John Mack's Abduction

Hi there,

Despite being interested in UFOs for some time, I am pretty new to the Alien Abduction phenomenon. Then I read John Mack's book and was really kind of blown away. The phenomenon was not about what I thought, or rather it was about much more than I ever realized.

I keep a blog that typically covers other topics, but I now have a new category for UFOs/Alien Abduction. Thought some of you might enjoy reading the post I wrote about Mack's book and alien abduction, in general. Any feedback, additional info or insights would be very interesting to hear.

I think these two paragraphs summarize some aspects of the phenomenon that I found fascinating.

More here for those interested:

Abduction

The abduction phenomenon is a clear challenge to the dualistic thinking in Western Cultures. Over the course of the past centuries we have segregated reality into two opposite, or dual, realms, between what we consider to be real and what we consider to be unreal. In general, the physical is regarded as real, while the spiritual is regarded as unreal. Many folks are religious/spiritual in our society, but we don't dare talk about "taboo" topics like this in public. Science dictates what is real by what can be measured. The nonphysical cannot be defined, let alone measured in an experimental setup. However, the alien abduction phenomenon consists of many subtleties, which cannot be fully resolved into these two different camps - real/unreal, physical/nonphysical, etc. It fully encompasses and transcends these dualistic notions and it challenges our perceptions of consensus reality. The full spectrum of the experience spans the subjective-objective gap, where the lines between real and unreal, between physical experience and psychological experience, become blurred. Indeed, I think it makes it obvious that the bipolar views of physical vs nonphysical is an inherently limited concept that reality is probably not limited to. The abduction phenomenon challenges us to gain a deeper, more profound view of reality - a view that seems to be very much in accord with the age-old wisdom traditions contained within all cultures.

Upon reading this list, the spiritual, or consciousness expanding aspect, of the abduction phenomenon becomes obvious. In regards to the double human/alien identity, which is a difficult one to swallow (as if the rest isn't!), I think there is a reasonable explanation. In yogic lore and other traditions, unity consciousness is mentioned, where subject and object merge and a state of Oneness is experienced. I think an encounter with an advanced consciousness, such as with these alien beings, could potentially force this experience upon a person, before they are ready to fully interpret, or understand, the experience, thereby creating a mistaken dual human/alien identity. As I mentioned above, abductees are often afraid to look into the eyes for fear of "a loss of self". Or, imagine suddenly becoming fully psychic and hearing others thoughts and experiencing others emotions, as clearly and distinctly as your own. Could this become disorienting, causing one to lose track of who is originating which thoughts and feelings? Could it serve to bring about an identity crisis of sorts? Thinking along these lines could perhaps explain why aliens "haven't landed on the White House lawn", as it is popularly phrased. It could very well be dangerous for humanity as a whole to interact with such an advanced consciousness at this point in time. It could be they currently prefer this lower level of interaction, which sends a message (through the mouths of abductees) and encourages a development of consciousness (which is already underway!) within humanity, helping to lead us down a path to where we will be ready to meet them "face to face". All speculation, of course!

I'm now looking forward to reading Passport to the Cosmos!

Well, you've seem to hit on the Mother Load of abduction analysis that it took me 20 years to fathom.

Yes, Mack's works are the rare breath of fresh air in the entire UFO phenomenon.
His interviews with abductees leads to the conclusion that somehow some of these
abductees have agreed to the encounter. They meet their group mind.

What he tapped into is the idea that we have an identity on a cosmic scale,
and this identity is often with a group mind civilization.
The soul then incarnates into different physical forms to gain experience
and soul growth. The real identity is with this group that we come from.
Some from reptilian, some from Nordic, some from the Gray cultures, but none
of the incarnations are permanent.

The abduction experience is very close to the study of Near-Death Experiences, where
the conscious mind seems to transcend not just the body but the entire physical framework
that most of us take for granted as being "reality."

Both NDEs and Mack's insights reveal a whole new cosmology:
That we are indeed spirits undergoing a temporary and limited experience in a 3-dimensional
world. Our true nature it seems is a powerful soul that in essence slows down and forgets
in order to experience a material life.

This same theme can be seen in many spiritual works, Buddhism, and the literature
of Dolores Cannon (Convoluted Universe), Michael Newton (Journey of Souls) and others.
It will be interesting to read further.

