The Trayvon conversation that ended my 8 year friendship.

reply to post by sonnny1


It won't. If you read his last line again, he's calling me a racist. My black friend of eight years is calling me a racist.

Originally posted by luciddream
This is why i don't discuss Religion, Political Party or What i think about the current event in real life.

Above Top Secret isn't real life. So I keep all that discussion here.
Out in the real world ... it doesn't work like that.
In some ways, ATS is more 'honest' than reality.

reply to post by havok


He claimed he wasn't willing to discuss it but he kept coming back for more. As for the anger, ya, I admit I lost my cool but the difference between ATS and friends debates, I don't care about anonymous posters so I don't get as riled up. My buddy has always been level headed so it came as more of a shock and personal than anything.

reply to post by havok


double post

reply to post by FlySolo


Well, his "opinion" is just that.

Sad, but let em hate.........

reply to post by FlySolo


You are both to blame for that one my friend, your fatal mistake was thinking you could change someones opinion. You can't. You can give them the information they would need to change their minds, but you can't force them to view it the way you view it.

It really is that simple, you failed after the 3rd reply, because it was clearly evident that your friend, or former friend, had much more invested in this than you do, his whole world view NEEDS this to be about race, you won't change that for him, and shouldn't even try.

An un-armed kid died and he didn't have to, you know this, your friend knows it, you should have just given up after that.

But don't stop being friends, you can easily get past this little tiff. If I can remain friends with someone who ardently supports israel 100% and continually states that ALL MUSLIMS want to murder every jew on earth, you can remain friends with him.

Zimmerman shouldn't have continued to follow the kid. Trayvon shouldn't have returned to accost him. To me, neither of them qualify under stand your ground, but I wasn't on the jury, and I didn't get to examine all of the evidence.

And guess what? Neither did you, or your friend. It's time we move on, this bickering is exactly what THEY want, that's why they've distorted it from day one.

reply to post by FlySolo

It won't. If you read his last line again, he's calling me a racist. My black friend of eight years is calling me a racist.

Your friend is the racist here, unable to see any of the facts that don't fall in line with it being a racially motivated attack. Sure, maybe zimmerman started following him because he was a black kid wandering around a gated community, maybe, we'll never know.

But your friend is the racist here, not you, don't forget that.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Zimmerman shouldn't have continued to follow the kid. Trayvon shouldn't have returned to accost him.

I originally thought 'manslaughter' because Zimmerman followed Martin. But then during the trial it came out that Zimmerman was legally allowed to follow AND that the dispatch had said 'tell us what else he does'. It all came down to whoever threw the first punch ... which we'll never know. So manslaughter went out the window. It's just the way it is. I'm back to ... 'two people with 'attitudes' met on a dark stormy night in Florida and bad things happened when they both made bad decisions'.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


The "other" is the racist, depending on who's side you pick on the case.

People that see Zimmerman as the aggressor will see "how they heck can someone support this murderer"

People that see Trayvon as the assessor will see "how can someone not see that Trayvon is the aggressor"


Both are right and wrong depending on how you see it. if everyone see the same way, we will not have any debate.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

I'm back to ... 'two people with 'attitudes' met on a dark stormy night in Florida and bad things happened when they both made bad decisions'.

Exactly.

Originally posted by FlySolo
You come on here trolling and talking about your version of the truth which to me I find absolutely revolting.

That about sums up both sides of this debate. There is only the TRUTH, not each side's version of the truth. Each side is clinging to "their" truth, one side a lot more in my opinion, but both do. People seem to selectively remember things, it doesn't help that the mainstream media and politicians keep contributing to this selective memory with their statements that aren't 100% accurate. That's what this has really exposed. Violence and Racism happen on both ends of the spectrum, yet both sides are in personal denial about those issues. It's always "the other sides" fault.


Both sides are somewhat in denial about both TM and GZ. TM wasn't a gang banging thug and GZ wasn't some hate filled bigot, intent on killing a black kid. They were both human with warts and all on them and both made stupid decisions that night. It literally isn't a black and white issue, it's muddled in greys, there are no heros, nor devils, save for those who seek to benefit from this series of unfortunate events.

Critical thinking is something that is not desired out of the masses, otherwise things would not be the way they are. The masses need to be conditioned and that's what they have been.

You did ok with the debate, towards the end you started to lose your composure, that shouldn't have happened. Doesn't matter that the other person lost it too, you should have taken the high ground. Just my opinion.

reply to post by FlySolo


You claim that he was a good friend of yours since years back and you keep dissing him and playing a wise ass on facebook. At least that is how your sanctimonious replies look to me.

He might be straightforward and harsh, but you sound contrived and false, playing with his responses to gain points from the other readers on that thread

This has nothing to do with the zimmerman case. It has to do with you and your inability to be a good friend with someone that has been your friend for years, Good honest friendship doesn´t break over a simple media circus a la the zimmerman trial.

Pathetic if you ask me.

Just my two cents in this shindig.

reply to post by pavil


I tried to stay on higher ground and even went to sleep without responding to see how I felt the next day. I decided to take the high road by not responding anymore.

reply to post by johncarter


I disagree. When he told me to pull my head out of my ass, I couldn't take a "god damn hint" and insinuated I'm shallow enough to blame rape victims is when things got testy. Those aren't things you just say to someone you're friends with. Hmmph guess we weren't really friends after all.

reply to post by FlySolo



It's all good.

See the both of you are a case study as to how supposedly civil people, friends even, can turn ugly towards each other in a confrontation. Things escalate quickly.

From my point of view, the conversation stopped being about the Trayvon debate long before its end. In your place, I would send him an apology for my temper and loss of composure, even though his remarks were more hurtful by comparison. Be the big person and make the first move, so to speak. There's no guarantee he'll respond though... from my experience, length of friendship has no bearing on just how cleanly one party will cut the whole thing off.
I wish you luck regardless....

reply to post by EllaMarina


I wouldn't feel sincere about an apology. I'm still pissed. Besides, I'm not exactly sure I want to be friends anyway after seeing how quickly he lashed out. I think the point of this thread is to show a real-life example of how we are being divided anyway. Not to make amends.

Originally posted by sonnny1
Friends can help each other. A true friend is someone who lets you have total freedom to be yourself - and especially to feel. Or, not feel. Whatever you happen to be feeling at the moment is fine with them. That's what real love amounts to - letting a person be what he really is. ~ Jim Morrison


Have to ask yourself what kind of "friend" this person really was, and what were you to them.........

I think that is why our deep selves our morals and values and major things needs to be the same to be REAL friends in the first place, because if someone feels something that really hurts your sensibilities it is difficult to overcome unless it never comes up at all.

We all seem to have deep feelings on the subject of this trial, I think it is that kind of pivotal thing being using to stir the pot.. The only "SMART' thing here is to just stop! No more offering a point of view and no more deriding the other side as 'stupid" as some on here are doing.

I had to register just to comment on this thread.
That conversation just confirms that what the media and Obama is trying to do is working. This administration is one of the most divisive ones that I have seen and I think its all according to some plan.
I dont get in debates about this topic, it just a waste of my time.
I do however, carry my pistol in my truck when I go anywhere, not because im paranoid and not because im angry, I do it because there are people like your "former" friend all over the place and I am not going to be caught out at the store with my son and be confronted by one of these people that lets the anger get the best of them, not without my gun.
Im not to worried though, these "protesters" know better than to riot down here in South Texas

Ill punch you in the nose..

Sometimes it's better to bite your lip.