced culture or Earlier
Civilizations or is it also possible they were influenced by those now unknown people of the submerged location we call the Gulf? What of the
Sumerians themselves? Where exactly did they come from? I’m not talking about the
nor the Elamites
. They came
later in the earliest points in known Sumerian history.
Finally, I’ll leave you with this rather interesting perspective…
Lost Civilization Under Persian Gulf?
"Perhaps it is no coincidence that
the founding of such remarkably well developed communities along the shoreline corresponds with the flooding of the Persian Gulf basin around 8,000
years ago," Rose said. "These new colonists may have come from the heart of the Gulf, displaced by rising water levels that plunged the once fertile
landscape beneath the waters of the Indian Ocean."
Historical sea level data show that, prior to the flood, the Gulf basin would have been above water beginning about 75,000 years ago. And it would
have been an ideal refuge from the harsh deserts surrounding it, with fresh water supplied by the Tigris, Euphrates, Karun, and Wadi Baton Rivers, as
well as by underground springs. When conditions were at their driest in the surrounding hinterlands, the Gulf Oasis would have been at its largest in
terms of exposed land area. At its peak, the exposed basin would have been about the size of Great Britain, Rose says.
Evidence is also emerging that modern humans could have been in the region even before the oasis was above water. Recently discovered
archaeological sites in Yemen and Oman have yielded a stone tool style that is distinct from the East African tradition. That raises the possibility
that humans were established on the southern part of the Arabian Peninsula beginning as far back as 100,000 years ago or more, Rose says. That is far
earlier than the estimates generated by several recent migration models, which place the first successful migration into Arabia between 50,000 and
70,000 years ago.
The Gulf Oasis would have been available to these early migrants, and would have provided "a sanctuary throughout the Ice Ages when much of the region
was rendered uninhabitable due to hyperaridity," Rose said. "The presence of human groups in the oasis fundamentally alters our understanding of human
emergence and cultural evolution in the ancient Near East."
I'd like to read your thoughts and views on this very real possibility. I know for some the 'Bible' is the truth about the 'Flood' and for Science if
it's not something they can dig up and carbon date they get a bit myopic. Just keep in mind that we humans have been pretty damn smart and resilient
group since day one imho. Why couldn't there have been an advanced culture or early civilization under the Gulf which branched out either before or
shortly after being flooded out and either seeded or influenced those two known cradle civilizations? It was old enough and central to both Sumer and
the Indus Valley?
Food for thought, as always my friends..
edit on 18-8-2013 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)