Thanks for your post.

Originally posted by EthanT
Hi there,

Despite being interested in UFOs for some time, I am pretty new to the Alien Abduction phenomenon. Then I read John Mack's book and was really kind of blown away. The phenomenon was not about what I thought, or rather it was about much more than I ever realized.

I keep a blog that typically covers other topics, but I now have a new category for UFOs/Alien Abduction. Thought some of you might enjoy reading the post I wrote about Mack's book and alien abduction, in general. Any feedback, additional info or insights would be very interesting to hear.

I think these two paragraphs summarize some aspects of the phenomenon that I found fascinating.

More here for those interested:

Abduction

I'm now looking forward to reading Passport to the Cosmos!

Nice post. I enjoy this subject. Nevertheless its a discussion that has been extremely redacted in the unquantified nature of the people and their stories. So, on one side we have these folks who tell their stories, and then we have the other people (investigators, authors, etc.) who publish them for profit.

Having said that, there are certain ideas which take on a life of their own, pulling us into philosophically induced rabbit holes. Everything from dimensional beings to reincarnation.

I think one of the most poignant examples is this idea of dividing things into categories, such as the physical and non-physical. It has no place in the fact that everything has a fundamental root structure in a common matrix of matter. It is arguable that even the human spirit or the intellect (whatever it is that makes us tick as living entities) is the stuff of this universe within various levels of its structure (including the quantum matter). The dark matter and dark energy that binds us as existing in a evolutionary, self awareness state, is also the stuff of all creatures.

Our extended environment is a complex matrix of opposing forces working together to create a sophisticated balance. We are all made of the same material within a common substructure. The universe has a story to tell, and it is not one of material vs immaterial. That's purely a fictional interpretation spawned of the human mind and sadly a relic of primeval ancestral superstition.

All UFO books are quintessentially composed of such ancestral interpolations. Even the great Dr Mack, head of the Harvard Psychiatric Dept. fell into that hole. Perhaps it was an instrument to protect his integrity in the face of his abductee research, which brought him considerable ire from colleagues, who wanted him dismissed and pressured him to resign by the implications of this work. Even his scholarly discipline in the field of mindology was somewhat tainted by mythology repackaged in modern terms.

I think that the best researched story was that of Barney and Betty Hill. It was well documented by a well known physician who understood the fine points of regression. Betty always kept her dress, which was torn when by her account, she was forced to enter into the examination room. Barney's old shoes bore the marks of having been dragged from his car to the ship. The story was new and unpolluted. I think it was also significant that a few months after the Hill's story broke, Betty accepted an invitation to spend a weekend camping in the New Hampshire countryside with a group of scientists, who asked her many questions about her experience. This was not published in the book however.

Most investigators are unscientific in their approach and discipline and simply publish the stories they gather from people claiming to be abductees. People like Bud Hopkins and Linda Howe are in it for the money. The physicists, Jacques Vallée and Allen Hynek documented only high strangeness cases to bolster their combined theorem that there are no physical extraterrestrials visiting Earth.

We are always working within cultural biases and ancestral memories. Even scientists are subject to such conditions that their research is often compromised with deep rooted biases and personal references. In my opinion the best way to approach ufology is to identify the biases and approach the matter through the lens of physics and the structure of matter.

I read that book some years ago. Mack really buys into the idea that aliens are wonderful spiritual beings here to help us. That there is a spiritual dimension to all this is beyond doubt but these beings exploit people and are not the benevolent beings Mack portrayed them to be, as evidenced by Bud Hopkins work. Everything they do is to serve their own agenda by exploiting human beings.

It's hard to say what the true intentions of these beings are.

Mack's work is insightful though. It presents a detailed and consistent account. However at the end of the day any conclusions have to draw on a lot of speculation.

Originally posted by UncleVinnys
Well, you've seem to hit on the Mother Load of abduction analysis that it took me 20 years to fathom.

Yes, Mack's works are the rare breath of fresh air in the entire UFO phenomenon.
His interviews with abductees leads to the conclusion that somehow some of these
abductees have agreed to the encounter. They meet their group mind.

Yes, that's one of the themes that took me surprise. Mack definitely covers the traumatic experiences that seem rather cruel and ethically wrong. But, it seems like almost every case leads to a resolution where they feel some sort of connection to the aliens, or something much deeper like an agreement as you said, and a state of Oneness - even if they're still really pissed about the whole encounter!

Originally posted by UncleVinnys
The abduction experience is very close to the study of Near-Death Experiences, where
the conscious mind seems to transcend not just the body but the entire physical framework
that most of us take for granted as being "reality."

Both NDEs and Mack's insights reveal a whole new cosmology:
That we are indeed spirits undergoing a temporary and limited experience in a 3-dimensional
world. Our true nature it seems is a powerful soul that in essence slows down and forgets
in order to experience a material life.

This same theme can be seen in many spiritual works, Buddhism, and the literature
of Dolores Cannon (Convoluted Universe), Michael Newton (Journey of Souls) and others.
It will be interesting to read further.

Thanks for your post.

I think that is the other part of the phenomenon that intrigued me. Was already very familiar and fascinated by NDEs and the parallels were pretty neat to see. In fact, one of the abductees mack mentions was an experiencer and an NDE'r and noted the similarities as far as the consciousness expanding aspect of both. IIRC, he actually said the abduction was the more powerful experience!

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the post, thanks ;-)

Originally posted by g2v12

Nice post. I enjoy this subject. Nevertheless its a discussion that has been extremely redacted in the unquantified nature of the people and their stories. So, on one side we have these folks who tell their stories, and then we have the other people (investigators, authors, etc.) who publish them for profit.

Yes, I have heard some fishy things about Budd Hopkins. My next goal was to look into him (both sides of the arguments) and see what's there.

It's my understanding he seeked out Mack, though, in order to find somebody better qualified to not only explore the phenomenon, but better able to help the folks experience it. Genuine concern? Don't know ... but why else seek out Mack, if he was only in it for profit?

Originally posted by g2v12

I think that the best researched story was that of Barney and Betty Hill. It was well documented by a well known physician who understood the fine points of regression. Betty always kept her dress, which was torn when by her account, she was forced to enter into the examination room. Barney's old shoes bore the marks of having been dragged from his car to the ship. The story was new and unpolluted. I think it was also significant that a few months after the Hill's story broke, Betty accepted an invitation to spend a weekend camping in the New Hampshire countryside with a group of scientists, who asked her many questions about her experience. This was not published in the book however.

Yes, that's a story I defienitelty need to look into. I keep hearing about it and now that I've been sucked into all this it's finally time to check it out. Thanks for the reminder!

Originally posted by EnPassant
I read that book some years ago. Mack really buys into the idea that aliens are wonderful spiritual beings here to help us. That there is a spiritual dimension to all this is beyond doubt but these beings exploit people and are not the benevolent beings Mack portrayed them to be, as evidenced by Bud Hopkins work. Everything they do is to serve their own agenda by exploiting human beings.

No doubt, it definitely seems like exploitation and morally ambiguous on the part of the aliens, at the very best. But, seems more complex than that too. Throughout many of the cases the abductees report a deep loving concern coming from the aliens during the experience. It's almost like what is immoral to us is no big deal to them. I don't know how being more advanced spiritually could ever make something like what they do okay, but is it possible. I don't know. It's very strange. But, the spiritual aspect seems like ti can be denied, as it ends up coming from almost every abductee that has worked through the issues somewhat.

I guess like liquidsmoke says, the best we can do is speculate, at this point.

you might be interested in Dr. Strassman's book - dmt, the spirit molecule. many of the volunteers had experiences very similar to alien abduction.

www.rickstrassman.com...

Originally posted by knoxie
you might be interested in Dr. Strassman's book - dmt, the spirit molecule. many of the volunteers had experiences very similar to alien abduction.

www.rickstrassman.com...

What's interesting to me is that the volunteers insisted that these were real entities. Strassman also suggests that these were real entities because he had no other way to explain this. So there are many parallels. Also, d-m-t is a naturally occurring substance and is produced naturally in our bodies. Also interesting is that the chemical structure is closely related to melatonin which is a hormone related to sleep. Most abductions occur at night when people are sleeping.

To me this seems highly suggestive that these are related real or not.

I just wonder why so many people are focused on denying any kind of spiritual reality?!
They want to reduce everything to a cold, heartless, chemical God that can be defined with mathematical formulas.
Whoops! Sorry! That don't work!

Instead, as many of the abductees claim, there is a connection with these entities.
Some even claim to BE these foreign entities, and they have decided to incarnate
as human to help bridge that gap. We are witnessing an awakening

The awaking to this connection comes in many forms, such as dreams, meditative visions, near-death experiences, and religious epiphanies. These represent portals, or rips in the veil that blocks our awareness of the real world.

"Some see it suddenly on point of death, and rise to teach it. Others find it in experience that is not of this world, which shows them that the world does not exist because what they behold must be the truth, and yet it clearly contradicts the world."
- Course in Miracles, Lesson 132.

reply to post by EthanT

I think it's all mostly gobbledegook. People want a supernatural reality because they do not want to accept mortal death, just as they want to believe in divine justice and eternal life. Humans deal with a full variety of limitations placed on them and it's tremendously tempting to employ the use of fantasy and delusion to arrive at a conclusion that's less bothersome and more friendly towards us.

BUT nobody knows, do they? I can look around me at my physical experience and I can say that - given the knowledge I have - this probably is all there is and no further explanation is needed. Science can explain our physical existence without needing BS. That doesn't make it final, of course. There're lots of alternatives, if evidence isn't required to confirm them. It may very well be that there're physical/non-physical ET's visiting. And by physical/nonphysical I mean that they have transcended some or many of the physical limitations we deal with. We ourselves might not even be fully physical. Reality might be more than we deduce from the information we have. Then again, God might be real and heaven and hell might be real too. Allah might be real. Santa Claus might exist somewhere out there. Thus, one can see the need to turn to science for reasonable explanations for our existence. Still, one should not eliminate alternatives even if they cannot be falsifiable.

I always leave the door open a crack because I know we're not infallible.

Just the other day I was looking at a honeycomb shelf with christmas orgnaments and I saw a dozen reflections of my face in them. I remember thinking "Something causes this." I get the same feeling when I think a thought and then think "I think, therefore I AM." And then I think that if I AM then I must have come from something else. Thus, I can conclude that there's a greater reality.

reply to post by UncleVinnys

I just wonder why so many people are focused on denying any kind of spiritual reality?!
They want to reduce everything to a cold, heartless, chemical God that can be defined with mathematical formulas.

I'm not following. We are made up of chemistry and math. Humans have been ingesting chemicals to communicate with god ever since there were humans. Are you saying that people who ingest chemicals are not experiencing spiritual reality?

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by UncleVinnys

 

I just wonder why so many people are focused on denying any kind of spiritual reality?!
They want to reduce everything to a cold, heartless, chemical God that can be defined with mathematical formulas.

I'm not following. We are made up of chemistry and math. Humans have been ingesting chemicals to communicate with god ever since there were humans. Are you saying that people who ingest chemicals are not experiencing spiritual reality?

There is the "filter model" of the brain/mind that imply chemicals may open the mind/consciousness to other layers of reality that are very much real - i.e. spiritual, if one wants to call it that.

Bernardo Kastrup: Disembodied trippers

Also interesting is the researchers' observation that the highest de-activations of the brain occurred in areas associated to what we normally call "ego functions;" namely, the default-mode network. This is consistent with the age-old idea that the ego prevents us from seeing reality as it truly is; from perceiving the unity and transcendence of conscious experience. As I wrote earlier in this blog, I like the metaphor of the brain as a whirlpool of consciousness, which localizes consciousness like a whirlpool localizes the water of a stream. When I read this part of their paper, I couldn't help but visualize the de-activation of the ego functions as analogous to someone inserting one's hand in a whirlpool, disrupting the "loopy" flow that maintains it, and thereby allowing the water molecules originally trapped in it to escape.

Original study:
Neural correlates of the psychedelic state as determined by fMRI studies with psilocybin

These results strongly imply that the subjective effects of psychedelic drugs are caused by decreased activity and connectivity in the brain's key connector hubs, enabling a state of unconstrained cognition.

an NDE would just be a complete shutting off of the filter (i.e. brain) allowing total "unconstrained cognition"

I don't need to argue my point - about there being unseen worlds.
That's not my job.
I find that people who do not believe in anything but a materialistic world are eventually
given the experience they need, be it a deja vu episode, a visit from a deceased relative,
a spiritual epiphany, an alien encounter, or whatever.

Fortunately, I've had several in my lifetime, and it makes me sad for the godless
materialists - so well educated and intelligent, yet blind to the blessings of life - who
are "religiously" worshiping their stone deity of chemicals and trying to push their
cosmically bankrupt world view onto the rest of us.

Blessings to you - - you will either be right or happy, but not both.
I await the day when the light dawns and you think back to that weirdo on ATS
who was so gently trying to enlighten you.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

Originally posted by knoxie
you might be interested in Dr. Strassman's book - dmt, the spirit molecule. many of the volunteers had experiences very similar to alien abduction.

www.rickstrassman.com...

What's interesting to me is that the volunteers insisted that these were real entities. Strassman also suggests that these were real entities because he had no other way to explain this. So there are many parallels. Also, d-m-t is a naturally occurring substance and is produced naturally in our bodies. Also interesting is that the chemical structure is closely related to melatonin which is a hormone related to sleep. Most abductions occur at night when people are sleeping.

To me this seems highly suggestive that these are related real or not.

It is simply untrue that most abductions occur at night when people are sleeping! That's just a myth spread by debunkers who believe that the experience is one of sleep paralysis or some disturbance in one's brain biochemistry. Ask any serious researcher into the abduction phenomenon and he or she will tell you that most abductions occur during the day. Only those involving children occur mostly at night. The very fact that a high percentage of cases happen during wakefulness in the absence of any medical circumstances that could have precipitated a surge of D-M-T totally discredits the theory that abductions are caused by it, quite apart from the well-known physical after-effects of scoop marks, radiation burns and metallic artifacts that some abductees claim were left inside their bodies, all of which cannot be explained if the abduction experience were hallucinatory.

reply to post by micpsi


I don't believe their experiences are hallucinatory. unfortunately I can't really discuss here because of the t&c's, but I am a believer..

Originally posted by micpsi


It is simply untrue that most abductions occur at night when people are sleeping! That's just a myth spread by debunkers who believe that the experience is one of sleep paralysis or some disturbance in one's brain biochemistry.

To be honest, before Mack's book that was my favorite interpretation , so I guess I fell for the myth too. But, Mack pretty much slammed that one down, so I specifically covered that in my blog post, where I quote him:

Abduction experiences can be differentiated from traumatic reactions to simple sleep paralysis for several reasons. First, a portion of abduction experiences occur in the waking state, during the day, and these daytime reports show clear similarities to reports that occur at night. Second, experiencers report similar details and similar procedures that go unreported in the media, and these details are present in the reports of individuals across cultures and among many young children. Sleep paralysis cannot account for these common details. Third, experiencers show similar phobic reactions to events and material symbolically linked to abduction material that are not linked to sleep alone. Fourth, in experiencers, insomnia, anxiety symptoms, and nightmares tend to resolve with the conscious processing of abduction material, which would seem unlikely if the traumatic experience were not directly linked to the material. Although it is possible that abduction reports are the result of some altered-state experience, the common symbolic structure of the reports and their links to symptoms of anxiety require an explanation other than sleep paralysis" (2)

He pretty much shot down all the other conventional explanations: fantasy prone personality, mass hysteria, hallucination, masochistic tendencies, etc.

reply to post by micpsi

It is simply untrue that most abductions occur at night when people are sleeping! That's just a myth spread by debunkers who believe that the experience is one of sleep paralysis or some disturbance in one's brain biochemistry.

It seems to me that most abduction stories start with "I went to bed..." I know of ones that don't start like that but it still doesn't exclude brain chemistry. In fact there is no way to exclude brain chemistry or hallucinations. Absolutely no way. That is until something is produced that can prove that it was more than human brain activity.

reply to post by EthanT

He pretty much shot down all the other conventional explanations: fantasy prone personality, mass hysteria, hallucination, masochistic tendencies, etc.

Is that what you read? I think he left it open for some other possible unknown psychological phenomenon.

Although it is possible that abduction reports are the result of some altered-state experience, the common symbolic structure of the reports and their links to symptoms of anxiety require an explanation other than sleep paralysis" (2)

Ok. They are not all sleep paralysis. Lots of the ones I read about here seem to be sleep paralysis. Mostly because people aren't aware of what it is. There is A LOT of brain chemistry going on at night and a there is a hundred ways someone can hallucinate during waking hours.